Kentucky Wrestling

[wrestler4life 0]

Whats your thoughts on the improvement of wrestling in Kentucky?  I believe in the past few years Kentucky has made a great leap to improve our beloved sport.  The youth level programs that have been started will really pay off in the coming years.  I see a bright future ahead for the State. :-D

[overtimeking 0]

yeah it has improved alto i think there are alot of guys that could compete at national tournaments and stuff like

sullivan

courtney

cooper

wolsifer

lewis

alot ofguys thats just a few i think in 5 more years kentucky wrestling will be as good as any others

[Broke Back Wrestler 0]

Kentucky has made huge strides towards becoming a better state at high school wrestling.  We still have a long way to go if we want to be a national powerhouse like Pennsylvania or Ohio, but in the last 5 years we have closed the gap between states like Tennessee and Indiana a considerable amount.  We haven't really seen the effect of getting our youth programs going because they've only started in the last couple of years.  But once these kids are in high school Kentucky will definitely not be considered a weak state when it comes to wrestling.  Like I said were still not where we could be but we've made monumental strides in the last 5 years and all people affiliated with high school wrestling in Kentucky should be very proud.

[TeamJesus316 0]

I think the first thing that has to change is the rule about not being able to coach your high school wrestlers year around.  All the toughest teams and states in the US wrestle year around.  I do not agree with forcing kids to wrestle year around, but I believe it is a big mistake to not offer it year around.  Just my thoughts though.

[pioneer_pride 1]

I think the first thing that has to change is the rule about not being able to coach your high school wrestlers year around.  All the toughest teams and states in the US wrestle year around.  I do not agree with forcing kids to wrestle year around, but I believe it is a big mistake to not offer it year around.  Just my thoughts though.

You're 100% right about this rule.  It puts our state in a pretty serious disadvantage.  Some coach told me once that this rule was mostly created for other sports such as basketball....but they applied across the state.  I'm not sure why they made it for basketball...the khsaa may have a good reason for that....but I think that wrestling is just a way more technical sport than most others, and to compete at a national level...it just takes a lot of time, practice, and COACHING to get to that level.  Summer wrestling has not been very big in this state, but i think it's improving.

[Guest DAWG6]

I agree the rule is stupid, but some coaches abused policies and probably made things mandatory when they legally had no right to force kids to participate or get cut. 

Their are many coaches that would abuse kids, look now how regulated conditioning and practicing etc are.  Not ALL Coaches do stupid things; but the ones that have make it tough for the honest ones.

Kids that want to wrestle have options and clubs to participate.  Yes, the head coach can't run it; but many of the same parent coaches do and its great for the programs.  Wayne County is heavy in summer wrestling not all of them but the ones that are worth mentioning all wrestled, NO-OX in Hardin County had allot of local school participate, Louisville, Lexington area kids, Union and others; sorry if I didn't mention your program.  But we are getting BETTER. Thank you

Heck we had a "GREAT PROBLEM" this summer we had to many tournament.  The problems was coordination of weekends.  We hurt our programs when we booked events the same day (some events were cancelled) and other area tournaments.  We are going in the right directions just continue to support KY wrestling and not worry about personal validation.

[grappler-of-old 44]

Kids that want to wrestle have options and clubs to participate.  Yes, the head coach can't run it; but many of the same parent coaches do and its great for the programs. 

Not 100% true.  Some areas and teams have no-one to take the summer team except the high school coach.  If they are not able to run the practice then no-one will. 

I don't want to start a discussion about that.  My point is if the head coach is able to coach.  Schools will open their doors to allow practice in their buildings and more areas/teams will be able to have open gyms at their school.

[kdsmith27 14]

your right on, Grappler, Many Summer programs have to pay for the Gym to have a tournament. With the Head Coach involved, This will not happen because it involves High School. This was one of the reasons the Dan Gable Series was so spread out. (Finding a gym) I think though, the more we start (asking) for the gym during the summer months, instead of Basketball using it all summer. It will start to become easier. Most of us have never asked for the gym in off season. Any good AD will see they need to start to share and make time available.

[pioneer_pride 1]

I agree the rule is stupid, but some coaches abused policies and probably made things mandatory when they legally had no right to force kids to participate or get cut.

I still don't feel that's a good reason for this rule.  99% of the time, the coach knows what's best for the kid.  If a coach wants to build a successful program and he wants to make some things in the off season mandatory such as weight lifting, camps, tournaments, or a summer program...i say more power to him.  Kids that are dedicated and serious about their sport will not complain if it's legal or not.  They'll be there with a smile on their face.  I don't see the 15-20 kids from Wayne County that drive all over during the summer complaining about their mandatory tourneys.  (not sure if they are mandatory or not, just using them as an example...i assume they are since they have such good attendance). 

