jefferson county

[THE_BOP!!!!! 0]

can anyone get the seeds for the jeferson county tournament??/

[southern135 0]

the coaches are getting together tonight at 7 to do all that

[thegreatgatsby 23]

103

1  Elliott Martin (SENA)

2  Myron Bradbury (TRIN)

3  Tommy Warren (FERN)

4  Jake Maupin (FAIR)

5  Bryon Hoskinson (STX)

112

1  Jeff Warra (SENA)

2  Dan Smith (TRIN)

3  Daniel Weixler (FERN)

4  Nick Reichmuth (PRP)

5  James Severs (STX)

119

1  John Chiu (SENA)

2  Nick Norwood (STX)

3  Caleb Wood (FERN)

4  Jacob Barton (TRIN)

5  Jacob Colston (PRP)

125

1  Daniel Fuller (SENA)

2  Grant Ohlman (TRIN)

3  Corey Mills (PRP)

4  Crayton McCain (MOOR)

5  Alan Marksbury (DOSS)

6  Daniel Miller (STX)

7  Jim Simmons (FERN)

8  Kendrick Jones (BALL)

130

1  Derek Branch (FERN)

2  Paul Marks (EAST)

3  Mike Seeders (FAIR)

4  Marc Blanford (SOUT)

5  Kenny Watkins (TRIN)

6  Steven Willbanks (MOOR)

135

1  Kevin Stewart (FERN)

2  Blake Kraft (EAST)

3  Zack Poulton (SENA)

4  Austen Ringo (FAIR)

140 

1  Malcolm Jackson (FERN)

2  Ben Case (TRIN)

3  John Thomas (CENT)

4  Justin Johnston (MOOR)

5  Ben Edwards (VALL)

6  Justin Davis (EAST)

7  Cole Grant (STX)

8  Ricky Wright (SENA)

9  Tyler Ford (MANU)

145

1  Ben Barger (FERN)

2  Cory Kress (STX)

3  Russ Whatley (TRIN)

4  Dusty STengel (PRP)

5  Sean Pepper (SENA)

6  Ryan Clark (EAST)

7  Hector Rosado (DESA)

152

1  Brad Hitchings (TRIN)

2  Chip Condon (STX)

3  Howard Brim (BALL)

4  Kevin Snyder (DESA)

5  Cody Mann (FERN)

160

1  John Wolsiefer (FERN)

2  Dakoda Choate (PRP)

3  Lofton Wright (SENA)

4  David George (STX)

5  James Schneider (MOOR)

171

1  Ben Rupp (EAST)

2  John Florence (TRIN)

3  Matt Bergamini (STX)

4  Ethan Dunn (MOOR)

5  Kurt Waller (FERN)

6  Alex Meadsd (IROQ)

7  Chase Lloyd (DESA)

189

1  Josh Lewis (TRIN)

2  Joe Raleigh (VALL)

3  John French (DESA)

4  Kyle Hardin (FERN)

5  Ben Hagan (SENA)

215

1  Jordan Dockery (SENA)

2  Deon Chaney (FERN)

3  Travis Meisner (SOUT)

4  Derek Nickel (DOSS)

5  Shawn Wentworth (DESA)

285

1  John Wise (DESA)

2  Zac Purol (STX)

3  James Payne (IROQ)

4  Bebop Smith (VALL)

5  Torrence Williams (MANU)

6  Cody Hall (SENA)

[gatorade12 0]

caleb wood is wrestling

[southern135 0]

is this seeding are something???

[Jo Momma 0]

Overall, the seedings look pretty good.  Coach Coomes and his "seeding commitee", or should we say him and his two coaching buddies, didn't do bad.  Does anybody know who the select people he takes advice from really are.  Judging by the "seedings" it looks like Coach Latisha at Southern is one of them.  If these are the seedings, how in the world is Ringo seeded at 135 when he's not even in the top two for his own Region.  Dockery got messed over.  No way should Meisner be ranked above Nickel.  That means a tough semi match for Jordan.  Deon gets a walk into the finals.  What a joke!  But that's okay.  Derek was going to have to beat Deon and Jordan anyway, so instead Deon then Jordan, it looks it will be Jordan then Deon.  And if he by chance loses in the semis, he will meet Travis for 3rd place.  Good luck Travis, you sure in heck are going to need it!  Let the fun begin.

