16 Man Brackets at State

[grappler-of-old 44]

What about the two years in the 80's where they had district, regionals, semistate and state?  I believe they only placed the top four in each class those years....that's like many other states around us, but we don't have enough schools.  Obviously it didn't last.

When they did this they made the state tourney an 8-man bracket.  It was a 1 day tourney much like the regions are today.  I'm not sure why they did not place top 6.

[wrestlinggods 0]

I have been a former head coach in KY and now a coach in IN.  I think the first thing you need to fight is

    #1 Coaches in the off season should be able to coach their wrestlers in the FS and GR styles of wrestling.  Great wrestlers aren't made in the 3-5 month period you get to coach them in folkstyle.  The time wrestlers make their biggest strides in this sport is in the FS & GR season.  Being able to take your wrestlers to FILA Cadet or JR nationals, NHSCA HS nationals, FARGO nationals is the best preparation for any wrestlers in the off season. When the state starts letting coaches run USA wrestling clubs for the kids, the state will produce better quality wrestlers.

  #2  Get rid of the 32 man bracket, there is about a total of 70-100 schools with wrestling in the state (estimation).  20-30 can schools field a full team (varsity, JV, and freshman).  Many schools cant field a full varsity team.  I felt the state tournament (which was well run) is way to easy of a tournament.  There are times you will have wrestlers that don't even belong there but when you have 4 guys in a weight class at regions they will be at state.  I had a wrestler with a 1-??? record that made it to state because there were only 4 guys in the region.  If you want to get respect for our sport, build a stronger coaches association and bring up these concerns with the KHSAA.  Good luck with this battle, I hope for the best! 

[pinningone 0]

I like the idea of the 16 man bracket because if you make it to state then you know that you earned the right to be there.  In some cases you dont even have to win a single match at regionals to make it to state.  If we revert to the 16 man bracket you will see alot more competitive matches at state rather than just pin after pin in the first round of state.

[BlastDouble35 0]

the 16 man bracket is def. better than 32 man bracket. The only bad thing about the 16 man is that u only had to weigh in once which gave some kids that didnt cut much a disadvantage. Some of the other kids in the same weight would be cuttin the night before and then blimp up to about 15 lbs. over the 2nd day of state.

[ˢʰᵃʷⁿ¹¹² 0]

so we're not doing the district, regionals, state or are we

[danmoody 1]

the 16 man bracket is def. better than 32 man bracket. The only bad thing about the 16 man is that u only had to weigh in once which gave some kids that didnt cut much a disadvantage. Some of the other kids in the same weight would be cuttin the night before and then blimp up to about 15 lbs. over the 2nd day of state.

There were still 2 weigh ins when State was a 16 man bracket, at least when I was in high school.  The whole point of a State tournament is to prove that you've accomplished something; earned your way into something.  As a 32 man bracket, not many people are earning their way in.  In many "Regions" (basically the old Districts) there are byes, and people are getting into the State tournament because they show up.  I understand it's about money, and I don't think anyone should lie to themselves and say that it's to help the sport grow.  Maybe if the sport grows as a bi-product people can look at the results and say, "See, I told you the system would work," but I'll stand by myself if I have to and say that's just lip service.

Out of a 16 man bracket, place the top 6 after they've qualified through District and Region, and feel good about yourself for accomplishing something.  The whole 32 man bracket is a joke.  Yeah, it may be nice for a kid who's a sophomore or freshman to have "State Tournament experience" under his belt, but it completely detracts from the guy who's busted his butt all year and truly deserves to be there.  Someone posted earlier about the upsets that happened the first day of the tournament when it was a 16 man bracket.  That was expected, you watched for it, and it was exciting.  How many times are there first round upsets these days?  Probably here and there, but I doubt very many; it's not something you can really even hope for when you've got someone who is a "Regional" champ wrestling a kid that only got his hand raised in victory when he made weight.

I'll admit that I've become pretty distanced from KY high school wrestling over the past 7 or 8 years, but after the State tournament became something less than an accomplishment I really lost interest.  It would be nice to see the elimination scheme become tougher.  There are more high schools with wrestling in KY now than when I was in high school, and we still managed to have a competetive tournament.  If some districts/regions are tougher than others and a kid gets left out that may have placed at State, well, welcome to life.  It's not always fair, sometimes you get bad breaks, and sometimes you realize that the only chances you have are those that you make for yourself.

If people really want to make KY wrestling more competitive, worry about quality and not quantity.  As it is, all that the first about day and half of wrestling of the State tournament is are kids getting eliminated that shouldn't have been there anyway.  If you just want to add numbers, make it an open State tournament and let anyone who wants to wrestle show up.  The level of wrestling may never represent anything, but at least the entry fees would amount to something.

[prowler 2]

There were still 2 weigh ins when State was a 16 man bracket, at least when I was high school.  The whole point of a State tournament is to prove that you've accomplished something; earned your way into something.  As a 32 man bracket, not many people are earning their way in.  In many "Regions" (basically the old Districts) there are byes, and people are getting into the State tournament because they show up.  I understand it's about money, and I don't think anyone should lie to themselves and say that it's to help the sport grow.  Maybe if the sport grows as a bi-product people can look at the results and say, "See, I told you the system would work," but I'll stand by myself if I have to and say that's just lip service.