Also, making things mandatory is the norm in other sports in successful programs.  At my son's school, cheerleaders are required to go to off season gymnastics....at about $500....if you don't do it, you will NOT be even considered for a varsity spot.  I don't think wrestling should be any different.  I say kudos to the coaches who draw a line in the dirt and hold their ground on making things mandatory in the summer.

Not trying to attack you Dawg, i just feel like making laws that keeps a coach from doing good things for their team & sport is not a good idea.

[kdsmith27 14]

There is one thing that our sport has, that no other sport has that makes a difference with off season wrestling. Wrestling coaches don't have the same leverage as other sports. [glow=red,2,300]WE DON"T CUT PEOPLE[/glow]. Other sports have this leverage. True, if you are dedicated to the sport, you will participate. There is no true consequence for missing. except you fall behind in training and experience. Of course the coach will use this against him at the beginning of the season, but are you going to cut him from the team for lack of summer participation?

[Guest DAWG6]

Posted by: pioneer_pride

Not trying to attack you Dawg, i just feel like making laws that keeps a coach from doing good things for their team & sport is not a good idea.

Pioneer-pride, Not offended, I disagree with the rule, as you do.

I was just stating my understanding as to why they have the rule, not that I agree with it.  We have many great coaches that practice what they preach and the results show in the program history.

[pioneer_pride 1]

There is one thing that our sport has, that no other sport has, that makes a different with off season wrestling. Wrestling coaches don't have the same leverage as other sports. [glow=red,2,300]WE DON"T CUT PEOPLE[/glow]. Other sports have this leverage. True, if you are dedicated to the sport, you will participate. There is no true consequence for missing. except you fall behind in training and experience. Of course the coach will use this against him at the beginning of the season, but are you going to cut him from the team for lack of summer participation?

We don't cut people because most programs don't have the luxury of being choosy.  I believe that's going to change soon (next 5-10 years).  With all the middle school & youth wrestling going on, i think programs will become deeper and be able to boot a kid off for whatever reason and replace them with a decent experienced...younger...wrestler.  It will be a culture shift for sure, but at some point varsity coaches will wake up and realize they don't have to kiss a bunch of kids' (_*_)....or compromise their morals for a kid who skips 1-2 days of pracitce per week.  Ok, i'll get off my soapbox now.

[grappler-of-old 44]

Also, making things mandatory is the norm in other sports in successful programs.  At my son's school, cheerleaders are required to go to off season gymnastics....at about $500....if you don't do it, you will NOT be even considered for a varsity spot.  I don't think wrestling should be any different.  I say kudos to the coaches who draw a line in the dirt and hold their ground on making things mandatory in the summer.

I'm not sure how your sons school can get away with this.  (I hear discrimination in that tactic).  

Think about this pioneer.  The reason Boone Co. does not have a wrestling team is because of thier old football coach.  He made it manditory that his football players lift wieghts in the off season.  If any of them wrestled they would NOT make the football squad or if they did, get playing time.  

$$$ and time is the issue here.  Many high school kids play several different sports.  If they were forced to participate in all of these in the off season they would be forced to become a 1 sport kid.  

IMO any high school coach that forces a kid to decide which sport to participate in, is doing an injustice to the kids on his/her team.  

Opportunity however is another thing all together.  If head coaches were able to hold optional practices in the off season this could help his/her program.  Those kids who have made their own choice to:  1.  Dedicate all thier time to one sport and 2. Committed themselves to become a better player in thier sport.  (I'm not just talking about wrestling, but all sports)

[pioneer_pride 1]

We have many great coaches that practice what they preach and the results show in the program history.

Exactly...great point...i think a coach has to have his standards....stick to them and the program takes care of itself.  I doubt Woodford and Larue have much of a problem with dedication.  If they made something mandatory in the summer....i BELIEVE the kids would be there, i'm not 100% sure....they may have just as much trouble...idk.  But I think those kids can be pushed a lot more because their programs are so successful....the coaches know these kids want to be a part of that great tradition.

[Guest former_fc_wrestler]

coaches will wake up and realize they don't have to kiss a bunch of kids' (_*_)....or compromise their morals for a kid who skips 1-2 days of pracitce per week.

I'd rather have a hole in the line-up than put up with a kid with an attitude or a kid that doesn't want to be there...put 'em on the street, that's what I say.  Coaches don't need to be baby sitters.  I have seen some of that in the Middle school programs.

[pioneer_pride 1]

I'm not sure how your sons school can get away with this.  (I hear discrimination in that tactic).  