[Charger Coach 14]

I'm a little upset that all of the Jefferson County coaches did not have an opportunity to participate in the rankings meeting.  If Coach Coomes wants to do his committee at his own Big East tournament, then that's fine.  That's his tournament.  However, the Jefferson Co. Tourn of Champions is NOT his tournament.  It belongs to all of the Jeff Co. teams and as such all Jeff. Co. coaches should have at least a minor say in the seedings.  I'm sure that the "reasoning" is going to be that it would take to long and their would be too much disagreement, but if we're going to put on this large two day tournament, then do it right.  For next year, I recommend that all coaches be invited to attend a seeding meeting and be given a ballot.  If you don't show up, then you can't complain about the seedings.  They should be given a list of all the wrestlers that will participate at each weight class and do their own seeding from 1 to 8.  Remember, the rosters for each team had to be turned in by 1 p.m today.  After all coaches have completed their ballots, collect them and tally the votes.  Give each vote a value.  For example, if a kid is ranked number one, then he gets eight points, second gets 7 points and so on.  The kid in each weight class with the highest number of votes gets the # 1 seed and so on.  If there is a tie for any position, then go to head-to-head competition.  If they haven't wrestled yet or have a series split, then common opponents.  The state of Kentucky's wrestling community consists of more than just Coach Coomes.  I don't think he sees it that way however.  With all of that being said, Good luck to all participants tomorrow.  I hope everyone competes at their best and ends the weekend unhurt.

[thegreatgatsby 23]

I'm a little upset that all of the Jefferson County coaches did not have an opportunity to participate in the rankings meeting.  If Coach Coomes wants to do his committee at his own Big East tournament, then that's fine.  That's his tournament.  However, the Jefferson Co. Tourn of Champions is NOT his tournament.  It belongs to all of the Jeff Co. teams and as such all Jeff. Co. coaches should have at least a minor say in the seedings.  I'm sure that the "reasoning" is going to be that it would take to long and their would be too much disagreement, but if we're going to put on this large two day tournament, then do it right.  For next year, I recommend that all coaches be invited to attend a seeding meeting and be given a ballot.  If you don't show up, then you can't complain about the seedings.  They should be given a list of all the wrestlers that will participate at each weight class and do their own seeding from 1 to 8.  Remember, the rosters for each team had to be turned in by 1 p.m today.  After all coaches have completed their ballots, collect them and tally the votes.  Give each vote a value.  For example, if a kid is ranked number one, then he gets eight points, second gets 7 points and so on.  The kid in each weight class with the highest number of votes gets the # 1 seed and so on.  If there is a tie for any position, then go to head-to-head competition.  If they haven't wrestled yet or have a series split, then common opponents.  The state of Kentucky's wrestling community consists of more than just Coach Coomes.  I don't think he sees it that way however.  With all of that being said, Good luck to all participants tomorrow.  I hope everyone competes at their best and ends the weekend unhurt.

The seeding was done by comitee.  The comitee consisted of 8 very respected and qualified coaches in the county.  Coach Coomes was NOT on this comitee.  So don't put the blame on him.  And as for your seeding meeting suggestion,  That's CRAZY!!! Do you really think that system would be any better?  Seeding meetings are simple.  Winning record, Head-to-head, Common opponents.  You usually don't have to go past that.  If you do, usually we just flip a coin.  The wrestler still has to wrestle the match, not his SEED. 

Yes seeding meetings do take long time if every coach is there argueing.  Comitee is the way to go especially for in season tournaments.  Seeding this tournament by comittee, Took all of 45 min.  As opposed to 2 1/2 -3 hours for last years meeting.

