BETTER REFS

[Guest iceman]

Does anyone see the need for better refs? Some are good but there are some out there that are bad. Some refs count a pin so fast that when a shoulder touches they call it a pin, while others seem to take forever to call a pin when its so ovious to everyone in the building that its a pin. Also it seems that certain wrestlers and certain teams get either the right calls or the bad calls depending on the ref. One ref this weekend didn't even see a headbutt that everyone in the entire gym saw but him and he was on the matt. The headbutt was so bad it knocked out the kid that was headbutted yet he didn't see it. All these kids work hard and all they want is a fair match if they win or if they loose they can move on but when the refs don't pay attention or don't call it fair it ruins the whole day. Some of these refs act like they would rather be some where else but on the matt. Don't get me wrong there are some excellent refs out there and the OTHERS you know who you are.

[worthmatt 0]

Iceman,

I will not dispute the fact that refs make mistakes. That will happen. This is, also, a fact. There a bunch of refs who do an excellent job. There will always be a need for refs. I was told once by a veteran ref in Indiana, who has done the Indiana HS State Finals, that the average amount of years for a ref is five years. I am aware of the great need for refs in Kentucky. If you are interested and serious about officiating, APPLY for your ref's license with the KHSAA. That goes for anyone who is interested and serious about officiating. APPLY. We need you. Why I'm saying this. I've been officiating in Indiana since 2000 & just started officiating in Kentucky this year. I realize what refs go through & the need for more refs. I hope that you apply. When you are licensed, I hope to see you on the mat. When starting out, take middle school, freshman, & JV matches first to get mat time & develop your ref skills. By the time you start doing varsity meets, you'll be ready for those meets. Remember most of all, no matter what level you ref at, always be willing to learn. No one will ever know it all. Don't get discourage & keep going.

Worthmatt

[bluegrassbrawler 2]

Officiating is a very tough job to say the least. Sometimes a fan's point of view is much different than that of the offical. So naturally the fans might see things that the ref does not and vice versa. For those of you have have never reffed, yet enjoy complaining about poor officiating, maybe you should give it a shot and see what it is like to be that lone official out on the mat. It might just change your perspective a little.

[worthmatt 0]

Thank you, bluegrassbrawler. You said it better than I did.

[wrestling4life 0]

This is my 4th year being a ref, I started right after i graduated high school. I like most peopl before i became a ref i woulod always think i was getting bad calls. But now being on the "other" side now I see what refs go through. Yesturday I worked a tourny, which I have done plenty of in my 4 years. But just think as a ref i got there at 7am, did weigh-ins then waited for wrestling to start, when wrestling started we wrestled for around 9 hours. In those 9 hours we had maybe 3 breaks. Just think how you would feel after doing that much and going non-stop. I sometimes think that I do more than the wrestlers do. But getting back to the topic. I will admit after 9 hours, you get tired and start making mistakes. I will man up if I do make a misstake. But for some one to come out and say that there is a better need for refs, is just not right. As a ref you can never please everyone, there is always going to be that one person that thinks you are wrong and they are right. And for the most part that person has never done it before in their life. So before you go talking bad about ever the "worse" ref, remember they are doing this because they love wrestling. Belive me it is not for the money, I do it because I love this sport. I belive that is how ALL the other ref feel too.

[grapplinfan 0]

So long as the ref is consistent, i can live with however he calls it.

[HHSDad 0]

I've been very disappointed with the officiating this year. I agree that a consistent ref is better than an inconsistent one. But I've seen a lot of bad calls and no-calls this year, more than usual, and in matches where I don't have a dog in the fight. It also seems like even the experienced refs are distracted this year.

Having said that, let me say how much I appreciate the refs for just being there. Especially at these all day tournaments. Lord knows that has to be a tough job. I'd have to spend Sunday just resting up all day.

I did see one new ref (it was that obvious) who was being tutored by reffing JV matches during a varsity tournament. I'm not sure if he had ever witnessed a wrestling match before. Just keep working at it, you'll get it eventually.

[Ranger123 43]

HHSDad - where did you see such a poor ref?

[HHSDad 0]

HHSDad - where did you see such a poor ref?

I'd rather not say. He was only reffing JV matches and there was usually another ref on or near the mat watching him.

[Cougarwrestler 0]

Ill be honest im quite tired of hearing everyone complain about refs. To say something to your coach or to say something to the ref and not make a scene is one thing. But to get on here and bash them is out of hand. Half the people that get on here and complain about them could not make it out of the first period w/o blowing 2 or so calls.

[Guest iceman]

Since I am the one that started this thread let me clear up a few things. I was or am not bashing refs. The night I wrote this was when I saw a kid get a headbutt so hard that everyone saw it or heard it. It was so bad the kid went down on his back and was out for 3 minutes. He had a goose egg knot on his head and the only person that did not see it was the ref When other coaches and parents see it but the person that was suppose to see it and was only 3 feet away didn't I wonder why? When you see a kid out and a knott on his head how do you think it got there when both kids are standing up. I played sports for many years and have got to state my interest now is only watching I WOULD NEVER want to be a ref nor do I ever bash a ref I know their job is very tuff and they can't see everything I just watched a match the other night one ref and three schools and he did a great job AND YES AFTER THE MATCH I WAS THE FIRST ONE TO SHAKE HIS HAND AND TELL HIM WHAT A GREAT JOB HE DID and the school I was there for lost. Every sport has great refs and a few that need a bit more learning I was just saying I would just like to see more refs be consistent thats all . I in nomeans meant to step on any refs toes THAT I would never do their job is to hard and not a job I would want to do. Just thinking maybe some kids out there that have wrestled before and now have graduated maybe would now become refs

[HHSDad 0]

I'm not bashing the refs, but I'm just curious as to why they seem to be down this year. I know it happens, just look at the NFL referees. They've been horrible this year. I also know that its still early in the year and the refs, like the wrestlers, get better as the season goes by.