Believe me, a lot of parents agree with you on this....yet it goes on.  I for one would be ticked if i had a daughter doing cheerleading...but that's how it is.  Why do they get away with this?  Because they can.  It might have something to do with cheerleading not being considered a "sport".  Idk...but they have been doing this for years.

Think about this pioneer.  The reason Boone Co. does not have a wrestling team is because of thier old football coach.  He made it manditory that his football players lift wieghts in the off season.  If any of them wrestled they would NOT make the football squad or if they did, get playing time.  

That's a very different story than what i heard...in fact, it was in the paper that Boone County's program was dropped due to Title IX issues.  The football coach most likely contributed to the problem, but the final decision to drop their program was Title IX...at least that's what I read and was told.  (correct me if i'm wrong on that...maybe you have some more insight).

$$$ and time is the issue here.  Many high school kids play several different sports.  If they were forced to participate in all of these in the off season they would be forced to become a 1 sport kid.  

IMO any high school coach that forces a kid to decide which sport to participate in, is doing an injustice to the kids on his/her team.  

I agree with you here, in the cases I was mentioning above about programs that have mandatory weight lifting programs....most of the kids are excused if they are playing another sport such as baseball.  I'm not saying coaches should be unreasonable....if there are legitimate reasons a kid can't be at weight lifting or summer wrestling...then fine.  That's up to the coach....but a kid that's not involved in another sport...and doesn't have a circumstance where he has to work because the family's poor.  I just don't see the harm in a coach requiring that kid to be at weight lifting or spring wrestling practice or whatever.

[pioneer_pride 1]

I'd rather have a hole in the line-up than put up with a kid with an attitude or a kid that doesn't want to be there...put 'em on the street, that's what I say.  Coaches don't need to be baby sitters.  I have seen some of that in the Middle school programs.

LOL...thank God someone on my side chimmed in!  ;-)  I guess it all depends on your coaching situation....if you're BUILDING a program....and trying to keep your numbers up....you might have to be a little looser than you'd like....and try to get kids interested in it....but eventually when you get a group of core fairly dedicated kids, you have to choose your battles and cut those kids that aren't dedicated.  It may sting at first, but I think it will be better for your program in the long run.

[kdsmith27 14]

We don't cut people because most programs don't have the luxury of being choosy.  I believe that's going to change soon (next 5-10 years).  With all the middle school & youth wrestling going on, i think programs will become deeper and be able to boot a kid off for whatever reason and replace them with a decent experienced...younger...wrestler.  It will be a culture shift for sure, but at some point varsity coaches will wake up and realize they don't have to kiss a bunch of kids' (_*_)....or compromise their morals for a kid who skips 1-2 days of practice per week.  OK, I'll get off my soapbox now.

I surely hope that no coach kisses there kid's ***. Off  season is something that is tolerated. In-season is another issue. I have forfeited many a weight classes due to attitude. Grades and attitude will get you pine time.

[grappler-of-old 44]

I'd rather have a hole in the line-up than put up with a kid with an attitude or a kid that doesn't want to be there...put 'em on the street, that's what I say.  Coaches don't need to be baby sitters.  I have seen some of that in the Middle school programs.

Sports in schools are there to try and keep the kids of the streets.  

I know of quit a few kids that were successfull on successfull teams that would not have had the opportunity if the coach had taken this attitude.

[pioneer_pride 1]

Sports in schools are there to try and keep the kids of the streets.  

I know of quit a few kids that were successfull on successfull teams that would not have had the opportunity if the coach had taken this attitude.

Sorry to bring this example up....but it's so relevant and in the news today....look at Maurice "can't nobody fade me" Clarett.  I would guess his coaches & teachers turned the other cheek on this kid from the 6th grade on.  Not wanting to turn him out to the meanstreets of Youngstown.  Of course I don't know his whole upbringing...but I think this is perfect example of a kid that is raised with soft rules.  I'm not sure about when he was in h.s., but i remember reading that before their fiesta bowl game, Clarett had academic issues.  Something about a tutor who was taking tests for him or something...and teachers that were giving passing grades when they weren't earned.  Perhaps if he had paid the price then.....right then.....he wouldn't be running from the law man this morning with a bullet proof vest and 4 loaded gats in his SUV.  lol....sorry, i had to bring this one up.  Hate the Luckeyes.  Like i said earlier on....you have to be reasonable...but you have to have your standards.  If a program has a mandatory anything in the off season, i say stick it to the kids.  The strong will survive.

