Weight classification

[Jedigrappler 0]

I seen on track wrestling were a young wrestler at reg was at the top of his weight class.  Then the chart for state has him wrestling at the weight class where he is the lightest!.  This is ONE problem with the 10% rule.  Your 2 regionals have different weight classes because of the idiotic 10% rule so when you combine them at State tournament you end up with DIFFERENT WEIGHT CLASSES AS THE TWO REGIONALS.  There is not one thing positive about the 10% rule.  Demoralizing a youth regional champ who now has to move up a class is not enticing other youths to join.  How long has Ky. been behind the rest of the country.  #setweights

[heavy83 15]

It's only demoralizing to the parent

[Jedigrappler 0]

LMAO....Your comment reflects your ignorance on the subject.  Go bang your head on a wall then read the post again.  Maybe your comprehension will improve!.....or have someone read it to you, it'll make it easier!!  Make sure you listen very carefully.  Have them read real slow!lol

[Usawresstling 8]

I must agree with jedi

 

[gameface 253]

So I guess when your wrestler was the heaviest it was demoralizing to the other 7 kids in his weight class! And you didn't consider it an advantage?? If you stop and take a look at Kentucky wrestling last year, we had just under a 1000 youth wrestlers at state. And no it's not because we don't try and promote the sport. It's largely due to kids playing basketball or archery because it's easier and doesn't require parents to sit in a gym all day on Sunday. Or maybe the parents don't understand the benefits of wrestling. The City wide tourney in Cincinnati have more kids than our state and that's only Southwestern Ohio!! And yet the CYW uses 10% rules for their tourneys. OAC uses weight classes but also have qualifiers and enough kids to fill the brackets. There's not a corner of Ohio that doesn't have wrestling. But in Kentucky theres parts like Bowling Green and Southern Kentucky that wrestling doesn't exist. We've gone to 16 man brackets to make it more competitive. But again, their are weights and ages where you have 40 kids within 5lbs of each other and other weights you have 10. So we do the best we can with the numbers we have. I'm sure the couple pounds your Regional Champ is giving up is not enough to keep him from being successful. There's plenty of time when he's in MS and High School he'll get the joy of maintaining weight and skipping meals. Best of Luck at State to your son!! 

PS- and know I won't beat my head against the wall either!

[raidercoach 51]

2 hours ago, Jedigrappler said:

I seen on track wrestling were a young wrestler at reg was at the top of his weight class.  Then the chart for state has him wrestling at the weight class where he is the lightest!.  This is ONE problem with the 10% rule.  Your 2 regionals have different weight classes because of the idiotic 10% rule so when you combine them at State tournament you end up with DIFFERENT WEIGHT CLASSES AS THE TWO REGIONALS.  There is not one thing positive about the 10% rule.  Demoralizing a youth regional champ who now has to move up a class is not enticing other youths to join.  How long has Ky. been behind the rest of the country.  #setweights

We have looked at this extensively and with tournaments that use 10% rule, kids are wrestling kids closer in weight than they are compared to using set weight classes.  The biggest benefit in 10% rule is the advantage of being able to evenly distribute the weight classes so you don't have huge log jams at certain weights.  I assume you have never attempted to bracket a tournament with 1300 kids across a huge age group.  It is not easy with fixed weight classes.  In some instances using USA Wrestling weight classes, you would have over 60 kids in some weight classes.  Regardless of what you may think, that is at least "one thing positive about the 10% rule".  

I don't know you, but it sure looks as if you just aren't happy with your kid's bracket.  There is no way to make everyone happy.  You would be surprised how many people from across the state request "funny business" to the brackets.  The reality of it is, the people that do it just hit a button and the program does all the work.  The only "filter" added to the program is to attempt to separate first round matches between kids from the same region and that is easily done by moving kids from one side of the bracket to the other.

If any kid is "demoralized" by this then they are probably in the wrong sport.  The kids that are successful in this sport are the ones that show up and wrestle regardless of the circumstances.  This tournament will likely provide competition that is most evenly matched in age and weight compared to any other tournament they wrestle in their careers if they stick with it.  If they can't take it now, good luck wrestling against seniors when you're a freshman in high school.     

