What Kentucky youth wrestling needs

[Nightmare 0]

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Dave Dean is growing the sport in Michigan with a new way philosphy and way that is sending reverberations throughout the country.

[Nightmare 0]

http://www.flowrestling.org/videos/coverage/view_video/234879-michigan-youth-wrestling-association/167538-michigans-tribal-leader

heres a better link

[dinubus 2]

I lived up in Michigan when they were big into USA wrestling.  There was a lot, lot, lot more competition when USA was focused on.  My nephews now compete in the MYWAY action up there and it doesn't last as long, or have any real out of state competition.  Not to mention that typically no one travels at all, so, they just compete against the same people over and over again.  Personnally, I believe they would do much better if they went back to USA wrestling rather than slowly doing away with it.  Of course, even when I was in wrestling up there, the H.S. Association didn't like to admit Freestyle helped with anything.

Also, ever wonder why Ohio, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania are all great wrestling states? USA all the way!

[pioneer_pride 1]

Dinubus - did you watch the interview?  Dave Dean mentions New Jersey & Pennsylvania specifically for their strong folkstyle developmental leagues.  Pennsylvania has a youth league very much like Myway called PJW.  That league has been around for over 40 years, and is probably the best youth wrestling "folkstyle" league in the nation.  They are not affiliated with USAW and in fact have joined forces with Dave Dean's NUWAY.  http://www.pajw.org/.  Dave Dean started myway because USAW at that time didn't have anything going on in folkstyle wrestling. 

I don't know about your comments about competition up there.  You may be right it might have been better under USAW.  But I've talked to Dave Dean several times and there is more to his league than just competition.  They use the funds generated from that league to sponsor travel teams, camps, etc.  They run national championships up there that draws a lot of competition from out of state.  The money they are raising up there goes 100% to Michigan wrestling.  They are making boatloads of money and are doing good things with it for Michigan.  They have goals to eventually help fund start up college wrestling programs.  Their focus is 100% on their state.  I think that's a good thing and I agree with Nightmare on this.  Kentucky would do well to join forces with these guys.

[dinubus 2]

The whole thing is about MONEY, not about the kids.  Going to a MYWAY event costs $40 per competitor.  Going to a USA event costs $10 per wrestlers.  Get the clue?  This thing does not build wrestling, it will destroy it.  The current best organization to build wrestling is USA wrestling.  Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana, to name some states that are tough around our area, all have great USA wrestling setups.  If you look on http://www.themat.com/section.php?section_id=4&page=schedules and sort the schedules by state, you will see that these states have lots of tournaments every weekend.  You start up the MYWAY stuff and people will only be able to afford maybe 4 tournaments in the season.  Using USA, they would be able to go to 12 for the same cost and have a USAW card that insures them to and from tournaments and practice, and while at practice and tournaments.  You have to be ignorant not to see the problem with the whole MYWAY set up.  The only people that like this are the ones that do not understand how benificial Freestyle and Greco wrestling is for our Folkstyle wrestlers.  They are people that think Folkstyle is the best style and evidently do not have any desires for International competition.

[Nightmare 0]

dinubus and pioneer_pride,

What I really wanted people to get out of this post wasnt that MYWAY was the holy grail of wrestling or anything of that nature. My point was that we as a state need a central leader who can organize more tournaments, all star teams, camps ect. Right now Keith Smith is the director of USA wrestling for Kentucky, and I hate to say it but he has really dropped the ball. The state only has one all star team (the one that goes to Illinois for the MS national duals) and only 2 Ky kids went to Fargo last year, dinubus if you really know so much about wrestling (as it appears from most of your posts) then please step up to the plate and get the ball rolling. Im not asking you to be the director or anything but do something more than just talk on this board about what SHOULD be done.