[penguinskillkids 0]

Sorry to bring this example up....but it's so relevant and in the news today....look at Maurice "can't nobody fade me" Clarett.  I would guess his coaches & teachers turned the other cheek on this kid from the 6th grade on.  Not wanting to turn him out to the meanstreets of Youngstown.  Of course I don't know his whole upbringing...but I think this is perfect example of a kid that is raised with soft rules.  I'm not sure about when he was in h.s., but i remember reading that before their fiesta bowl game, Clarett had academic issues.  Something about a tutor who was taking tests for him or something...and teachers that were giving passing grades when they weren't earned.  Perhaps if he had paid the price then.....right then.....he wouldn't be running from the law man this morning with a bullet proof vest and 4 loaded gats in his SUV.  lol....sorry, i had to bring this one up.  Hate the Luckeyes.  Like i said earlier on....you have to be reasonable...but you have to have your standards.  If a program has a mandatory anything in the off season, i say stick it to the kids.  The strong will survive.

Guessing you're a Michigan fan  :roll:

[pioneer_pride 1]

nah....a Miami fan.  :-(  and anyone who's playing OSU.  :-)

[eville dad 17]

Is this the rule regarding coaches in the off season that restricts HS Coaches from Coaching during the summer?

Bylaw 25. Limitation of Seasons

(6) Involvement of Members of the Coaching Staff Out

of Season

Members of the high school coaching staff (paid or

unpaid) shall not be prohibited from sport specific

observation and evaluation (but not coaching) of any

player who has played for a grade nine (9) through

grade twelve (12) team (freshman, junior varsity,

varsity) from the first day of school through the last

day of school provided such play is under the direct

control of the same local board of education as the

coach is employed and provided such play is not in

conflict with other KHSAA bylaws.

I would like to completely understand the rule on High School Coaches coaching during the off season, what is allowed and what is not allowed.

DEAD PERIOD:

I think I understand the dead period. That seems clear that there is no contact for the two week period.

But what about outside of the dead period?

Are HS Coaches allowed to coach at all out side of the school year?

If their own children are playing on the team does that allow them to coach?

I am sure that HS Coaches are coaching travel teams in other sports?

Who is the authority on this issue for Kentucky High School Athletics?

MANDATORY PROGRAMS?

I know of no hs programs that make any activity outside of the schools season truly MANDATORY. It may be suggested by a coach that a child work hard and play here or there during the off season but never have I heard it was contingent on the child being able to participate the next season. My daughter cheered at a HS considered very elite competitively and even the dreaded summer cheerleading practices while considered mandatory were not attended by all participants. Yes the girls were strongly encouraged to attend but for various reasons some could not. If they could still keep their skills up they were not penalized. Now some girls did drop out for failure to keep up skills and be the best for the competitive team. But this sport of cheerleading clearly explained before tryouts what was expected beforehand.

[TeamJesus316 0]

So we are gonna punish the kids because there are a few bad coaches?  That sounds unacceptable and also out of line of the educational goals of the schools we are involved with.

What do you do with a school that hasnt had a team and they get someone at their school who wants to coach?  Kentucky forces them to either bend over backwards to find someone else who has a clue and then has to at least be trained on what they high school coach wants them to be taught or put the kids under the supervision of someone who doesnt have a clue.  That is irresponsible.  The schools themselves tell kids they have to go to summer school and do school year around.  Basketball is a bad example to compare wrestling to.  You can play basketball and improve without the use of a supervising coach.  Wrestling, you have to have a mat and the supervision of someone who knows what they are doing.  THIS HAS TO BE THE NUMBER ONE THING THAT THE KENTUCKY COACHES ASSOCIATION SHOULD BE FIGHTING FOR.  IF NOT, THEY DO NOT REPRESENT THE COACHES OR WHATS BEST FOR THE KIDS IN KENTUCKY.

[grappler-of-old 44]

I agree that there needs to be opportunity for wrestlers to wrestle in the off season.  Wrestlers also need to be able to improve themselves in the offseason.  The best person to do this is usually the coach of the high school team. 

In my opinion however many coaches go overboard with the MANDATORY bit.  Football and basketball coaches especially. (At least in my opinion.)

I see a lot of middle and gradeschool wrestling coaches doing the same thing.  (most if not all of this was seen in Ohio). 

Its a fine line coaches walk.  They must remember that they are there for the kids and not themselves.  They are there for ALL the kids not just the ones with talent or dedication. 

It may take 3-4 years to finally get through to an athlete about dedication and commitment.  But in the end it will all be worth wild.  If you have or had a kid that was not committed to anything and you foster that non commitment by kicking him off the team, he will continue on that same road through life.  If you get through to him his senior year, he may not win state, he may not qualify for state, he may not even make the varsity team, but he has learned commitment and dedication that will help him through his entire life.  Not just his high school career. 

These are kids not adults.  They should always be given a chance or several of them.  Yes pioneer some never do pan out, but the one or two that do. Make it all worth wild. :-D