[ctown714 3]

I can only imagine how hard it must be to run a tournament with these type numbers. My question is say one of my kids weighs 81.50 and there is two weight divisions 81-86 and 78-82. He is placed in the 81-86 an is the lightest kid in that division which I have absolutely no problem with but there is a kid in the 78-82 class that weighs 82.40. Just curious as to how that is justified or is it simply a random computer placing type thing. Any insight would be appreciated

[MLee 68]

Ugh...here we go again!

As mentioned, the kids don't complain. I have coached a youth team of 70+ kids for 7 years...I haven't had 1 kid complain about 10% rule.  Not a single wrestler.  I have had many parents question it, but the masses have learned to accept it.  Every year a new batch of "newbie" parents get on the message boards and complain (usually because little Regional Champ got paired up with 5 X State Champ).  Demoralized?  Wow, that seems far fetched. 

I think a benefit of 10% is exactly what you complained about...it promotes wrestling different kids!  We attend the same tournaments against the same teams every weekend.  My son has only wrestled 1 kid twice all year.  Some weeks he's the biggest, some weeks he's the smallest.  What's wrong with that?

This year we used Track's own Block Template.  Yes, Track has the 10% format built in!  Wonder why?  Maybe other states and tournament directors see the benefits and flexibility of it.  So you think we're behind the times?  I'd argue when it comes to our state tournament, we might be ahead of the curve. 

Finally, explain to me how changing the way we bracket makes our wrestlers better? I guess all we need to do is use USA weight classes and our kids will have Burroughs blast double over night. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MLee 68]

14 minutes ago, ctown714 said:

I can only imagine how hard it must be to run a tournament with these type numbers. My question is say one of my kids weighs 81.50 and there is two weight divisions 81-86 and 78-82. He is placed in the 81-86 an is the lightest kid in that division which I have absolutely no problem with but there is a kid in the 78-82 class that weighs 82.40. Just curious as to how that is justified or is it simply a random computer placing type thing. Any insight would be appreciated

Last year, we started from the lightest to heaviest w/out exceeding 10% in every age group.  We did 16 man brackets and could have up to 4 kids per team in each bracket.  This forced us to manually generate each bracket....I did it, total pain in the arse.

This year, we used Track's template.  It automatically attempts to separate teammates.  Therefore, if you can move a kid up to the next bracket and pull a kid down to only have 1 per team per bracket and still keep it w/in 10%, it will.  The only draw back is you have overlap in weights and a little big larger spread rates. 

Personally, I don't mind it either way.  People don't like the overlaps (mainly conspiracy theorists), but nobody likes 4 kids from one club either. 

 

[ctown714 3]

4 minutes ago, MLee said:

Last year, we started from the lightest to heaviest w/out exceeding 10% in every age group.  We did 16 man brackets and could have up to 4 kids per team in each bracket.  This forced us to manually generate each bracket....I did it, total pain in the arse.

This year, we used Track's template.  It automatically attempts to separate teammates.  Therefore, if you can move a kid up to the next bracket and pull a kid down to only have 1 per team per bracket and still keep it w/in 10%, it will.  The only draw back is you have overlap it weights and a little big larger spread rates. 

Personally, I don't mind it either way.  People don't like the overlaps (mainly conspiracy theorists), but nobody likes 4 kids from one club either. 

 

Gotcha thanks for the response guess just kind of sucks when it happens like that and one of your kids is bumped an doesn't have a team mate in either weight class. And guessing in the 78-82 weight class should have really been called 78-82.40. 

[Jedigrappler 0]

#1. With weight classes set at 3lbs for most of an age group, let's say 6u starting at 37,40,43,46,49,52,55,58,61 will always be closer percentage wise than the current 10% rule.  Math is an exact science

2.  You should have set weight classes so YOU CANT arbitrarily manipulate brackets.  You have weight groups not classes. If you have a lot of entrants at certain weights then break them into multiple charts.  Like the rest of the country! Eliminate the perception of any "funny business. A point YOU raised.

#3. You got one thing right.  You don't know me.  

#4.  Wrong, I have no child wrestling.

#5. Your delusion that your way is easier to bracket is ludicris.  YOU DONT HAVE TO DO ANY ADJUSTMENTS TO ENSURE 2 kids from same reg don't meet in first round if you use standard weight classes. You hit a button and bam! Your done, no adjusting.  The perception of "funny business" is reality when someone has to arbitrarily adjust brackets.  Who decides how to move him here or her there? Arbitrary at the least!!