As I said before, the kids still have to wrestle.  Not the number in front of their name.  Good luck to all the wrestlers and coaches this weekend.  Lets have a fun and SAFE tournament.

[Charger Coach 14]

So you don't think that all coaches deserve a say in the seedings?  To me that's CRAZY!  O.K., so the committee consisted of 8 very respected coaches.  I'm sure for the most part I would hold them in high regard the same as you do.  However, just because they are an "elite coach" and the other coaches aren't, doesn't mean that what they say should far outweigh anything else any other coach has to say.  To say that is just insane.  For the most part, all coaches put in a lot of time during the season.  Long practices, long Wednesday nights, all day tournaments on Saturday, and none of that includes the off the mat issues and problems and for what?  $1000 to $2000 dollars a year to coach?  No, they do it because they love the sport and care about their kids.  To me, that demands respect and deserves the right to have a say in the "seedings".  And why wouldn't that system work.  Just about all coaches will vote the same as the respected coaches will.  They're not stupid.  But when it comes to seedings from position 5 through 8, that's where the difference is.  Don't tell me seedings don't matter there!  I will agree that the wrestlers still have to wrestle.  You're absolutely right about that.  But just let me give you an example of why it matters.  Let's say a kid gets an 8 seed at 103.  That means if everything plays out at 103, the way it should, in the quarters, he would have to face Elliot Martin.  Where as, if he had the 5 seed, he would have to face Jake Maupin in the quarters.  I take nothing away from Jake.  He's a good wrestler and an even better kid but there's a difference.  Would you like you're chances to advance to the semis better against Elliot Martin or Jake Maupin?  Another thing, if you say seedings don't matter, let's just not have them.  Let's just do a blind draw.  No, seedings do matter.  Would you want to tell the loser of the Dakoda Chaote and John Wolfseifer match that even though they should have met in the finals, they can finish no higher than 5th b/c they had to meet in the 1st round on a blind draw?  I don't think you would and neither would I.  the whole point of seedings is to get your kids the highest seed possible to try and get them the easiest route possible to a higher placing.  Finally, I apologize to Coach Coomes.  If he was not part of the committee, that's my mistake and I'm truly sorry. Gatsby, I truly respect your opinion and I mean no disrespect to you with anything I say.  I truly hope you feel the same.  Good luck to you this weekend.

   

   

[grappler-of-old 44]

    I'm not going to try and speak for Gatsby, but the point that seeding does not matter is because this tournament does not matter.

    tournaments leading up to the Regional tourney are exhibition/practice matches.  As a coach I supported the blind draw method in all tourneys but the region.  The kids that I have/had that are better than average wrestlers need to compete with the toughest kids anyway.  Why would you want them to have a cakewalk into the finals.  make them earn their keep, get them prepared for the post season and the gruelling three day state tourney. 

    At the seeding meetings that I attend/attended the only reason for me to be there was because other coaches believed it important.  If there was a discussion with one of my wrestlers I'd give the higher seed to the other wrestler. 

    As Gatsby said the matches are done on the mat not the coaches room during a seeding meeting.  The Regional tourney is the only important seed meeting.  Even then it only matters to the 3rd and 4th best kids so that they do qualify for state and don't hit the 1 and 2 before placement rounds.

[Ranger123 43]

I come down on the side that the seeding is somewhat important.

grappler - using the blind draw could really hurt a kids record.  For example your #3 or #4 kid could always draw the #1 (not likely, but possible) and get destroyed and then get a poor draw in the consis and go 1-2 or 2-2 every weekend.  That near .500 record will be tough to seed at region, unless you have a clear head-to-head advantage.  And you have to admit that a blind draw can lead to some pretty boring finals matches.

As for this particular meeting, I have participated in the Jeff Co seeding meeting a few times.  It's usually not bad.  A committee works, but as we have found on this site, no one knows all of the head-to-head results (even when I try to track down everything).  So having all of the coaches there that want to participate can be helpful to accurately seed the tournament.

