Elementary Reigonals and State

[Mike Frankrone 20]

LOL! Sorry I brought up such a touchy subject! I'm not on here every single day, so forgive me if I haven't already saw all the other conversations about this subject! Nice sarcasm though about the "Making a World Champion" comment! I'll try not to let my curiosity get the best of me next time! 

[Mike Frankrone 20]

Do we have to get that started again?  The bottom line is we are cutting the brackets at 8.  If there are 45 11-12 year old 65 pounders then yes there will be 6 state champs.  Oh well.  This is about participation and building the sport throughout the state not making sure we are crowning the true champion of the world.

Why bother having a champion at the middle school level or high school level for that matter if it's just about participation & building the sport throughout the state?

[Ranger123 43]

Why bother having a champion at the middle school level or high school level for that matter if it's just about participation & building the sport throughout the state?

First, I didn't state or even imply that all levels are just about participation.  But at this point, youth wrestling in KY is about participation.

Second, it is not a touchy subject for me.  I just hate to hear the same complaints we hear year after year. 

[Mike Frankrone 20]

First, I didn't state or even imply that all levels are just about participation.  But at this point, youth wrestling in KY is about participation.

Second, it is not a touchy subject for me.  I just hate to hear the same complaints we hear year after year. 

Well, it's my opinion that elementary should be about more than just participation & helping the sport grow throughout the state! I'm unaware of the same complaints on here year after year being that I'm brand new to this forum! My son came to me on his own expressing his dislike with fact that there's more than one champion per weight class! I was just curious what others opinions were about it! 

[Irish Wrestler 10]

Louisville- Read the posts from last years elementary state and you'll find out where everyone stands on the subjsct of multiple state champions. 

[stanmms 4]

Thanks Ranger for expressing what most of us feel.

I could write pages on the difficulty of having one state ELEMENTARY champ per weight.  If anybody wants to really listen to all the issues then show up for our meetings.  2 hours x twice per year.  This is an extremely difficult dilemma on how to institute this formula. 

There are no weight classes in the 5/6 & 7/8 age groups.  So in these brackets, every bracket winner is the true state champion.  It is my opinion the same formula can be used in the 9/10 & 11/12 age groups.  This would satisfy the "TRUE STATE CHAMP" crowd as well as acheiving the original mission of the KSYWA which is centered around participation and doing our best to help grow Youth wrestling in Ky.

All comments are welcome but if you truely want to contribute talk to your Regional Rep about the issues first.  That will clear up alot of misconceptions.

[PinAndWin 64]

"There are no weight classes in the 5/6 & 7/8 age groups.  So in these brackets, every bracket winner is the true state champion.  It is my opinion the same formula can be used in the 9/10 & 11/12 age groups."

I'm not sure I understand this line of thought.  So your saying throw out the weight classes and you have a true champion in each age group?  I must be misunderstanding...That's rediculous!

[stanmms 4]

You are.  There are no PREDETERMINED weight classes.  We start with the lowest actual weight to the next 8 kids, assuming they are within 10%, and that's a weight class.  I'm saying throw out the predetermined, by some individual, weight classes.  Keep the age groups the same.  We do this every single weekend in Cinncinnati and it works great.  I've never heard anybody refer to the CYW league as a riduculous format.

[PinAndWin 64]

Thanks Stan..I knew I was missing something.

Answer this...What's wrong with doing it the same way it's done in middle school.  You should have to qualify for state in regionals by placing.  It gives the kids something to work for the following year if they don't make it. This "everyone wins" mantality isn't helping the kids.  They get plenty of mat time thoughout the year.  One event isn't going to keep the sport from growing.  It's a tough sport.  Let's reward these kids that work their tails off all year.  Kids need to learn early in my opinion that their going to have to compete for success in life through hard work and dedication and sometimes even that isn't enough.  

I've been listening to thoughts on this topic for a long time.  I just had to speak my mind.

[stanmms 4]

The way the weight classes are currently setup I don't see how it could be done with any real meaning.  The majority of weights would be walk-throughs.  Only the 60-80 lb. kids would truely have to qualify.  The rest would simply have to wrestle in a Regional.  There are 6 regions. 

It has been the majority thinking that if a team wants to have a "Champions Tournament" after our Youth State more power to them.

I don't want everybody to win either.  But, at 5 years old and 35 lbs. how do you put those kids in a 50lb weight class.  That's the equivalent of a 152lb kid wrestling in the 189lb bracket in High School.  Nobody would even begin to believe that's a good system.  When you have kids spread out from 1st thru 6th grade special allowances have to be made.  It's never going to be perfect.