6. Success in the sport requires persistence.  Your systemic failure is a reason to not persist. Have your numbers grown?lol

6. You talk out of both sides of your mouth when you say a kid who gets demoralized may be in the wrong sport....not tough enough?? Then you talk about having evenly matched brackets in competion(smells of manipulation).  It's not you job to try to create parity in a weight division.  Saying that implies "funny business" exist.

7. Having standard weight classes ensures fairness in comparable size.  It's apparent to me there's people who love the power first and the best interest of every youth wrestler second! BAM....MIC DROP!!!!

[Jedigrappler 0]

1 hour ago, gameface said:

So I guess when your wrestler was the heaviest it was demoralizing to the other 7 kids in his weight class! And you didn't consider it an advantage?? If you stop and take a look at Kentucky wrestling last year, we had just under a 1000 youth wrestlers at state. And no it's not because we don't try and promote the sport. It's largely due to kids playing basketball or archery because it's easier and doesn't require parents to sit in a gym all day on Sunday. Or maybe the parents don't understand the benefits of wrestling. The City wide tourney in Cincinnati have more kids than our state and that's only Southwestern Ohio!! And yet the CYW uses 10% rules for their tourneys. OAC uses weight classes but also have qualifiers and enough kids to fill the brackets. There's not a corner of Ohio that doesn't have wrestling. But in Kentucky theres parts like Bowling Green and Southern Kentucky that wrestling doesn't exist. We've gone to 16 man brackets to make it more competitive. But again, their are weights and ages where you have 40 kids within 5lbs of each other and other weights you have 10. So we do the best we can with the numbers we have. I'm sure the couple pounds your Regional Champ is giving up is not enough to keep him from being successful. There's plenty of time when he's in MS and High School he'll get the joy of maintaining weight and skipping meals. Best of Luck at State to your son!! 

PS- and know I won't beat my head against the wall either!

 

[plantmanky1 58]

9 minutes ago, Jedigrappler said:

#1. With weight classes set at 3lbs for most of an age group, let's say 6u starting at 37,40,43,46,49,52,55,58,61 will always be closer percentage wise than the current 10% rule.  Math is an exact science

2.  You should have set weight classes so YOU CANT arbitrarily manipulate brackets.  You have weight groups not classes. If you have a lot of entrants at certain weights then break them into multiple charts.  Like the rest of the country! Eliminate the perception of any "funny business. A point YOU raised.

#3. You got one thing right.  You don't know me.  

#4.  Wrong, I have no child wrestling.

#5. Your delusion that your way is easier to bracket is ludicris.  YOU DONT HAVE TO DO ANY ADJUSTMENTS TO ENSURE 2 kids from same reg don't meet in first round if you use standard weight classes. You hit a button and bam! Your done, no adjusting.  The perception of "funny business" is reality when someone has to arbitrarily adjust brackets.  Who decides how to move him here or her there? Arbitrary at the least!!

6. Success in the sport requires persistence.  Your systemic failure is a reason to not persist. Have your numbers grown?lol

6. You talk out of both sides of your mouth when you say a kid who gets demoralized may be in the wrong sport....not tough enough?? Then you talk about having evenly matched brackets in competion(smells of manipulation).  It's not you job to try to create parity in a weight division.  Saying that implies "funny business" exist.

7. Having standard weight classes ensures fairness in comparable size.  It's apparent to me there's people who love the power first and the best interest of every youth wrestler second! BAM....MIC DROP!!!!

Anybody else see it?  

[Jedigrappler 0]

GAMEFACE, point was safety, wrestling one div all year to be arbitrarily bumped to  heavy division.  The point of regionals is to qualify for state.  Bumping one kid creates a dominoe effect, moving many kids up.  Quit drinking the kool-aid and think for yourself. Bam mic drop!!