[NOHS_wrestling 1]

Good points Gatsby, Dragon, Grap and Ranger.

From the coaches perspective, seeding meetings are important as we always want the best for our kids.  That being said, it's not always practical for every coach to be there.  Take me for example.  I coach everday, long practices, and have a 45-60 minute drive home every night, same with my main assistant coach.  We both have babies at home.  So this weekend we goto Conner.  We fax our information in, and trust the other coaches to do right by it.  Even if it's a closer tourney to home, sometimes even for 'love of the sport' it's hard to justify practicing till 6 or 7, then going to a meeting at let's say Seneca that lasts until 10 or 11, then go home, get back up at 430-5, and blow the full saturday.  Blind draw or not, kids need to wrestle the best competition they can get.  All these tournaments are exhibitions until regionals, but ranger's right, kid's feel strongly about their records.  However, a good wrestler will tell you they're record means nothing if they're not beating good kids.  I have one wrestler right not that is 18-4, and another that is 16-10.  I know for a fact that 16-10 is much more proud of his season because at his weight, at least 11 people he has wrestled are in the top 15 of the state.  He could care less that his record looks 'mediocre' because he knows his matchs are good. 

What it comes down to is wrestling, seeding gives guys a better way to the final result, but in my opinion as both a coach and competitor has been and always will be, to go through the best to be the best.

Also, a secondary note, Coach Coomes is a great coach, and has done alot of good for KY wrestling.  Let's not take every opportunity to bash him.  People make it out like he is stacking the deck against everyone else, and that is not the case.  Let's keep it positive.

[water the flowers 0]

Is this all the Kids that are going to be at the Jeff Co tournament? It looks kind of weak with some classes only having 5 or six wrestlers or is that just the ones that are seeded? Is there a reason for this to be a 2 day tournament?

[Charger Coach 14]

First off, to the question that water the flowers had, no this is not all the wrestlers.  It is only the wrestlers that are seeded.  I'm not for sure exactly how many wrestlers are in each weight class, but I would venture to say that at least all weight classes will have 12 to 16 wrestlers and most classes will probably have pig tails to wrestle into the 16 wrestler bracket.  If that is not correct, and someone knows for sure please let all of us know.  Second of all, NOHS Wrestler, Ranger, Grappler, and yes Gatsby, all very good points regardless if I don't necessarily see eye to eye with your point of view.  Ultimately, that is the whole point of this particular discussion board.  I believe the statement was said by Ranger in an earlier post that the point of this forum in to "speak up not shut up".  I guess I'm speaking up and if someone thinks differently, I completely respect their opinion.  Regardless of what is said on the forum, or whether we agree or disagree, I think I can honestly say we all agree on something.  We all want the sport of wrestling to thrive in the state of Kentucky and we all want what is best for all the kids not just our own.  That being said, yes I agree everything it is settled on the mat not in the coaches room.  However, if all things are equal between two wrestlers, and it comes down to those two being seeded or not in their respective regionals, the results of some of these tournaments carry a lot of weight at Regional seedings, and usually the better the seed in these tournaments will help wrestlers to go deeper into the competition and place higher.  Essentially, with seeds, the matches will get tougher later in the tournament.  With a blind draw, matches could be tougher at the beginning or the end.  Either way, most wrestlers will have tough matches on the day.  In response to NOHS wrestler, I completely understand that the "love of the sport" sometimes is outweighed by other aspects in life (long practices, family at home, long drives to meets and practices, etc.)  However, I do believe that seeding meetings should be open to all coaches.  If you don't want to attend or are unable to attend, that's another subject.  However, I do think they should at least be offered the opportunity!  Just for my own knowledge, which eight coaches comprised the seeding committee?

