Realignment and State Duals Update

[grappler-of-old 44]

I have already agreed on the 5 match rule.

However; your understanding of the body's water absorbtion process needs work.  The water starts being absorbed while still in your mouth.  Your body can be completely re-hydrated (unless totally dehydrated at a hospital level) within the 5-10 min. allowing for the 15 min. match rule to work very easily.

What I was referring to when I made that statement was that the water will stay in the stomach.  Especially if they drink a lot. Remember these are still kids and they do not understand the concept of drinking a little at a time.  They will fill their stomachs up and then end up vomiting on the mat.  Even if it only takes 10 minutes to rehydrate.  They need to get to the water. 

Example. 

Match finishes.

Talk to the coach after the match (3 minutes)

Cool down (Which many wrestlers don't do (5 minutes)

Getting to your warm ups, putting them on and getting the water (2 minutes)

Actually drinking the water (1 minute)

dehydration (10 minutes)

Preparing for the next match (10 minutes)

That is 31 minutes.  This is if the wrestler is in top notch shape and has great discipline.

The rule is made for the kids who are not in top notch shape or have great discipline.

Yes I understand they should be, but reality shows us this is not true in many cases.

All it would take is one kid getting seriously injured because of the 15 minute rule because of dehydration and if it does not kill the sport it would probably kill it in many schools.

I agree that when I wrestled I probably could have done the 15 minute rule.  And did in many freestyle tourneys.  But my guess is that close to 50% of the wrestlers could not in todays wrestling.

As a parent/coach, and a person who loves the sport I will always take the side of caution when it comes to the health of KIDS.  College can to what they want, everyone is an adult.

[Kentucky10 0]

yea like screw that, why do u want shorter time to rest? i don't get it. i still feel a lil tired after the 45 mins. lets just keep it how it is.

[385 109]

yea like screw that, why do u want shorter time to rest? i don't get it. i still feel a lil tired after the 45 mins. lets just keep it how it is.

After I sit around for a while waiting to wrestle, I get kind of sore.

[The Bear 0]

It really gets rough during state wrestling back for 3rd after loosing second round lol It seemed like I had a match every five minutes. Btw Dinbus, your claims are outrageous, next thing I know your going to argue that your Jesus Christ in the flesh. :roll:

[385 109]

It really gets rough during state wrestling back for 3rd after loosing second round lol It seemed like I had a match every five minutes. Btw Dinbus, your claims are outrageous, next thing I know your going to argue that your Jesus Christ in the flesh. :roll:

Lol. Praise him!

[dinubus 2]

It really gets rough during state wrestling back for 3rd after loosing second round lol It seemed like I had a match every five minutes. Btw Dinbus, your claims are outrageous, next thing I know your going to argue that your Jesus Christ in the flesh. :roll:

:-o, Your ignorance is becoming annoying.

BTW, the state brackets are built so that the person who stays in the winning bracket the longest has the most benefit.

[The Bear 0]

:-o, Your ignorance is becoming annoying.

Your arrogance is far worse.

[PackAttack 0]

Your arrogance is far worse.

Dare, those of us that are grown-ups to act like such, and let the foolishness go?

[wrestling4life 0]

Dare, those of us that are grown-ups to act like such, and let the foolishness go?

Your arrogance is far worse.

:-o, Your ignorance is becoming annoying.

BTW, the state brackets are built so that the person who stays in the winning bracket the longest has the most benefit.

Anyways back to the topic at hand. I would like to see the 5 match rule go away. This is a rule that I think hurts our sport. Kids in the summer wrestler more matches. Yet they are not in the same kind of shape that they are in during the season. It would also help the kids that lose that first match and work their way back through and get into the conso semi's, but they have to forfeit because of the 5 match rule. In the Region 7 tournament, this happened last year.

[grappler-of-old 44]

Anyways back to the topic at hand. I would like to see the 5 match rule go away. This is a rule that I think hurts our sport. Kids in the summer wrestler more matches. Yet they are not in the same kind of shape that they are in during the season. It would also help the kids that lose that first match and work their way back through and get into the conso semi's, but they have to forfeit because of the 5 match rule. In the Region 7 tournament, this happened last year.

1st:  As you said kids in the summer are not in the same kind of shape, nor are they in the same mental shape.  Meaning, they don't give it their all on the mat.  Most kids give 60-80% effort when they wrestlie in summer tourneys. They are there to improve on their wrestling and working on new moves.  Rarely do they use their bread and butter move in a summer tourney unless in the finals or a national tourney.

