Youth Holiday Classic - 12/16/12

[raidercoach 51]

So the entire raider youth program couldn't find one person to attend and express you side? I expressed my opinion. No charge was lead. I showed up. We talked about it. An voted. I didn't speak to others prior to gain votes. Honestly I have little more vested interest than you. Both of my boys are participating at the middle school level.

I can't speak for the other coaches, but I have no interest in changing anything so I don't feel the need to attend meetings. However, now that it is clear there is a systematic attack on the original bylaws you might start seeing me more to at least defend them. For the record, my hat's off to everyone that does go to meetings and everyone that coaches. I don't publically attempt to trivialize those that volunteer their time to our sport.

RaiderCoach for President 2013

[Ranger123 43]

No systematic attack. Simply the democratic process at work. A majority of coaches that attend the meetings feel some change is best.

[IWIN 49]

Ok, if I need to throw my vote out there, Ranger for prez, 2013!!! Sorry Raider, but u closed the poles too early.

[J.W. 21]

You guys claim to encourage "adult conversation" on this site and are clearly defending JW's comments about how we ran our tournament. If you take the time to go back to the beginning of these posts and read JW's comments, he admitted that he was baiting us into this debate. He went out of his way to criticize the way we run our tournament on the eve of our event

Raidercoach: For the record- I posted that 2 days prior to your event, so it was not about your event. Furthermore it is about every event that is ran the same way in Kentucky, not just yours. Not your tournament....all of them. Doing things the way they are done promote the spread of ringworm and other skin infections. Nobody checks skin, nails, hair, etc...all because we don't want to take the time to do weigh ins - which is a good place to check those things. We spend more time redoing brackets because of mistakes....could be cured by weigh-ins because you know the kid is there. It is my opinion and it does hold alot of facts and experience, I too have been around wrestling for a few minutes as were you. I did give it an opportunity last year as it was my first year in Kentucky. But my youth wrestling experience is spread to far more states than Kentucky and the CYWL.

I did not necessarily admit to baiting you in.... just figured you would be the first to jump at the chance because you are very close minded about changing what you hold so emotionally. It is odd that nobody else got involved. Unless they are all open minded and willing to think about change.

Secondly, my only post the night after your event was on the Kentucky Youth Wrestling Facebook page where I gave you guys credit for running a good tournament.

And C: I will remain passionate about trying to better the organization that I am a part of, not trying to defend the "way it has always been" mentality. If you really want to see the numbers go down, continue to not be flexible and somebody will start a new league under USA or NUWAY or something else, and you will see a complete split. I would recommend we work together as there are some good things going on.

And it does not have to be modeled after West Virginia, there are many other states that choose to hold youth wrestlers to a standard.

Anyways - I agree with Matt about respecting all that are involved, we are all doing good things, but I don't make this about me, I make it about bettering the sport and the league.

[J.W. 21]

That being said, we wrestle in TN and have to weigh in at every tournament. We are reguired to be registered by thursday night before the tournament by division and weight class. We DO NOT CUT WEIGHT. I know there are some that do just as there are coaches and parents that have kids cut with the 10% tournaments. The smallest we went to last year had a little over 500 kids. There are usually around 800 kids. These tournaments have drawn over a thousand participants.

Wow - I think that says it all. Over 500 kids and weigh-ins and not in West Virginia. Our bordering states are more proficient than us.

Thanks for the post Yankees. We just need to have people realize that it can be done and there are positive reasons for it.

[kyor74 0]

Wow, this has been a pretty passionate posting thread. Now for my two cents. We moved to KY last year and was appaulled at how some of the things are ran in wrstling there. Part of it had to do with the program we where in and the horrible coach we had to deal with. There are alot of politics and I'm also speaking middle school (not youth), there are too many tournaments ran as duals. Under USA wrestling opens you have EVERY kid have the opportuinty to wrestle every weekend. You want the sport to grow, give every kid that works his or her butt off during the week a chance to wrestle on the weekends. Now I know whats coming, you will have beginner kids get beat by good kids and the good kids don't get good competition. Well facing the best is where you get better for the beginner (they all start somewhere) and with opens the better kids get good wrestlers by the end of the day. I've mentioned this before and Ranger was the first to rebutt me with long days and bad ran tournaments. My suggestion to that is what has happened in other states. Bring in the age groups at different times. Have bantam and intermediate come in early and wrestle. Then in mid-day bring in the novice and schoolboy/schoolgirl to wrestle. The days are shorter per family and every kid gets a opportuinity to compete. Also don't require kids to where just there team singlets (expect for districts, regions, and state), allow them to where whatever singlet they want. Some kids really get a kick out of that and it gives them just another reason to have interest. I'm not trying to burn any bridges with anyone. I just know where we came from that we had tournaments with over 1000 kids on at least 7 or 8 different weekends a season. Personally, the North Oldham tournament was by far the best tournament we wrestled in all of last year.