Out of a 16 man bracket, place the top 6 after they've qualified through District and Region, and feel good about yourself for accomplishing something.  The whole 32 man bracket is a joke.  Yeah, it may be nice for a kid who's a sophomore or freshman to have "State Tournament experience" under his belt, but it completely detracts from the guy who's busted his butt all year and truly deserves to be there.  Someone posted earlier about the upsets that happened the first day of the tournament when it was a 16 man bracket.  That was expected, you watched for it, and it was exciting.  How many times are there first round upsets these days?  Probably here and there, but I doubt very many; it's not something you can really even hope for when you've got someone who is a "Regional" champ wrestling a kid that only got his hand raised in victory when he made weight.

I'll admit that I've become pretty distanced from KY high school wrestling over the past 7 or 8 years, but after the State tournament became something less than an accomplishment I really lost interest.  It would be nice to see the elimination scheme become tougher.  There are more high schools with wrestling in KY now than when I was in high school, and we still managed to have a competetive tournament.  If some districts/regions are tougher than others and a kid gets left out that may have placed at State, well, welcome to life.  It's not always fair, sometimes you get bad breaks, and sometimes you realize that the only chances you have are those that you make for yourself.

If people really want to make KY wrestling more competitive, worry about quality and not quantity.  As it is, all that the first about day and half of wrestling of the State tournament is are kids getting eliminated that shouldn't have been there anyway.  If you just want to add numbers, make it an open State tournament and let anyone who wants to wrestle show up.  The level of wrestling may never represent anything, but at least the entry fees would amount to something.

Their is two things impressive about what was just said here

A. That it obviously is not a kid who has wrote this reply because of the correct grammar and the fact that it actually makes alot of sense

B.  The more impressive fact about this quote is that this was wrote at 3:30 A.M.  Somebody is a night owl or just really had to get something off the chest.

[eville dad 17]

I wont argue that qualifying for a 16 man state tougher. But I still say; "it's not about how you get to state, it's what you do when you get there".

Set your ego's aside and consider:

1) 16 man state eliminates 1/2 the kids, these kids will probably never get to see a state tournament, not good for a sport desperately needing to grow.

2) The High School State Tournament is the pinnacle for High School Wrestling, the more participants the more supporters for life. Most high school wrestling is judged through the years on the wrestlers performance at state, not how you got to state.

3) The location is awesome, its a special venue used only one time a year. The Convention Center helps make it a special event. I wouldn't mind if they changed it to a similar facility. Something unique and used only once a year for state, but not just another high school gymnasium.

[Guest jp]

I wont argue that qualifying for a 16 man state tougher. But I still say; "it's not about how you get to state, it's what you do when you get there".

Set your ego's aside and consider:

1) 16 man state eliminates 1/2 the kids, these kids will probably never get to see a state tournament, not good for a sport desperately needing to grow.

2) The High School State Tournament is the pinnacle for High School Wrestling, the more participants the more supporters for life. Most high school wrestling is judged through the years on the wrestlers performance at state, not how you got to state.

3) The location is awesome, its a special venue used only one time a year. The Convention Center helps make it a special event. I wouldn't mind if they changed it to a similar facility. Something unique and used only once a year for state, but not just another high school gymnasium.

Totally agree with all three point.

[DSP135 0]

you know this also brings up the idea of seeding at state. if we cut to a 16 man bracket we could match wrestlers better for better competition by seeds. i know last year brought up that whole conversation about real good wrestlers in a weight class, wrestling each other. ex .johnny wolseifer vs. scott wheeler. in the second round.

16-man bracket would be a good idea.

[grappler-of-old 44]

Yes you will be loosing half the kids if you return to a 16 man bracket, and yes some may never get to see the state tournament, but most of those kids either: 1 don't stick around and go home after they are eliminated; or: 2 never watch the wrestling after they are eliminated.

You are correct it is the pinnacle of high school wrestling, so lets make the wrestling show that high quality throughout the tournament. 

More participants does not equal more supporters.  I believe it causes you to loose supporters. The state tournament becomes another of those long drawn out boring tourneys that last not just one day but 3 long days.  How many actually stay and watch all of Thursday's matches? Most do not pay attention until the quarters or the semifinals.

I have no problem with the location of the state tournament.  Just keep it out of a high school and make the venue special and unique.

I believe we have done this backwards.  The 32 man bracket was not needed.  We did not have enough teams in the state to warrent expanding the brackets.  If we are able to increase the number of teams in each district/now region we could expand the state tournament to those quality wrestlers.

I would like to see a district/region tournament that must take two days to complete because of the number of teams in the district/region 12-18 teams in each region. (96-120 teams in the state)

Then take the top for in each district/region to state.  Finding the top 4 wrestlers in each of these tournaments would most likely be top notch wrestlers.

I yearn for the days when you came to the state tournament and watched every match because the number 1's were not safe from the number 4's.  There were several upsets every year of a 4 defeating a 1. Now it is a rarity.