[pioneer_pride 1]

dinubus - Dave Dean started Myway wrestling after he approached USAW to get them involved in a folkstyle league.  Just like PA & NJ have.  Probably other states.  He was an assistant coach at MSU and thought their state would benefit from a folkstyle league in their state.  USAW (in that state) had no interest in it.  Just FS/GR.  So he started his own league and USAW in Michigan now has some competition.  Dave Dean & Roger Chandler are D1 assistant coaches.  But you think they are ignorant about what their state needs?  My kid has been to plenty of USAW tourneys, and not 1 has been $10.  Usually $15 or more.  I've helped out with Myway's website and helped posted some of their flyers.  I've not seen a single flyer with a tournament fee of over $18 for non members/$15 for members.  Unless their fees went through the roof in the past year...i think you are severely exaggerating on the cost of the tournaments ($40). 

[dinubus 2]

dinubus - Dave Dean started Myway wrestling after he approached USAW to get them involved in a folkstyle league.  Just like PA & NJ have.  Probably other states.  He was an assistant coach at MSU and thought their state would benefit from a folkstyle league in their state.  USAW (in that state) had no interest in it.  Just FS/GR.  So he started his own league and USAW in Michigan now has some competition.  Dave Dean & Roger Chandler are D1 assistant coaches.  But you think they are ignorant about what their state needs?  My kid has been to plenty of USAW tourneys, and not 1 has been $10.  Usually $15 or more.  I've helped out with Myway's website and helped posted some of their flyers.  I've not seen a single flyer with a tournament fee of over $18 for non members/$15 for members.  Unless their fees went through the roof in the past year...i think you are severely exaggerating on the cost of the tournaments ($40). 

So he says!  USAW has never, I repeat, never, backed away from Folkstyle wrestling.  As a matter of fact, my two boys just got done wrestling in a Folkstyle tournament ran by USAW.  Also, the nationally recognized Folkstyle nationals for kids (bantam - schoolboy) in Iowa is also run by USAW.  And by the way, there are tons and tons of competitors.  So, please don't go along with a man that is just trying to make money off the sport rather than actually build it.

[dinubus 2]

dinubus and pioneer_pride,

What I really wanted people to get out of this post wasnt that MYWAY was the holy grail of wrestling or anything of that nature. My point was that we as a state need a central leader who can organize more tournaments, all star teams, camps ect. Right now Keith Smith is the director of USA wrestling for Kentucky, and I hate to say it but he has really dropped the ball. The state only has one all star team (the one that goes to Illinois for the MS national duals) and only 2 Ky kids went to Fargo last year, dinubus if you really know so much about wrestling (as it appears from most of your posts) then please step up to the plate and get the ball rolling. Im not asking you to be the director or anything but do something more than just talk on this board about what SHOULD be done.

It takes a lot more than one man.  Keith has tried to do his part and I am trying to do my part.  Yes, more can be done, the coaches that are setting up the tournaments need to post them on www.themat.com (so we can get some Indiana competition over here).  I do not believe I could designate enough time to it along with my current engagements.  Currently I am working toward Administrative positions in schools which has taken up a lot of time with meetings, I also coach my two boys in (4 & 6 y/o) in their wrestling. And, I am trying to do everything I can to pay the bills during this economic cricis which has meant a lot less of "my" time.

[dinubus 2]

dinubus - Dave Dean started Myway wrestling after he approached USAW to get them involved in a folkstyle league.  Just like PA & NJ have.  Probably other states.  He was an assistant coach at MSU and thought their state would benefit from a folkstyle league in their state.  USAW (in that state) had no interest in it.  Just FS/GR.  So he started his own league and USAW in Michigan now has some competition.  Dave Dean & Roger Chandler are D1 assistant coaches.  But you think they are ignorant about what their state needs?  My kid has been to plenty of USAW tourneys, and not 1 has been $10.  Usually $15 or more.  I've helped out with Myway's website and helped posted some of their flyers.  I've not seen a single flyer with a tournament fee of over $18 for non members/$15 for members.  Unless their fees went through the roof in the past year...i think you are severely exaggerating on the cost of the tournaments ($40). 