[MLee 68]

13 minutes ago, Jedigrappler said:

#1. With weight classes set at 3lbs for most of an age group, let's say 6u starting at 37,40,43,46,49,52,55,58,61 will always be closer percentage wise than the current 10% rule.  Math is an exact science

2.  You should have set weight classes so YOU CANT arbitrarily manipulate brackets.  You have weight groups not classes. If you have a lot of entrants at certain weights then break them into multiple charts.  Like the rest of the country! Eliminate the perception of any "funny business. A point YOU raised.

#3. You got one thing right.  You don't know me.  

#4.  Wrong, I have no child wrestling.

#5. Your delusion that your way is easier to bracket is ludicris.  YOU DONT HAVE TO DO ANY ADJUSTMENTS TO ENSURE 2 kids from same reg don't meet in first round if you use standard weight classes. You hit a button and bam! Your done, no adjusting.  The perception of "funny business" is reality when someone has to arbitrarily adjust brackets.  Who decides how to move him here or her there? Arbitrary at the least!!

6. Success in the sport requires persistence.  Your systemic failure is a reason to not persist. Have your numbers grown?lol

6. You talk out of both sides of your mouth when you say a kid who gets demoralized may be in the wrong sport....not tough enough?? Then you talk about having evenly matched brackets in competion(smells of manipulation).  It's not you job to try to create parity in a weight division.  Saying that implies "funny business" exist.

7. Having standard weight classes ensures fairness in comparable size.  It's apparent to me there's people who love the power first and the best interest of every youth wrestler second! BAM....MIC DROP!!!!

BANTAM Born 2008-2009 Two two-minute periods with 30 second rest between periods
Championship and Consolation: 3 one-minute periods
40, 45, 50, 55, 60, 65, 70, 75, 75+ (15 lbs. maximum difference)
INTERMEDIATE Born 2006-2007 Two two-minute periods with 30 second rest between periods
Championship and Consolation: 3 one-minute periods
50, 55, 60, 65, 70, 75, 80, 87, 95, 103, 112, 120, 120+ (20 lbs.max difference)
NOVICE Born 2004-2005 Two two-minute periods with 30 second rest between periods
Championship: 1 one-minute and 2 1:30 periods; Consolation: 3 oneminute periods
60, 65, 70, 75, 80, 85, 90, 95, 100, 105, 112, 120, 130, 140, 140+ (25 lbs. maximum difference)
SCHOOLBOY Born 2002-2003 Two two-minute periods with 30 second rest between periods
Championship: 1 one-minute and 2 1:30 periods; Consolation: 3 oneminute periods
70, 77, 84, 91, 98, 105, 112, 120, 128, 136, 144, 152, 160, 175, 190, 210, 265
 

Those are the current USA weight classes.  Now, Mr. Mic dropper, please explain to me where you came up with your brilliant 3 # weight class concept?  Why not 2 #?  Heck, lets make it 1#

[MLee 68]

Why can't you understand...smallest to biggest, not exceeding 10%, 16 man brackets.  That is not "manipulation."  It's not even very complicated.  You enter the ages, weights, and then...you press a button! 

[raidercoach 51]

3 hours ago, Jedigrappler said:

I seen on track wrestling were a young wrestler at reg was at the top of his weight class.  Then the chart for state has him wrestling at the weight class where he is the lightest!.  This is ONE problem with the 10% rule.  Your 2 regionals have different weight classes because of the idiotic 10% rule so when you combine them at State tournament you end up with DIFFERENT WEIGHT CLASSES AS THE TWO REGIONALS.  There is not one thing positive about the 10% rule.  Demoralizing a youth regional champ who now has to move up a class is not enticing other youths to join.  How long has Ky. been behind the rest of the country.  #setweights

We have looked at this extensively and with tournaments that use 10% rule, kids are wrestling kids closer in weight than they are compared to using set weight classes.  The biggest benefit in 10% rule is the advantage of being able to evenly distribute the weight classes so you don't have huge log jams at certain weights.  I assume you have never attempted to bracket a tournament with 1300 kids across a huge age group.  It is not easy with fixed weight classes.  In some instances using USA Wrestling weight classes, you would have over 60 kids in some weight classes.  Regardless of what you may think, that is at least "one thing positive about the 10% rule".  

I don't know you, but it sure looks as if you just aren't happy with your kid's bracket.  There is no way to make everyone happy.  You would be surprised how many people from across the state request "funny business" to the brackets.  The reality of it is, the people that do it just hit a button and the program does all the work.  The only "filter" added to the program is to attempt to separate first round matches between kids from the same region and that is easily done by moving kids from one side of the bracket to the other.