Now on a more positive note, other than the way tournaments are run and the agenda of some coaches. I do believe that the talent across the state at the top was much better than we had expected. So in some aspects the sport is growing by leaps and bounds in KY. But if you want the next level of kid to continue to get better and the gap to close, give every kid a chance to compete.

Once again, I hope I didn't ruffle any feathers or offend anyone. This is just an opinion. I do wish everyone the best for this season and hope you guys find the best way to continue to grow the sport in your state.

[J.W. 21]

Once again, I hope I didn't ruffle any feathers or offend anyone. This is just an opinion.

It is the Kentucky Wrestling Forum - every statement ruffles somebody's feathers. Just curious on your opinion, what age is the right age for everyone to not get an at bat. And I don't mean that rudely, but baseball everyone should get to play. Wrestling by High School is wrestle off's. If you don't agree with MS running like High School, what age is the right age. The Sunday tournaments do exactly what you stated above, they are brackets, they have morning and afternoon, and they allow JV Middle School wrestlers to compete and they can wear any singlet they want. I think that the combination between the Saturday and Sunday tournaments give a good mix, but I am not sure of your location and experience with the team that you mentioned.

You are correct that this thread has been popular and all this over a prediction.

[kyor74 0]

I'm just talking about having your sport grow, with talent all around at all levels. And I believe the right age is high school. Trust me, where we moved from has to be doing something right because there are currently wrestlers from there wrestling at Minnesota, Lehigh, Illinois, Stanford, Arizona State, Boise State, and Oregon State just to name a few. That's not by accident. Also, I'm not trying to promote the everybody wins process. I'm trying to offer suggestions to grow the sport and keep interest. In Kentucky you are always going to compete against basketball and need to do whatever it takes to draw interest to youth. So making kids wrestle every weekend before they have even hit maturity is tough. Give them all a opportunity to COMPETE, not win, to keep more kids involved. It doesn't effect my son either way, we have traveled to Reno Worlds, Regionals, and even Freestyle and Greco Nationals to compete. And he has placed in several of thes tourneys. It doesn't hurt me, just keep thinking inside the box and talking about how the sport has grown in the state, while the surrounding states still sit WAY ahead.

[marriedtothemat 13]

Kyor74, I'm a little confused. In one post you say USA events give EVERY kid the opportunity to wrestle Every weekend and in your next post you say making kids wrestle every weekend before they have hit maturity is tough. so are you wanting every kid to be able to wrestle every weekend or not?

Since you made a comment about middle school wrestling and both my sons now wrestle middle school I will focus on that. On my sons' team, spots are determined by wrestle-offs, no politics involved. A kid is never forced to wrestle at an event by a coach. They are free to opt out of wrestles off and competition as they and/or their parents see fit. Every kid is wrestling almost every weekend, even with some weights 5 kids deep. Many tournaments allow coaches to enter extra kids, we host some of our own events which allow every kid to wrestle, and duals allow for the coaches to make adjustments so that every kid sees mat time.

I also love the team aspect of middle school wrestling. As youth, my kids never really felt like part of the team because different age groups were at events at different times and many of the events divided the mats into two gyms. They didn't have the opportunity to support their teammates because everyone was divided up. Duals allow every kid to feel like a member of a team. We win as a team and we lose as a team. Every kid works hard in the practice room and contributes what they can to the team. Our champions wouldn't be champions without the hard work of everyone in the practice room. So when we win a dual everyone is a winner and everyone is treated equally. To see the kid that rarely wins a match face light up when he receives a team trophy is amazing. Duals are my favorite part of the regular season. It gets all the kids and parents involved in supporting their team. It would be a shame for kids to miss out on the importance of being part of a team and wearing that team singlet with pride.

Off season events are the time for kids to wear their own singlets and participate in any event they choose.

[kyor74 0]

I said wrestle every weekend, sorry. I meant wrestle off every week to wrestle evey weekend. Also with opens over duals every child no matter how good gets an opportunity to wrestle more than just once and the more they advance the more they get to wrestle. I understand that you guys may like the way it is currently done but to close the gaps between the bottom kids and the top that comes with mat experience. It's not the same in the room as it is during tournaments. Granted you improve technique in the practice room but it is not the same as competing in tournaments against kids that you don't work with everyday at practice. Also as kids get older and know when to show up to the mat without having to be told, they still get the opportunity to cheer on teammates.

[marriedtothemat 13]

Actually in an open each child is only guaranteed to wrestle twice. You lose 2 your out. Duals offer a guaranteed number of matches. I think it is important for wrestlers to experience both type of events in order to prepare them for high school. They are plenty of open tournaments throughout the year that can be entered if one chooses.

[PARVUSNUMERO 0]

I have looked all over to enter my kids in tournaments but the focus around northern KY is duals to let the good kids wrestle. They still get a chance to wrestle good matches in the semi finals and in the finals. When you have a team of 4 it is hard to find places to wrestle. If we really want to build the sport in KY we need more open tournaments. Out of the few kids I have I think they might be able compete but if not let us get our 2 matches and go home.