I have taken my two boys to 6 tournaments this year and each one has been $10 per style.  So, you could be right if your child has been in multiple styles (say freestyle, greco, and folkstyle).  The cheapest tournament my brother has been able to attend up in Michigan was club folkstyle (not a MYWAY) sponsored event in which he payed $25.  All the MYWAY he attended cost a minimum of $40 per wrestlers.  So again! All about the money!  The only tournament my boys have hit that I payed $25 for each to wrestle at was when they wrestled at Franklin Indiana's Iron man and they competed in freestyle, folkstyle, and greco for that amount, not just folkstyle like my brothers boys have been able to wrestle.  Oh, and by the way, by brothers boys have been doing the MYWAY and club wrestling in Michigan the past 2 years and the prices have stayed about the same!  Get your facts straight!

[dinubus 2]

USAW charges $25 per wrestler for a card that allows all wrestlers to compete in all USAW sponsored events, insurance to, from, and during all practices and events.  And, all a person has to do to get their event sponsored is to be a coach member and sign up in their membership page online.  It is very simple.  There are no team fees, or all the other garbage assessed by MYWAY.  This is all not to mention that their season is already done as of the first weekend in April.  USAW sponsors the Cincinnati Youth wrestling tournaments our elementary kids utilize from December through March, then has the freestyle still going.  I still have 6 more tournaments set up for my kids and that is without travelling over 1hr 45 min. max while living here in Kentucky.  Below is some information from the MYWAY website of their additional team fees, card fees, etc..  And, their cards only allow you to wrestle at their events, it does not cover any insurance period.

See for yourself at:  http://www.mywaywrestling.com/membership/index.html

2009 Membership Fees:

$15.00 for affiliated membership due on or before January 15, 2009

$20.00 for affiliated membership after January 15, 2009

$30.00 for non-affiliated membership

Club directors you do not need to fill out the membership form below. Once your club registration is received you will be emailed login information. You will add or renew members there then send a list of names with payment for membership.

All individuals that are non-affiliated with a MYWA club must register by mailing in the Membership form below.

2009 Unaffiliated Membership Registration by Mail .pdf file

2009 Unaffiliated Membership Registration by Mail MS Word file

2009 Club Fees:

$75.00 for Renewing Club

$100.00 for New Club

[Nightmare 0]

dinubus,

I did not mean to specifically call you out, I meant that more as an open invitation for someone to take the reigns of Kentucky wrestling. I think we can all we agree that the state needs better organization. Now that we have identified the problem we can start working on the solutions.

[dinubus 2]

Sounds good, we need a continued effort with everyone.  If we can talk with our coaches that put on summer tournaments and ensure that they post their tournaments on www.themat.com, we can gain a lot more competitors which is good for money for them, and good for competition for our kids.  We also need to ensure the tournaments get ran well and organized well so the competition comes back year after year.  I know the Fern Creek tournament (yesterday) would have had lots more competitors from Jeffersonville, IN, and Charlestown, IN, should the tournament have been posted.  Instead, they all went to Columbus, IN.  A much further drive for them.

[kdsmith27 14]

dinubus - Dave Dean started Myway wrestling after he approached USAW to get them involved in a folkstyle league.  Just like PA & NJ have.  Probably other states.  He was an assistant coach at MSU and thought their state would benefit from a folkstyle league in their state.  USAW (in that state) had no interest in it.  Just FS/GR.  So he started his own league and USAW in Michigan now has some competition.  Dave Dean & Roger Chandler are D1 assistant coaches.  But you think they are ignorant about what their state needs?  My kid has been to plenty of USAW tourneys, and not 1 has been $10.  Usually $15 or more.  I've helped out with Myway's website and helped posted some of their flyers.  I've not seen a single flyer with a tournament fee of over $18 for non members/$15 for members.  Unless their fees went through the roof in the past year...i think you are severely exaggerating on the cost of the tournaments ($40). 