If any kid is "demoralized" by this then they are probably in the wrong sport.  The kids that are successful in this sport are the ones that show up and wrestle regardless of the circumstances.  This tournament will likely provide competition that is most evenly matched in age and weight compared to any other tournament they wrestle in their careers if they stick with it.  If they can't take it now, good luck wrestling against seniors when you're a freshman in high school.     

4 minutes ago, Jedigrappler said:

#1. With weight classes set at 3lbs for most of an age group, let's say 6u starting at 37,40,43,46,49,52,55,58,61 will always be closer percentage wise than the current 10% rule.  Math is an exact science

2.  You should have set weight classes so YOU CANT arbitrarily manipulate brackets.  You have weight groups not classes. If you have a lot of entrants at certain weights then break them into multiple charts.  Like the rest of the country! Eliminate the perception of any "funny business. A point YOU raised.

#3. You got one thing right.  You don't know me.  

#4.  Wrong, I have no child wrestling.

#5. Your delusion that your way is easier to bracket is ludicris.  YOU DONT HAVE TO DO ANY ADJUSTMENTS TO ENSURE 2 kids from same reg don't meet in first round if you use standard weight classes. You hit a button and bam! Your done, no adjusting.  The perception of "funny business" is reality when someone has to arbitrarily adjust brackets.  Who decides how to move him here or her there? Arbitrary at the least!!

6. Success in the sport requires persistence.  Your systemic failure is a reason to not persist. Have your numbers grown?lol

6. You talk out of both sides of your mouth when you say a kid who gets demoralized may be in the wrong sport....not tough enough?? Then you talk about having evenly matched brackets in competion(smells of manipulation).  It's not you job to try to create parity in a weight division.  Saying that implies "funny business" exist.

7. Having standard weight classes ensures fairness in comparable size.  It's apparent to me there's people who love the power first and the best interest of every youth wrestler second! BAM....MIC DROP!!!!

1. USA Wrestling weight classes basically use a 5lb increment between weight classes...you are suggesting 3lbs, yet you want to be like "the rest of the world".  I think the consensus debate between using 10% rule or USA Wrestling weights.  You can make up your own weight classes in an attempt to win an argument, but no one is going to go along with your proposed weights unless there are others using them. 

2. There is no arbitrary manipulating of brackets.  It was clearly explained how they are done, it is very simple with no "funny business" even though many request and suggest there is. 

6.  (3-5 was just nonsense dribble filled with horrible grammar and misspelled words)  The growth this state has seen in youth wrestling over the last 10 years is staggering.  If you need "exact science math", I'll be glad to share it with you.  

7.  I can't say it more clearly:  kids of this state tournament will likely never wrestle in a tournament of this size that matches competition as close in age and size for the rest of their careers. It doesn't get more fair than that.  The people who help run this tournament are so glad to not be involved with it moving forward because it is a thankless job because of people like you who do nothing but bitch and complain.  While you will likely be up in the stands eating hot dogs and drinking soda, the people you are criticizing will be working their butts off,  on basically no sleep, won't have time to coach their own kids, just to provide a great day of wrestling for the state. So pick up your mic and stick it up your pathetic, whiny ass.    

[MLee 68]

1st Annual Mic Dropper Tournament.

Weight Classes:

30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 52, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60.........

 

[raidercoach 51]

17 minutes ago, plantmanky1 said:

Anybody else see it?  

Haha...it took me a second, but nice catch.  

[gameface 253]

17 minutes ago, Jedigrappler said:

GAMEFACE, point was safety, wrestling one div all year to be arbitrarily bumped to  heavy division.  The point of regionals is to qualify for state.  Bumping one kid creates a dominoe effect, moving many kids up.  Quit drinking the kool-aid and think for yourself. Bam mic drop!!

JediGrappler obviously your drinking the kool-aid with vodka!! No one qualifies for youth state. You pay your fee, show up and wrestle Regionals and your automatically in State. There's no seeding no qualifiers. And since you don't have a wrestler that's affected by this monopoly of coaches loading brackets to win the coveted Youth State Championship, you might want to apply for President!! You must be on such a level that PA and Iowa are missing you!! Maybe you can bring your wisdom to one of our state meetings and share your ideas. With your witty " Bam mic drop"  humor we could use the side show while the rest of the productive coaches around the state actually try and grow Kentucky's numbers! 