[wrest65 0]

Overall, the seedings look pretty good.  Coach Coomes and his "seeding commitee", or should we say him and his two coaching buddies, didn't do bad.  Does anybody know who the select people he takes advice from really are.  Judging by the "seedings" it looks like Coach Latisha at Southern is one of them.  If these are the seedings, how in the world is Ringo seeded at 135 when he's not even in the top two for his own Region.  Dockery got messed over.  No way should Meisner be ranked above Nickel.  That means a tough semi match for Jordan.  Deon gets a walk into the finals.  What a joke!  But that's okay.  Derek was going to have to beat Deon and Jordan anyway, so instead Deon then Jordan, it looks it will be Jordan then Deon.  And if he by chance loses in the semis, he will meet Travis for 3rd place.  Good luck Travis, you sure in heck are going to need it!  Let the fun begin.

I am not sure what would make you imply that Southern is unfairly seeded...they have two wrestlers seeded. As for 135 - H. Durden is not wrestling this tournament due to an injury he sustained at Woodford County (and then tried to wrestle a match on Wednesday).  I have not heard much regarding Ringo from Fairdale there has been much talk about Seeders and if he is going to wrestle 130 or 135.  But with that being said - it seems that the formula has explained is fine - there is never going to be time when everyone agree with the seeding - it is just like the rankings - we will just have to see how it plays out over the weekend.

[Charger Coach 14]

Wrest 65, I agree with you.  Jo Momma, if you want to bash coaches, that is your business.  They are adults and I'm sure can take anything you wish to say.  However, don't bash the kids!  Please leave them out of it.  They didn't do the seeds.  All they do, is show up and wrestle who their respective bracket says they are supposed to. 

[grappler-of-old 44]

That near .500 record will be tough to seed at region, unless you have a clear head-to-head advantage. 

By the end of the year  you should have wrestled 98% of the wrestlers in your region.  That will give you the Head to head that is needed.

And you have to admit that a blind draw can lead to some pretty boring finals matches.

I'm not sure the finals are that big of a deal anymore.  The coaches, parents, and spectators that I talk to like when tourneys keep it going on all mats even through the finals. They say they can always see the good matches even if they don't happen in the finals. Everyone, or at least most know when good matches are comming up.

[thegreatgatsby 23]

Just for my own knowledge, which eight coaches comprised the seeding committee?

The 8 coaches on the Seed Comittee were:

Alan Martin (DESA)

Kirk Larsha (SOUT)

Jason Sedoris (PRP)

Jim Kraezsig (STX)

Chuck Anderson (SENA)

Ed Rudolph (TRIN)

Jeff Hall (FERN)

Ed Hamilton (EAST)

[Bodylock 0]

Regarding seeding, at last years King of the Bluegrass there was no seeding meeting

and the former coach used the previous years state placings to seed and just drew in Evansville Reitz

and New Albany.In the end 9 of 14 weight classes couldn't be wrestled for 3rd because quality kids lost early in the tourney and by the time they wrestled back thru they were at the 5 match limit.

Seeding is necessary.

[Average-Joe 0]

What possible upsets could you see occuring at the JCTC? Here are a few in my OPINION that could happen (again, these are POSSIBLE upsets, doesn't mean i'm saying it's going to happen, but have more of a chance than others)

1) Bradbury could upset Martin ( Martin is the better wrestler in my opinion, but bradbury isn't too far behind, may luck into a 5pt move or bad call or something, it's possible)

2) Smith may upset Warra ( again, i think warra is the better wrestler, but dan smith is a decent wrestler, if he remains within two or three points in the third it MAY happen, but only if smith can sprawl and sprawl well, because warra has pretty nice single leg, most seneca wrestlers do)

3) I believe Wood can upset both Norwood and Chui. ( But he'll have to turn it up because both wrestlers are tough. But i can see Wood in good health beating chui. I know he's been off the mat, but from what i hear he's been practicing for a month now without competition, so he should be ready)

4)Ohlman MAY be able to upset Fuller ( He would have to wrestle a GREAT match though, and if an upset were to happen, it wouldn't happen until the third period. Fuller in my opinion is a more heavy favorite, but it's possible)

5) at 215, i will say anybody could probably upset anybody ( i believe Dockery will probably win, But he fell to a headlock at woodford, so who knows? Dockery is the most solid wrestler though, expect fireworks in this class!)