I was going to stay out of this, but your knowledge of dave is very weak. There are two sides to a story. Regarding the Michigan Association, Dave has been successful because of his difference in philosophies he has with the USAW/Michigan State Leadership.  He has been able to coral others to take his side against the established state association leadership.  It is not a price war, but a political war that has made Mr. Dean

[deadlift 1]

What about freestyle and greco?  Does Kentucky not have an interest in these styles?

[eville dad 17]

I think KY has grown a great deal in USAW under Mr. Smiths leadership. I doubt most of you can remember how poor the off season opportunities were in KY before he took over. If I remember it correctly it was the Bluegrass Games and that was it! I compliment Mr. Smith and his supporters for the job they have done and the growth they have acheived. Still has a lot of room for growth but has come a long way in the past 5 yrs.

I had spoken with Mr. Dean about "MyWAY" a few years ago before USAW really got a base in KY. He had been very successful growing his MYWAY program. The KY Middle School Coaches were still trying to establish the middle school wrestling and not sure how best to grow the sport, USAW or whatever. He explained the reason for  MYWAY vs USAW was because it enabled the state to keep the money inhouse to support Michigan. The USAW being the Olympic sanctioned program was able to use its funding at it's discretion to support the Olympic training and Michigan felt its wrestlers had been slighted in regards to invitations to the USAW Olympic Training. Some states seemed to get more support than others indicating its decisions had become political based on relationships among coaches and management and not about wrestling. I am not sure  how valid all of those claims were but overall it seems that MYWAY has worked out well for Michigan and USAW has worked out well for KY. KY has been growing and the USAW has been a good part of that trend. We just need to keep it growing!

As far as USAW's lack of support for Folkstyle, I dont agree. If you have ever attended the USAW folkstyle Nationals you will know its probably the best Folkstyle Nationals Tournament of all. I do agree the USAW puts more emphasis on Free and Greco for Wresters in the High School years but I think thats works well considering they are the Olympic Sanctioning Program.

 

[pioneer_pride 1]

Eville Dad - you took the words right out of my mouth.  I also compliment Keith Smith for all he's done, but if someone showed up claiming they had something better...i'd at least listen to what they have to say.

kdsmith27 - i never said you dropped the ball, that was Nightmare.  I don't know if my knowledge is weak of Dave or not, others can say what they want I've never had a reason not to believe the guy.  When you say Dave Dean felt like "he was not getting enough recognition from usaw" - let's be specific there.  He felt like the kids from Michigan were not getting enough recognition from USAW.  He had Michigan kids that wanted to train at the OTC and were denied.  He got ticked, and decided to try and build something better than USAW.  He said he looked at the 10 years prior to him starting MYWAY and how much money Michigan had sent to USAW.  His conservative estimate was over 2 million dollars.  In addition to this, he was already trying to get USAW to sanction a folkstyle league which he was told "no".  This is his words.  I'm not saying they are right or wrong.  Assuming he's not lying, I agree with what he did.  It seems to me he was just standing up for the kids in his state, rather than lying down and letting USAW take their money and support kids from other states.  For the record, I will have a USAW card for my kid as soon as he is healthy.  He's not attended a single USAW tourney in Ky that I can recall, not by choice, just went to Indiana or Ohio because they were closer.  When kids or parents ask me how to get matches in the summer, I tell them join a freestyle club and go to www.iswa.org or www.themat.com and find tournaments.  I'm not against USAW, just a fan of Myway.  Chill out!

Dinubus - CYW is not a USAW league.  How about you try and get your facts straight.  I'm trying to get my facts straight on the fees per tournament for Myway.  You are claiming they are $40 per tournament.  I call b.s.  But if I'm wrong, I'll man up here and admit I was wrong.  Maybe there were some tournaments up there that were $40, but not all.  Get real.

