Rule book? - tap out

[3/4nelson 0]

1 tap out, 1 too many tap outs. I can't give you one example in 7 years as a varsity wrestler where one of our team mates tapped out. Lets estimate 25,000 minutes of wrestling. Our coach did not allow it. If someone can give 4 examples in one year, that team has a big problem.

[grappler-of-old 44]

legitimate tap outs are rare. 

I have only seen it twice in my 25+ years in wrestling.

One that happened to me.  The ref called the pin and I passed out while being smothered by my opponents stomach and lost the match.

Second time I believe in the regional finals where a kid was chocked out by a front head lock, he tapped/pounded on his opponents arm and the ref allowed it to continue until he was turned to his back and pinned.  The wrestler had passed out and took several minutes for him to regain full consciousness.

So I would agree that 4 times in one season let alone twice in a tourney is way of the learning curve.

[Guest wrestler92]

With all this talk there is always going to be two sides to it, one were people think it's wrong and two where trinity says it's not really a problem and the wrestler has asthma and had trouble breathing.  Trouble breathing on your back is not a result of asthma.  The only way to fix this problem is going to be take care of it in the off season and for it to not happen next year.  All the same arguments are being said over and over, but noone will really believe it is being fixed (side one) or think there is a problem (side 2).  So all this is just banter until next season and we see how it goes.  One simple solution for someone to save face 9 months from now....

[JustAMinute 0]

With all this talk there is always going to be two sides to it, one were people think it's wrong and two where trinity says it's not really a problem and the wrestler has asthma and had trouble breathing.  Trouble breathing on your back is not a result of asthma.  The only way to fix this problem is going to be take care of it in the off season and for it to not happen next year.  All the same arguments are being said over and over, but noone will really believe it is being fixed (side one) or think there is a problem (side 2).  So all this is just banter until next season and we see how it goes.  One simple solution for someone to save face 9 months from now....

My point was actually that many of you have tried to imply that the entire team is doing this and it is being taught.  I have pointed out that it is only one wrestler who actually has a medical condition.  There is nothing to prove in 9 months because it isn't really a problem now.  But as you say, everyone has their own version and I know I will not convince anyone otherwise.

[Sport Family 0]

But you should be equally disgusted that 2 of your kids were intentionally punished in the consolation rounds. Both kids should have won their matches and the calls made against Trinity was appalling and disgusting. If your kid, or any other kid deserves to win they should. But winning is a two way street 100% of the time. 4 examples is 4 too many in my opinion.

Well since you know this for a fact then obviously you can prove it and two wrongs don't make a right.  You need to report these individuals immediately.  What do feel is the right thing to do?

[JustAMinute 0]

Justaminute, few if any of your points are valid. The supposed ACL tear came after he already ran out of injury time. It was his second injury that match with the first one occurring flat on his back. If he did tear his ACL I am sorry to hear about that. I never rejoice about a kid getting hurt. I hope he does well and recovers.

If crying out while on his back occurs once, its too many. Instantaneous forfeit should occur in my opinion. Coaches need to nip it in the bud early. I believe the coaches will stop this behavior now.

With all do respect, there is nothing you can tell me about exercise induced asthma that I am not aware of. I suggest you educate yourself by discussing this with a Pulmonologist. Medicines should be taken 30 minutes prior to the event. Once asthma has occurred, the 90 seconds of injury time is not sufficient to absorb the medicines, stop and reverse the attack.

You can certainly focus your energies or discontent towards me. I never mentioned Trinity in any of my comments. A coward I am not, but it is not worth getting into a physical altercation in front of a thousand people. I am all about results. I believe this is the best forum to point out and stop this behavior. But you should be equally disgusted that 2 of your kids were intentionally punished in the consolation rounds. Both kids should have won their matches and the calls made against Trinity was appalling and disgusting. If your kid, or any other kid deserves to win they should. But winning is a two way street 100% of the time. 4 examples is 4 too many in my opinion.