[PinAndWin 64]

Thanks again for the insight.  What's wrong with a 5 and 6 year old 35 lbs bracket?

[Ranger123 43]

For the record, I'm not for an "everyone wins" system.  But the facts are pretty simple.  The state is not ready for a regional qualifier.  This is elementary school wrestling.  The parents who are getting all heated about this are probably those who we end up hearing about getting thrown out of middle school events.  We also need to run the tournament as efficiently as possible.  And if the majority with the current set up then that's how it is going to be and we all have to live with it.  If you don't agree, then as Stan has said, talk to your coach or regional rep or come to the meetings and let your voice be heard.  Waiting until after the fact (or before) and complaining online doesn't count.

[Ranger123 43]

Thanks again for the insight.  What's wrong with a 5 and 6 year old 35 lbs bracket?

I think the problem with setting up all of those possible brackets is that some years there haven't been any kids that show up that age/weight.  Or someone does show up that is outside the assumed limits.  And there are still going to be age/weight classes with 40 kids that show up at state.

[PinAndWin 64]

First off, who's heated and bent out of shape?  I'm certainly not.  There was nothing disrespectful about my questions and comments.  And no...I've never been kicked out of a tournament.

Thanks for the insight Stan.  I'll discuss it with you more off the forum next week at practice.

[heavy83 15]

I agree that at this level the more kids that get to wrestle the better. I also believe that the non predetermined weight classes help promote our goals better to keep more wrestling than a 32 man 70lb bracket to crown a "true champion". For example we had a kid last year struggling for a win each week in the cincinnati league and was about to quit even though I kept telling him he's getting better, went to Ky state won and now loves wrestling and believes in himself. That is the reason we (at least I) do this. Imo more kids will keep at it this way. I don't believe any kids will quit if there are not set bracket and top 4 qualifiers.

[Irish Wrestler 10]

We had a kid the same way last year.  State is what kept him interested.  He didn't care that there were two state champs at the same weight class.  All he knew was that he won his bracket and that was all that mattered.  We have to keep the kids interested to make KY wrestling better.  If we run kids off after a couple of years what have we accomplished?  Nothing. I'm not one of these people who think everyone should be a winner.  Kids have to learn to lose and on the other hand they need to win to see what they can do also. There has to be a balance.  Right now I think we have what is in the best interest for the kids and Ky wrestling in our minds. 

[heavy83 15]

I tell my son and the kids I coach at this age it is about learning and having fun, not winning and losing.Even though some people don't believe this, winning is not everything. As a coach you should always coach to win(try to put the kids in position to win) but not make it a failure if they don't.  They have plenty of time in high school to put that pressure on themselves. Our job is to get them there and still liking the sport. Like Irish said they also need to learn how to lose, as in attitude, remembering what they did wrong etc.

[stanmms 4]

Irish and heavy83 are perfect examples of coaches looking at the big picture.  I'm much more interested that my youth kids are improving, giving 100% effort, and learning how to be decent people than their win/loss record.  I don't even keep track of their win/loss records. 

There are plenty of moves a Youth coach can teach that will win lots of matches at the Youth level that won't work at higher levels.  We focus on the techniques we believe will work at all levels.  If the win/loss record was all we worried about we would coach completely different.

Like heavy83 stated there's plenty of time to put tons of pressure on the kids.

[Ranger123 43]

First off, who's heated and bent out of shape?  I'm certainly not.  There was nothing disrespectful about my questions and comments.  And no...I've never been kicked out of a tournament.

Thanks for the insight Stan.  I'll discuss it with you more off the forum next week at practice.

I guess my comment wasn't clear.  My intent was that 99% of the time those who argue this point are those extreme cases.  Didn't mean to imply that of you.  You just struck a nerve I guess.

[rookie 0]

When do the 12 yr olds need to be at ccms today thanks

[Yodawrestles 0]

my son is ten and personally i dont care about wins and losses.  Granted he has only lost one match this year and won a few tourny's but his wins hvae actually made him work harder.  Winning will come and go but the habit of preparing to be his best will continue throughout his life. As i said he is 10 and no one with an ounce of self dignity seriously worries about what they did in sports in the 3rd and 4th grade.  I veiw this time in his life as character building and learning the nuances of success.  I dont worry about what someone else in his wieght class does and niether of us care that they were like 200 regional wrestling champs we still celebrated his success for 24 hours.  (now its time to prepare to be his best again)  Our  concern is improving learning and growing.  When ever i hear him start talking about how much he wants to win i just remind him of our mantras "perfect practice makes perfect", the will to prepare is greater than the will to win" and so forth.