Is it easier to see things happening on the mat from further away? I sometimes wonder if standing 3 ft away isn't a disadvantage to the referee.

[pioneer_pride 1]

HHSDad - I can tell you a lot of experienced refs have recently quit reffing for a number of reasons. 3 experienced refs I know quit in the past 5 years for 3 somewhat different reasons, but 1 of them said they "were tired of dealing with the KHSAA". I have a feeling this same reason had something to do with all 3 of the refs giving it up. 1 said he got burnt out...1 said he was just too old to do it anymore. It may be a down time now....but that's all the more reason to encourage the newer refs. I heard a rumor recently about a brand new ref that quit this year because he had a really bad incident at a N. Ky school....apparently the coach & fans were threatening him because he blew a call....to the point where he called for a police escort!! That's ridiculous no matter what he did. I wonder how often there are incidents like this throughout the state...anyone heard of such a thing? Anyone know if this is true?

[Guest iceman]

If that is true then thats bad. I would never call out a ref or threaten a ref no matter what. I saw something happen last year where a father went on to the matt and yelled at a ref and the tournament school threw him out and the school where his kid was from told him not to come back. I think these are exceptions but it is up to the schools running the tournament to take control and throw these people out. I know when I saw the kid get headbutted I was as mad as I've ever been but yet not one word was said to the ref except from the coach and it was only to explain what had happened and to get his reasons for not seeing it. After it was done later the ref came over and apologize and check on the kid that he missed the call. The kid just said ok I'm alright and smiled at him Who knows maybe this will make this ref a better ref because from now on he will be trying to look for headbutts and grow a few more eyes to see more of the match

[HHSDad 0]

It seems like they're calling more stalls and more calls for the safety of the wrestlers this year. I like the stalling calls, because in the past it seemed that they were never call until state, and by then the wrestlers had gotten used to stalling not being called. I've also noticed the refs making quicker out-of-bounds calls, especially on small mats, and mats that are close to walls. I've even seen a couple refs throwing their bodies between the wrestlers and the floor, wall, etc. :shock:

[pioneer_pride 1]

i LOVE the increase in stalling calls....as a state, we are HORRIBLE on this....when you see a lot of wrestlers from Ohio, those guys are "elbows & ---holes" from the bottom....i think a lot of that comes from refs forcing action more over there. HHSDad, you're exactly right, stalling is very much under called until state.

[pioneer_pride 1]

along this subject...i talked to a ref recently who is certified in Ohio and is familiar with Kentucky...he stated he felt like there were much more strict requirements for maintaining certification in Ohio than in Kentucky. Apparently in Ohio, you have to attend like 4 rules meetings per year to maintain certification....where as in Kentucky it's once per year unless you plan on reffing at post season tournaments. If this is true, this should be addressed.

[Ranger123 43]

There is your dilema. If you make it more of a pain on the officials, there will be even fewer than we currently have. I don't know what the answer is. Maybe you have to pay the guys more to get them interested. If you think about it, $150 for an all day tournament isn't that good. You arrive for weigh-ins around 8:00 and hope to finish up the finals of some tournaments by 9 or 10 o'clock. That's about $10 an hour, but these are guys who work all week and are giving up their Saturdays for this. But I know the programs and schools are strapped for $, so that is not an easy answer.

[wrestling4life 0]

You have it right there ranger, as a ref i giv up my saturdays to ref, not for the money, but because i love this sport. I could be making more money working my job but instead i am out there doing this for the kids. This is my 4th year, and I dont think i have once been threaten before, but i will be the first the take the fall for making a blown call. I know there are some refs that are too good to do that but then again i think they are the ones that are in it for the money. It is up to the coaches to start getting new refs out there. I knew I was not going to wrestle in college but i wanted to stay in the sport. We need new refs every year if you look at the list of the refs you have like 2 or 3 with 30+ years, then it falls off from there. We have more refs with 5 or less years that we do with 5 or more. It is just going to take time to build or ref pool back up. We need all the help we can get. The KHSAA does their part, they even give disconts to get more involed.

[Cougarwrestler 0]

Ill be honest I would not want to be afraid with some of the coaches and parents today. I hear one coach I wont mention any names complain about refs every tournament I am at w/ him. It gets on my nerves. As far as arguing is concerned its not the NFL you cant throw your red flag and get a review so get over it. I will not say I dont question a refs call sometimes. But people take it way out of hand and wont give it a rest.

I think this poses a big problem because the majority of these refs dont need this money there doing it because they love the sport and want to be around it. So when they have parents going off the deep end coaches who will not shut up they just give up. I would I could not handle it.

Another reason is we have a lot of younger refs now. There have been a lot of the good ones retire as of late. So we need to give room for these guys to progress. I also understand there is no bashing going on and im not accusing of anyone of it. Just stating a point.