[pioneer_pride 1]

Dinubus - I'd recheck your facts about the fees.  This is straight from the admin from the MYWAY league:

"The most expensive tournament fee we have is $22.00 for states.  And everyone gets a gift, top eight placers receive plaques, top 4 get a national event paid for, and  top 3 get MYWA singlets.  So if you do well you probably make money on us!"

I think your $40 fee includes a membership card and tournament registration.  Yes, it really sounds like they are all about the money in that league and have no interest in the kids!  lol

Best of luck to Kentucky USAW, but the Myway guys are pretty good guys too.

[Nightmare 0]

First of all, I would like to apologize to Keith Smith, I have not lived in KY very long but was judging my assessment of him based on how KY USAW is now and not how it has grown over the past 5 years....

That being said Ive looked through the different wrestling leagues and the posts in this thread and I think I have found some points that KY wrestling can improve on:

1) Better and more leadership at the state and club level. (not a stab at Mr.Smith)

2) Better ran and advertised tournaments.

3) Incentives for the top kids in the state to attend Nationals and other prestigous tournaments. ( such as paying the entry fee for state champs like MYWAY does.)

[dinubus 2]

Dinubus - I'd recheck your facts about the fees.  This is straight from the admin from the MYWAY league:

"The most expensive tournament fee we have is $22.00 for states.  And everyone gets a gift, top eight placers receive plaques, top 4 get a national event paid for, and  top 3 get MYWA singlets.  So if you do well you probably make money on us!"

I think your $40 fee includes a membership card and tournament registration.  Yes, it really sounds like they are all about the money in that league and have no interest in the kids!  lol

Best of luck to Kentucky USAW, but the Myway guys are pretty good guys too.

My sentiments exactly! LMAO

[dinubus 2]

Why do the state champs need their entry fee paid for?  If they are having money trouble, maybe there is something their club could do, but other than that, I don't see the need.  Not to mention, I don't want to pay a minimum of $18 per wrestler to compete in a tournament as MYWAY does.  In all the KY, IN, OH, MI (USAW) tournaments I have attended with my boys, we have never paid more than $10 per style that they compete in.  Ever.  $18 is almost DOUBLE.  Not to mention, that the fee is flexible in MYWAY and isn't always even that cheap.  I tell you, if KY goes in the direction of MYWAY, I will find an address that I can use in IN so my boys can stick with their USAW program and go to their USAW state meet.  I will not pay that extra amount so someone can pocket the money and say "It is all about the kids!"  Has anyone checked out his house/land versus his job?

[Zeus 117]

Why do the state champs need their entry fee paid for?  If they are having money trouble, maybe there is something their club could do, but other than that, I don't see the need.  Not to mention, I don't want to pay a minimum of $18 per wrestler to compete in a tournament as MYWAY does.  In all the KY, IN, OH, MI (USAW) tournaments I have attended with my boys, we have never paid more than $10 per style that they compete in.  Ever.  $18 is almost DOUBLE.  Not to mention, that the fee is flexible in MYWAY and isn't always even that cheap.  I tell you, if KY goes in the direction of MYWAY, I will find an address that I can use in IN so my boys can stick with their USAW program and go to their USAW state meet.  I will not pay that extra amount so someone can pocket the money and say "It is all about the kids!"  Has anyone checked out his house/land versus his job?

Just because you made that comment do you teach or live in Fayette County?

[grappler-of-old 44]

OK I'm a little confussed.

#1.  If a kid has financial problems he can get money from a club?  What club.  In KY we only have open mats as far as I know.  No clubs per say. Or at least not in Nky. 

    If we did have clubs wouldn't it cost something to join that club?  More expense.

#2.  More a question.  Does Michigan allow their high school wrestling coaches to coach in the summer?  If you dont know Ky does not allow this. 

    KY has a big problem with high school coaches.  We have very few of them qualified.  Look at some of the posts in other threads that point to head coaches that have little or no knowledge of wrestling.