[Jedigrappler 0]

Brilliant!  Why don't you use them?? Makes to much sense?? Bam!!

Tulsa Nationals is were I got it!bam!!

Nuway is where I got it!bam!!

you post USA weight classes! Why?  you don't use them

your not ahead of the curve!! Your being lapped.  The lead is nearly out of reach!

Your a lot newer to the sport or just a box of rocks.  Quit drinking the cool-aid! Bam! Mic drop

[MLee 68]

 

 

34 minutes ago, Jedigrappler said:

#1. With weight classes set at 3lbs for most of an age group, let's say 6u starting at 37,40,43,46,49,52,55,58,61 will always be closer percentage wise than the current 10% rule.  Math is an exact science

2.  You should have set weight classes so YOU CANT arbitrarily manipulate brackets.  You have weight groups not classes. If you have a lot of entrants at certain weights then break them into multiple charts.  Like the rest of the country! Eliminate the perception of any "funny business. A point YOU raised.

#3. You got one thing right.  You don't know me.  

#4.  Wrong, I have no child wrestling.

#5. Your delusion that your way is easier to bracket is ludicris.  YOU DONT HAVE TO DO ANY ADJUSTMENTS TO ENSURE 2 kids from same reg don't meet in first round if you use standard weight classes. You hit a button and bam! Your done, no adjusting.  The perception of "funny business" is reality when someone has to arbitrarily adjust brackets.  Who decides how to move him here or her there? Arbitrary at the least!!

6. Success in the sport requires persistence.  Your systemic failure is a reason to not persist. Have your numbers grown?lol

6. You talk out of both sides of your mouth when you say a kid who gets demoralized may be in the wrong sport....not tough enough?? Then you talk about having evenly matched brackets in competion(smells of manipulation).  It's not you job to try to create parity in a weight division.  Saying that implies "funny business" exist.

7. Having standard weight classes ensures fairness in comparable size.  It's apparent to me there's people who love the power first and the best interest of every youth wrestler second! BAM....MIC DROP!!!!

Anyone that is having a hard time counting to 7 should probably refrain from lecturing others about math.

[plantmanky1 58]

30 minutes ago, Jedigrappler said:

GAMEFACE, point was safety, wrestling one div all year to be arbitrarily bumped to  heavy division.  The point of regionals is to qualify for state.  Bumping one kid creates a dominoe effect, moving many kids up.  Quit drinking the kool-aid and think for yourself. Bam mic drop!!

Ok does anybody else want to see gameface dressed as the kool aid man running around yelling "OH YEAH"

 

 

[MLee 68]

8 minutes ago, Jedigrappler said:

 

Brilliant!  Why don't you use them?? Makes to much sense?? Bam!!

Tulsa Nationals is were I got it!bam!!

Nuway is where I got it!bam!!

you post USA weight classes! Why?  you don't use them

your not ahead of the curve!! Your being lapped.  The lead is nearly out of reach!

Your a lot newer to the sport or just a box of rocks.  Quit drinking the cool-aid! Bam! Mic drop

Now let's move to today's English lesson:

too, where, you're, you're, you're

[raidercoach 51]

2 minutes ago, Jedigrappler said:

Brilliant!  Why don't you use them?? Makes to much sense?? Bam!!

Tulsa Nationals is were I got it!bam!!

Nuway is where I got it!bam!!

you post USA weight classes! Why?  you don't use them

your not ahead of the curve!! Your being lapped.  The lead is nearly out of reach!

Your a lot newer to the sport or just a box of rocks.  Quit drinking the cool-aid! Bam! Mic drop

Please, for the love of God, learn the difference between "to" -"too" and "your" - "you're".  It would also help if you knew how to count to 8 when talking about math being an "exact science".  I am 39 years old and have been around wrestling since I was in the 3rd grade.  I would imagine based on your use of # and "drop the mic", I've probably been around this sport longer than you and likely with more success.  Check your spelling and grammar before you call people "box of rocks".