[J.W. 21]

PARVUSNUMERO - Not undercutting your situation, but I think there is a decent mix around the state. John Hardin, North Hardin, Summit View, Bearcat Brawl, Hopkinsville, Christian County are all bracketed tournaments all on different dates and probably a few more that I am missing. Take those with District and Regional and you can fill 8 weeks of a schedule with nothing but brackets. For a small team as you mention having - it gives you the ability to hit some out of state tourneys on the other weeks and you could have a pretty tough schedule for your boys.

Again I respect your opinion, I just think the balance between duals and brackets are pretty good right now. I think if you contact the tourney directors off of the master list and willing to put quite a few miles on your car (NKY to Hopkinsville is lengthy) you can put a good schedule together, but it all depends on what you are looking for.

[PARVUSNUMERO 0]

J.W thanks for your input. I went to North Harding. Summit View said they would get back to me and still haven't. Bearcat Brawl is going to be a great one but I have one that might be able to compete there and they tried to charge me 150 for him. I will be at both tournaments in Hopkinsville. In Ohio they have to be in 7 and 8 grade. I have went to TN to wrestle. The other one you forgot is Woodford Jan 1. The problem is there was a month from North Harding to the next Open Tournament.

[J.W. 21]

Yeah, it would be better if we could manage to get them every other week at least. It would help the smaller schools / clubs to participate and grow. I am guessing that there are some opportunities for other clubs paying attention to pick up some tourney dates next year.

[trithis 34]

J.W thanks for your input. I went to North Harding. Summit View said they would get back to me and still haven't. Bearcat Brawl is going to be a great one but I have one that might be able to compete there and they tried to charge me 150 for him. I will be at both tournaments in Hopkinsville. In Ohio they have to be in 7 and 8 grade. I have went to TN to wrestle. The other one you forgot is Woodford Jan 1. The problem is there was a month from North Harding to the next Open Tournament.

Just to clarify the 2012 Bearcat Brawl charges $150 for a team, not for an individual to compete...if there is an opening. PM sent to PARVUSNUMERO to bring up his wrestler if he is willing to wrestle.

[PARVUSNUMERO 0]

I would like to clairfy my post from earlier on the Bearcat Brawl they did not try to charge me 150 for a wrestler to compete but they were able to fit my wrestler in. This speaks highly the type of program they are when they go out of the way to make wrestling possible for 1 kid who works hard to be able to compete.

Thanks V.W.

[Bluesdad 73]

Were extending the deadline till the 13th would love to see all of you there. Thanks

[raidercoach 51]

Raidercoach: For the record- I posted that 2 days prior to your event, so it was not about your event. Furthermore it is about every event that is ran the same way in Kentucky, not just yours. Not your tournament....all of them. Doing things the way they are done promote the spread of ringworm and other skin infections. Nobody checks skin, nails, hair, etc...all because we don't want to take the time to do weigh ins - which is a good place to check those things. We spend more time redoing brackets because of mistakes....could be cured by weigh-ins because you know the kid is there. It is my opinion and it does hold alot of facts and experience, I too have been around wrestling for a few minutes as were you. I did give it an opportunity last year as it was my first year in Kentucky. But my youth wrestling experience is spread to far more states than Kentucky and the CYWL.

I did not necessarily admit to baiting you in.... just figured you would be the first to jump at the chance because you are very close minded about changing what you hold so emotionally. It is odd that nobody else got involved. Unless they are all open minded and willing to think about change.

Secondly, my only post the night after your event was on the Kentucky Youth Wrestling Facebook page where I gave you guys credit for running a good tournament.

And C: I will remain passionate about trying to better the organization that I am a part of, not trying to defend the "way it has always been" mentality. If you really want to see the numbers go down, continue to not be flexible and somebody will start a new league under USA or NUWAY or something else, and you will see a complete split. I would recommend we work together as there are some good things going on.

And it does not have to be modeled after West Virginia, there are many other states that choose to hold youth wrestlers to a standard.

Anyways - I agree with Matt about respecting all that are involved, we are all doing good things, but I don't make this about me, I make it about bettering the sport and the league.

JW,

You call me close minded yet you are the one criticizing the way other people run their tournament. To say that we dont hold our youth tournaments to a standard is insulting and untrue. Just like everything else, you have zero evidence to support your claim that we "promote the spread of skin infections". I'd love to see your data on that outrageous claim.

The facts are we've done everything you are proposing in the past. Our by laws were created in 2006 after years of trial and error. The reality of it is, they were created to prevent people like yourself who didn't experience our early growing pains from coming in and changing things to they way they were. We need to preserve those by laws so we don't fight the same fight every three years or so as youth coaches move up to middle and high school. I am all for change when it's needed. Our growth has been incredible and these recent changes will hurt our growth.

At the end of the day, we will have high turnover at the youth level with coaches. We have an association that has by laws to preserve the standards that our association agreed to years ago after making many mistakes. The results speak for themselves. That's why if you actually talk to the guys who created our by laws, they laugh at us because we are fighting about the same things they fought over and resolved years ago.