[Ranger123 43]

Regarding seeding, at last years King of the Bluegrass there was no seeding meeting

and the former coach used the previous years state placings to seed and just drew in Evansville Reitz

and New Albany.In the end 9 of 14 weight classes couldn't be wrestled for 3rd because quality kids lost early in the tourney and by the time they wrestled back thru they were at the 5 match limit.

Seeding is necessary.

Good point.  I didn't think about the 5 match rule.  At larger tournaments that could happen often if a tough kid has to wrestle the #1 or #2 in the first round and then wrestle back.

I'm not advocating forcing all coaches to sit through a 4 hour marathon seeding meeting, but I think all should have the opportunity to voice their opinion and share their information and see how it is being done.  If coaches can't make it or don't want to come then that is their option.

[Guest wrestler92]

There are what 22 or 23 teams in Jefferson county?  Only 8 seem to be a pretty low number of people to decide.  I agree that it should be at least open to allow a coach to attend to try and get his kid maybe seeded.  Leaving it up to just those 8 is kinda risky since they may not have known all the kids or who they have wrestled this year and they will root for their own kid before they do some others.  I saw some kids on there who were seeded higher than another but were beat this year by the lower seeded kid in a head to head match.  I noticed two like this and I see why now, the coach of the higher seed kid was on the committee and the other one was not.  I have kids at home and understand it's hard, but if I didn't make it than that's up to me, I think I should at least have the opportunity to go.

[wrest65 0]

There are what 22 or 23 teams in Jefferson county?  Only 8 seem to be a pretty low number of people to decide.  I agree that it should be at least open to allow a coach to attend to try and get his kid maybe seeded.  Leaving it up to just those 8 is kinda risky since they may not have known all the kids or who they have wrestled this year and they will root for their own kid before they do some others.  I saw some kids on there who were seeded higher than another but were beat this year by the lower seeded kid in a head to head match.  I noticed two like this and I see why now, the coach of the higher seed kid was on the committee and the other one was not.   I have kids at home and understand it's hard, but if I didn't make it than that's up to me, I think I should at least have the opportunity to go.

After reviewing the responses it seems to me that there will never be a perfect way to do the seedings or the rankings.  And as to the question of one wrestler beating another head to head but being seeded lower I think there are a few situations that could explain that.  Say a wrestler loses to another early in the season and goes on to wrestler really well and is now wrestling better and winning-while the other is not wrestling to his potential-there is only so long that you can continue to hold the early loss against him.  What if a wrestler is injured in a match and loses - and then comes back, does well, but does not have the chance to wrestle the other head to head - do you forever rank him lower if he is beating higher ranked competition?  The coaches vote for the rankings in other sports and the same situation could arise but we accept it as the system- but I think with 8 coaches it would be hard for one coach to complete roll over the other 7.

[grappler-of-old 44]

Regarding seeding, at last years King of the Bluegrass there was no seeding meeting

and the former coach used the previous years state placings to seed and just drew in Evansville Reitz

and New Albany.In the end 9 of 14 weight classes couldn't be wrestled for 3rd because quality kids lost early in the tourney and by the time they wrestled back thru they were at the 5 match limit.

Seeding is necessary.

I thought about this after I made the post.  Most tourneys are not this big.  Maybe an easier way would be to just single out the top 4-8 wrestlers (depending on the size of the tourney) random draw them into the seeded spots then draw the rest out. 

The huge time it takes to seed a tourney is ridiculus.  Escpecialy if it is done after weigh ins.  By doing it this way you can finish the seed meeting in 20 minutes.

[ScareCrow152 0]

i think the way things got seeded made it more intresting and the semi finals will have great matches along with the finals...seeding doesnt really matter I mean for instance Kevin Snyder of Desales got beat 13-10 by an unranked kid from Iriquouis(spelling may be wrong) that juss shows seeding dosent matter that much maybe at bigger tournaments but not neccasarly jefferson county