Opinions on Kentucky Youth State Tournament

[E/R King 0]

So if we use 32 man brackets that could be 9 matches in one day.  I don't think it is fair to ask kids to wrestle that many in a day.

[Indians40 2]

Since we have 4 regions we could have the top four from each region qualify and that would make the state brackets 16.  Every child will have the opportunity to compete at their regional tournament with qualifiers advancing to state.

[heavy83 15]

The thing I don't like about the 16 man brackets are just like middle schools if you do it one day the 5 match rule can come into play. Not fair to the kid who loses first match and works his tail off to get consi finals only to lose by default. Please remember we as coaches and parents are here to teach fundamentals of wrestling and life. IMO 99.9% of the kids who won sat. does not care there was 3 brackets at 70lbs. They are as proud as all get out that they won. The adults are the ones that "IMO" too hung up on there being a "TRUE STATE CHAMPION". If need be we could change name to "THE KENTUCKY YOUTH STATEWIDE TOURNAMENT", and not keep team scores so each kid that wins was the that day.

[Indians40 2]

heavy83 - you bring up a good point so I think we should put it to the test.  As coaches let's agree upon 5 questions to poll our youth teams on.  Question 1 might be: Would you prefer to have 1 state champion or multiple state champions?  Question 2 - Do you agree with the 5 match rule?  Question 3 - Do you think regionals should be a qualifier for state?  and so on.  Then let's post the reponses from all the kids across the state and see what kids really would prefer.  I think some of us might be surprised on what the kids really want.

[Guest The Great And Powerful Oz]

Ok heavy83, if that is your only concern about having 1 bracket, then how about we figure out how other states get around this?  There are many tournaments and state tournaments all over the country who ignore the 5 match rule.  Go to a USAW tournament and you can wrestle as many times as you want.  How do they do this?

Indians40 - you are making a lot of sense.  Let's see what the coaches say. 

Again for the people on here who are trying to squash this friendly discussions, no one is trying to discredit the kids accomplishments or anything that the KYSWA or Johnson County did.  We are trying to help improve the state for next year.  It is my opinion as well as others that a state tournament should determine the best kid in a particular weight class.  No one can convince me otherwise.  So to say "let's all drop this".  Sorry, it won't be that easy.  Give me a good reason for splitting the brackets other than "because the bylaw says so" and I will be happy to drop it.  I just don't agree with it.

[Indians40 2]

Well Spoken - I couldn't agree with you more

[Irish Wrestler 10]

 Please remember we as coaches and parents are here to teach fundamentals of wrestling and life. IMO 99.9% of the kids who won sat. does not care there was 3 brackets at 70lbs. They are as proud as all get out that they won. The adults are the ones that "IMO" too hung up on there being a "TRUE STATE CHAMPION".

My point exactly.  Glad to see someone else was thinking the same way.

[grappler-of-old 44]

The thing I don't like about the 16 man brackets are just like middle schools if you do it one day the 5 match rule can come into play. Not fair to the kid who loses first match and works his tail off to get consi finals only to lose by default.

The 5 match rule does not have to be enforced in elementary school.  Even the high schools are looking at this rule.

Please remember we as coaches and parents are here to teach fundamentals of wrestling and life. IMO 99.9% of the kids who won sat. does not care there was 3 brackets at 70lbs. They are as proud as all get out that they won. The adults are the ones that "IMO" too hung up on there being a "TRUE STATE CHAMPION". If need be we could change name to "THE KENTUCKY YOUTH STATEWIDE TOURNAMENT", and not keep team scores so each kid that wins was the that day.

The same could be said at any tournament.  Most kids just wrestle.  When they get a medal they usualy don't know why they recieved it. 

It is what it is.  THE STATE TOURNAMENT.  I believe we should make it a true one in the future. 

We are just trying to improve what we already have.  The only way to do this is to continue moving forward.  If we stand still and sit on our hands we will not be able to move forward.  These are all growing pains that KY wrestling is experiencing at this time.  Don't give up because the pain is to great.  Like we tell our kids move thru the pain and do the best you can.

[E/R King 0]

I think a good reason to split the brackets is because if they didn't the kids would have had to wrestle too many matches.  Even if they had used 16 man brackets there would have been more than one champion. 

[mouse 0]

Since we have 4 regions we could have the top four from each region qualify and that would make the state brackets 16.  Every child will have the opportunity to compete at their regional tournament with qualifiers advancing to state.

That is the way to go right there. There is 4 regions, each has a regional qualifier with the top 4 from each going on to the state tourney.

Everyone gets to wrestle at least at the qualifier if not state, and the state tourney is easily managable at that level.

[heavy83 15]

The problem I see with making the reg. a qualifier for the top 4 is you will have to seed the tourn. Which could be very hard since teams usualy don't wrestle each other. There"s always arguing about seeds in high school how much do you think it will be here. If that happens it will be coaches deciding which kids are the best instead of the kids.

[refdad 3]

for anyone who is of the belief that 5 matches in one day is too much for a kid, don't ever go to the Tournament of Champions or the Tulsa or Reno Nationals Or Cliff Keen Eastern Nationals.

[heavy83 15]

Inians40 good point, but imo if you ask the kids about multiple bracket, 5 match rule,etc. most kids will say huh? except for the ones mom, dad or coach tells what to say, just my opinion though

[oldgrappler 9]

for anyone who is of the belief that 5 matches in one day is too much for a kid, don't ever go to the Tournament of Champions or the Tulsa or Reno Nationals Or Cliff Keen Eastern Nationals.