As for the 5 match rule in a tourney, that is poor planning on the tournament director.  If you know that the 5 match rule may come into play during a tourney then it needs to be made into a 2 day tourney.  I know when I wrestled we had a 2 day tourney for our district tourney (which is now called the regional tourney) and we only had 9 teams is the tourney.  Wrestle one Chanpionship round and one consolation round on Friday and finish it on Saturday.  Situation solved. 

[wrestling4life 0]

1st:  As you said kids in the summer are not in the same kind of shape, nor are they in the same mental shape.  Meaning, they don't give it their all on the mat.  Most kids give 60-80% effort when they wrestlie in summer tourneys. They are there to improve on their wrestling and working on new moves.  Rarely do they use their bread and butter move in a summer tourney unless in the finals or a national tourney.

As for the 5 match rule in a tourney, that is poor planning on the tournament director.  If you know that the 5 match rule may come into play during a tourney then it needs to be made into a 2 day tourney.  I know when I wrestled we had a 2 day tourney for our district tourney (which is now called the regional tourney) and we only had 9 teams is the tourney.  Wrestle one Chanpionship round and one consolation round on Friday and finish it on Saturday.  Situation solved. 

I understand were your coming from with makin it a 2 day tournament.  What about the teams that travel? With the way budgets are now, I would say about 90% of the teams could not afford to go some where and stay over night.

[grappler-of-old 44]

This is the regional tournament not the state tourney.  How many teams must travel?  It seems that the only region or regions having any trouble are the Lou and Lex teams and they dont't have to travel much.

[dinubus 2]

So, it wouldn't make sense to change the 5 match rule?  I mean, why cost these teams a weekend?  Not to mention the extra action at other tournaments during regular season.  Wouldn't it be nice if, at the Dragon, the person placing 7th/8th wasn't just a first round loser?  Elimination of that rule would allow for this.  You are correct that Tournament Directors could stop the 5 match rule from being a big issue, but for the purpose of all around competition for everyone, eliminating the 5 match rule would be great.  Not to mention the question of why?  Why do we need to limit wrestlers to compete in only 5 matches in one day?  Has there been an issue, since the elimination of dehydration for weight cutting, with someone being so exhausted from 5 matches that it became dangerous for them to wrestle the 6th match?

[pioneer_pride 1]

So, it wouldn't make sense to change the 5 match rule?  I mean, why cost these teams a weekend?  Not to mention the extra action at other tournaments during regular season.  Wouldn't it be nice if, at the Dragon, the person placing 7th/8th wasn't just a first round loser?  Elimination of that rule would allow for this.  You are correct that Tournament Directors could stop the 5 match rule from being a big issue, but for the purpose of all around competition for everyone, eliminating the 5 match rule would be great.  Not to mention the question of why?  Why do we need to limit wrestlers to compete in only 5 matches in one day?  Has there been an issue, since the elimination of dehydration for weight cutting, with someone being so exhausted from 5 matches that it became dangerous for them to wrestle the 6th match?

Most high school sports have some sort of limit on the amount of participation a kid can have.  Baseball I beleive there are rules on how many innings a kid can pitch in a certain number of days so they don't throw their arm out, I believe there are certain limits on Football & Basketball as well.  These rules are there obviously for safety reasons.  If there was not a rule in place, coaches would not have any idea where to draw the line.  So the national federation set the limit at 5 matches.  I wish the limit was bumped up to at least 6 matches, but it isn't.  Does there have to be an incident before this rule makes sense?  I'm sure there are lots of kids out there that could handle more than 5 matches in a day, but there are probably also some kids out there that would drop over dead.  Plus I believe I've read that the more fatigued kids are the more likely it is for injuries to occur.  So increasing the limit to 6 matches or more may increase knee injuries, and stuff like that.  I'm not a doctor or trainer by any stretch of the imagination, so maybe jpizar or someone like that could correct me if I'm wrong on the increased injuries.

[dinubus 2]

Maybe we need to change it to a 1 match rule.  I know when football players come out, they cannot even handle one full match, so we need to consider this so an incident doesn't happen.  Or, maybe it is the coaches responsibility to either get the competitors ready or bench them so they do not get hurt. 

[pioneer_pride 1]

Maybe we need to change it to a 1 match rule.  I know when football players come out, they cannot even handle one full match, so we need to consider this so an incident doesn't happen.  Or, maybe it is the coaches responsibility to either get the competitors ready or bench them so they do not get hurt. 