    Everyone says the exact thing that Dinubus says.  I cant because .......... (Myself included, at least for the next 4 years) (by the way for those who think they know me yes you do, I'm back but still prefere to stay anonymous)

    I think the ball was not dropped by Mr. Smith but by the rest of the wrestling community in KY.

    He tried to set up the Gable challenge.  This year it seems to have fallen through.  This is local coaches not taking up the cause.  If we could regionalize the state in USAW or whatever group with Mr. Smith heading the whole state I believe we could succeed much much more.

    My son has only wrestled in 2 tourneys this summer.  Neither sponsored by USA. (one AAU in KY and one individually sponsored in OH)  The rest of the summer I would have to travel at minimun 50 minutes to a tourney close to NKY.  The rest are over an hour away.  That includes Ohio and Ind. If there is one close then I can't find the info.  He is playing 2 other sports now and it has become difficult to make those kind of trips, especially if he travels to them and pins two kids in less than 1 minute or only gets one match.  He is a tweener at this point.  Weak tourneys he walks through and the tough tourneys he is two and out.  Another reason for me not to make these trips.

    What has happened is what always happens in KY.  Someone steps up to take the reigns (Mr. Smith) He seems to maybe make a mistake or two (which anyone would if they are starting out and doing it alone) and everyone bashes him and hangs him out to dry.  If you don't like what a person is doing offer to help (knowing Mr. Smith I know he would listen).  My hands have been tied because of KY rules for almost a decade, (even though a bent them in several occasions).  Now I have to become a little selfish in support of my son and spend more time with him instead of other kids children/wrestlers. 

    We still have time.  Call your local coaches, get them to hold a tourney or two.  Yes money is a problem for everyone, but try it and see what happens.  Even if it fails the first year people will hear about it and more will show up the next year.  A tourney is like a business, very few are successful the first year but you have to keep trying before it becomes a success. 

OK I'm done.

[sweetaspie 0]

I know this much....dinubus stinks. You shouldn't judge. Grow up. I feel bad for your kids..to be raised by a closed minded minibus like you.

[pioneer_pride 1]

Why do the state champs need their entry fee paid for?  If they are having money trouble, maybe there is something their club could do, but other than that, I don't see the need.  Not to mention, I don't want to pay a minimum of $18 per wrestler to compete in a tournament as MYWAY does.  In all the KY, IN, OH, MI (USAW) tournaments I have attended with my boys, we have never paid more than $10 per style that they compete in.  Ever.  $18 is almost DOUBLE.  Not to mention, that the fee is flexible in MYWAY and isn't always even that cheap.  I tell you, if KY goes in the direction of MYWAY, I will find an address that I can use in IN so my boys can stick with their USAW program and go to their USAW state meet.  I will not pay that extra amount so someone can pocket the money and say "It is all about the kids!"  Has anyone checked out his house/land versus his job?

Man, you are something else.  Are you now saying their tourneys are a minimum of $18 because I said the highest one I have ever seen was $18?  Is that what the "minimum" means to you?  On one hand, you are bashing myway for charging too much and on the other hand you are bashing them for paying the national entry fees for their state champs???  That doesn't make sense.  By the way, it was top 4 in the state...not state champ that got their entry fee paid for.  So let's say their top 4 state placers want to go to the Ohio T of C at like $40 a pop...myway pays this.  Their awards are excellent.  The $22 is a bargain for their state tournament.  What do the top 4 in this state get from USAW?  A $0.99 medal?  I tell you what, charge the $22 to enter, and give the top 3 kids in this state a custom Team Ky singlet & free admission to Virginia Beach, or T of C, etc.  Our kids and parents would love it.  To me that is ALL about the kids.  Myway is raising the bar in that state.  USAW up there will have to step it up to keep up.  That competition is good and healthy.  And who wins, the kids do.