Exactly - especially if they are just wrestling 3 minute matches.  The five match rule should not be an excuse to split the weight classes at a state tournament.

[Ranger123 43]

I think this weekend showed a major problem with using the regions as a qualifier.  How many of the "top 4" are definitely going to travel to the state tournament.  I'm guessing 75% at best.  Then all we have done is limit participation to have a bunch of byes at the "state" tournament.  Plus, what will happen is Region A will have 50 kids show up to participate in the 7-8 year old 60 pound weight class and no one in the 9-10 90 pound weight.  Region B will be the opposite and then the state bracket ends up with 8 or 10 instead of 16.  And then a lot of people are upset that their kids didn't qualify because of poor seeding and then there were a bunch of open slots at state.

[mouse 0]

for anyone who is of the belief that 5 matches in one day is too much for a kid, don't ever go to the Tournament of Champions or the Tulsa or Reno Nationals Or Cliff Keen Eastern Nationals.

I've never even heard of that rule prior to on here. There isn't any problem with wrestling more then 5 times.

[Guest The Great And Powerful Oz]

I've never even heard of that rule prior to on here. There isn't any problem with wrestling more then 5 times.

As long as they have adequate rest in between matches.  You are totally right.  And when was the last time you went to a youth tournament where you didn't have PLENTY of rest between matches?

[mouse 0]

I think this weekend showed a major problem with using the regions as a qualifier.  How many of the "top 4" are definitely going to travel to the state tournament.  I'm guessing 75% at best.  Then all we have done is limit participation to have a bunch of byes at the "state" tournament.  Plus, what will happen is Region A will have 50 kids show up to participate in the 7-8 year old 60 pound weight class and no one in the 9-10 90 pound weight.  Region B will be the opposite and then the state bracket ends up with 8 or 10 instead of 16.  And then a lot of people are upset that their kids didn't qualify because of poor seeding and then there were a bunch of open slots at state.

I don't understand your logic there. Everyone is saying how great it was that there were over 600 kids that came to state, yet you think if a kid had to qualify for state a less percentage of kids would show up? I would think if they had to qualify they would be more likely to show.

As far as you example where is the problem? All it does is weed out the kids at the qualifying tournament rather then wasting a bunch of time doing it at state.

[mouse 0]

The problem I see with making the reg. a qualifier for the top 4 is you will have to seed the tourn. Which could be very hard since teams usualy don't wrestle each other. There"s always arguing about seeds in high school how much do you think it will be here. If that happens it will be coaches deciding which kids are the best instead of the kids.

There is nothing hard about it, you seed them according to their place at regionals. As far as what regions wrestle each other that is just random.  1's start off wrestling 4 seeds, 2's vs 3's, etc.

[wrestlewatcher 3]

All it does is weed out the kids at the qualifying tournament rather then wasting a bunch of time doing it at state.

With youth wrestling in it's infancy in this state, the association is working very hard to put a framework in place that includes all kids........and basically "weeds" out no one.  My guess is that when knothole baseball started there weren't many teams........then it grew (and that was good).  And then there were associations and temas that sprouted from that model to start "select" teams.....and that was fine too.  If teams want to branch off of the youth teams that are being built today then they should......I hope they find the level of competition and intensity that they are looking for.  But I want an adequate amount of teams for other kids to be able to be a part of and not be "weeded out" when they are 5 and 6 years old and aren't good enough to go to a state tournament.  I think we would be better off working to manage the growth of the tournament, then we would by preventing the growth of the tournament.

[heavy83 15]

Mouse the seeding i was talking about is at the reg. tourn. For all gung ho about true champions you would be crying if random draws put the best on one side of brackets. I agree with ranger123 we as youth coaches and fans of the sport to keep kids interested and learning not so much if you're the true state champ. I tell the kids I help at this age it is more about learning. they have plenty of time to stress out on winning or losing in high school.

[Irish Wrestler 10]

Amen again! :mrgreen:

[Yodawrestles 0]

I was just hit with a epiphany!!!!!!!!!! Why not get rid of the refs in youth wrestling and just let the kids wrestle for fun.  Then there would be  no looser and we dont have to worry about bruising their ego.  Winning is not everything and i just dont understand how this is taught if everyone wins.  I lost my first 13 matches by pin, but still went on the place 3rd in districts that year.  Why did i keep going, because the match itself was not the totality of my experience.  By playing Don King and padding records and instilling false confidence in children we are playing into their bloated narcisistic tendacies.  I have seen studs prematurely leave the wrestling community because they never turned the corner into win alley.  Now i guess the coach could have padded their records and set them up against bums but no matter what they would have eventually  hit the wall of realization and have to come to terms with the intagible character issues accosiated with winning and loosing.  Truth is, it is very difficult to control winning, all we can do is to prepare to wrestle intelligently and developing a solid work ethic.  But All of this is mute if we just want to use kids to develop the numbers in youth wrestling and get their family to join the booster club.  Personally i say get rid of the refs and just tell em they won!!! Then they would nt feel bad about loosing.......(<---Sarcasim at its best)

[Indians40 2]

My opinion even though it isn't a popular one is this.  If we want every kid to medal then lets hold more beginner tournaments in the state of Kentucky.  Leave the state tournament to the best in each region and let the wonderful sport of wrestling grow in that way.

[wrestlingmom 9]

The thing about beginner tourny are it's had to get ppl to show up.  Most everyone that is involved in the youth programs are involved in middle & high school programs as well.    Our organization hosted a couple this year and only 2 schools showed.  I don't think that there is a quick fix....just going to take a while to work all the bugs out.