Coaches are no more qualified to determine how many matches a kid should wrestle in a day than the guy who changes oil in my car.  The 5 match rule was established for kids' safety.  Most coaches would not want that responsiblity either.  They're glad these people called doctors get to make that decision for them.  

[wrestling4life 0]

I know we all have gone back and fourth on the 5 match rule. I believe this is a rule that the state would NOT be able to change. I think that is a rule that is nation wide. I think the change might have something to do with coaching kids after state.

[pioneer_pride 1]

I know we all have gone back and fourth on the 5 match rule. I believe this is a rule that the state would NOT be able to change. I think that is a rule that is nation wide. I think the change might have something to do with coaching kids after state.

Agreed, and I hope you are right about coaching kids after state.

[grappler-of-old 44]

OK. The 45 minute rule is of little concern.  Most tourneys have that much time in between matches naturally.  There is no need to change this rule.  I believe it gives kids just enough time to allow their bodies to recuperate.  Mostly re-hydrating their body, and allowing them time to digest that water. 

This is also not a state rule.  Since it is something that is being considered by our state and not the Wrestling Federation the only thing it can be is.

Allowing coaches to coach their wrestlers after the season is over.  It may only pertain to large tourneys such as nationals and such.  This can be a huge jump for Ky even with these restrictions.

changing the 45 minute rule or the 5-match rule has to come from the Federation. 

Personally I would like the 5-match rule modified.  Maybe allowing a kid to wrestle 15 periods in a day.  Therefore if he wrestled 5 tough matches he is done after 5 matches.  If he receives a forfeit he can still wrestle 5 more matches.  I would recommend this rule and state that a wrestler must have at least 3 periods of eligibility to be allowed to wrestle the next match.

Exactly my point Pride.  (had to go back a few pages to find where I said this) We kind of got off track, as we usually do. 

[MatMama 0]

The rule against coaches being able to work with their team in off season should be changed. In other states, it's allowed. The high school where my kids first started wrestling was a perennial state champion team in NC. Their head coach organized their camp in the summertime, made all arrangements, and took the entire team on a bus to camp every summer. Not only did it give them great offseason training, but it really built camaraderie.

[pioneer_pride 1]

What is the rule today about what a wrestling coach can do in the off season in Kentucky?  Are they not allowed to coach AT ALL in the off season?  Or is it just during the "black out" period?

[Kentucky10 0]

What is the rule today about what a wrestling coach can do in the off season in Kentucky?  Are they not allowed to coach AT ALL in the off season?  Or is it just during the "black out" period?

dead period, im pretty sure.

[dinubus 2]

1.  What doctor made the 5 match rule? :roll:

2.  Yes, I never debated whether this was a national or state rule.  I personnaly am not for sure.  I do believe none of you are sure either.

3.  The dead period is observed by all sports in all states.

4.  I have not heard of a state that actually allowed a coach to coach in the off season of any sport.  There are always some restrictions.  Our state restricts our wrestling coaches so that they cannot show moves after season prior to the dead period, but they can run open mats and exercise the competitors.  Our state allows for showing moves after the dead period, but does not allow the use of the wrestling matts.  Yes it would be nice if this was changed as well, but our coaches should be pushing the wrestlers into other sports anyway.  So, if we make this change we are in essence asking wrestling coaches to look out only for wrestling which isn't right and can cause extra joint injuries (wrestling year around will cause this).

[ubtappin 1]

1.  What doctor made the 5 match rule? :roll:

2.  Yes, I never debated whether this was a national or state rule.  I personnaly am not for sure.  I do believe none of you are sure either.

3.  The dead period is observed by all sports in all states.

4.  I have not heard of a state that actually allowed a coach to coach in the off season of any sport.  There are always some restrictions.  Our state restricts our wrestling coaches so that they cannot show moves after season prior to the dead period, but they can run open mats and exercise the competitors.  Our state allows for showing moves after the dead period, but does not allow the use of the wrestling matts.  Yes it would be nice if this was changed as well, but our coaches should be pushing the wrestlers into other sports anyway.  So, if we make this change we are in essence asking wrestling coaches to look out only for wrestling which isn't right and can cause extra joint injuries (wrestling year around will cause this).

I think the 5 match rule is a national rule that is dictated by referees insurance or something like that.

[dinubus 2]

National rules are not dictated by ref's insurance.  It may be dictated in the ref's insurance.  I have heard that.  However, that does not make it a national rule.  Again, I am not saying that it is not a national rule.  It very likely is.