I understand your point but can't prove that the refs actions were intentional, unfortunately.  My son was one of the recipients of the retribution...but again there is no way to prove it.  I think some of the referees should be banned if it can ever be proven.  Oh well.  You are right that I don't know much about asthma...I just know it is an issue for this particular individual.  I don't mean to repeat myself and maybe I am learning more about this topic, but it is not the entire Trinity team and I feel bad for our kids that it is being made out to be a total team issue.  People need to understand that Coach Rudolph will indeed not allow this to happen on an ongoing basis.  I guess I need to just shut up on the topic and wait until next year to prove it like Wrestler92 says.  Thanks for letting me vent.

[I-pinned-em-all 0]

Thank you Sportfamily, I have already emailed Julian Tackett about the ref. I did it yesterday morning. I was appalled about the calls and truly believe the Trinity boys got ripped off. I don't condone that behavior at all. Like I said, winning is a two way street 100% of the time. I suggest you also email Julian Tackett about the big ref with a bad, cheating attitude.

Wrestling is not all about winning the match. This sport teaches kids many lessons in life such as self reliance, the importance of training and focusing on a goal, dedication to both yourself and your team mates, mental toughness, and connecting the mind and body into a technical machine. The least important "life" lesson is how to wrestle.

Personally, I like many of the Trinity people. I believe Mark Hitchings, as an individual, has advanced the sport of wrestling in Kentucky more so than any other individual in the last few years. His oldest son was very impressive down state and will be a real force in the next few years. Trinity's head coach is a good person as well. This is not a personal attack against Trinity. I do believe the coaches will not allow it next year. But no one will ever convince me or many others that what happened at state was justified in anyway. Acknowledging there is/was a problem and assuring everyone it will not happen again will likely stop this issue. Maybe even apologizing that this problem got out of hand would go very far. But no can justify it.

I also believe Trinity will win state next year as a team. I hope when they get their trophy the fans don't boo them. Trinity has worked very hard and has a great team. I hope they do the right thing and let their kids know this behavior will never be tolerated. Not even 1 time in 3000 mintues of wrestling.

[JustAMinute 0]

Well said and thanks for your kind words I-pinned-em-all.  I hope you are right about winning but I have to say that there are some very good teams in this state that will continue to be strong again next year.  It will be a tall order to beat the likes of Union, North Hardin, Fern Creek, Seneca and Woodford, just to name a few.  We'll have to see.  I will email Julian Tackett myself as well.  I know that it was not just Trinity that recieved the brunt of poor officiating from this referee.  I don't remember the school but I know another coach was livid over some calls in the consolation matches.

[rwr729 0]

I think in the case of a tap out or squealing out when you are on your back the match should be over. If not though it should be a 5 point call and if the wrestler that tapped can continue he should start in the same position that he was in at the time of the tap and in the center of the mat. That should cut down if not eliminate these type of stunts. I seriously question the heart of a wrestler that would stoop to this type of stunt. I have seen wrestlers from a region 1 school actually tap and when the match was stopped they looked over at a team mate and winked and grinned. 95 % of the kids work too hard to be cheated in this manner and the penalty should be harsh to the ones that choose to tarnish the reputation of ky. high school wrestling

[Sport Family 0]

Thank you I-pinned-em-all for an adult response.  I agree that Hitchings has done a lot for the sport especially at the middle school level.  I have been around a lot of youth sports and will continue to be and I can tell you that I have never seen as much confidence in a group of young kids as I did in the Fern Creek Optimist/Club team.  Mark, Jeff Branch and the other coaches and parents that helped taught some kids to wrestle that did not have an athletic bone in their body.  Some of these kids still compete at the high school  level and are very competitive but otherwise would have never played or enjoyed a sport in high school.  If Trinity does happen to win state next year, Seneca (Trent) will say it is a conspiracy and everybody in the stands except the Trinity faithful will BOOOO.  Thanks again for being positive about these tapping problems and the ref problems.  I hope their is a solution and nobody is pointing fingers at any certain teams or individuals.