gator1
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Posts posted by gator1
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2 hours ago, neverbreak said:I understand your argument, but I have witnessed on several occasions where a region had 5 or 6 of the best guys in a weight class all fighting for the 4 qualifying spots. That meant when the dust settled and the regional tournament was over one or two of the "best kids in the state" were sitting in the stands for the State Tournament.
Every year at a qualifying event there are kids who could place that never make the tournament. This year will be no different.
True, but regions are based on geography, there's nothing reasonable we can do about it. Seeding, or not seeding, is a choice. We're clearly making the lazy choice.
The NFL, MLB and NBA also restrict who makes the playoffs based on conferences and divisions. But they don't just randomly draw the playoffs bracket once the regular season is over. Because that would be dumb and no one would accept it.
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57 minutes ago, DrBaker said:Because any way you do it, someone gets pissed.
The goal isn't to make people happy, it's too have the 8 best guys in the quarters, the 4 best in the semis, and the two best in the finals.
The lazy way that we're doing it definitely isn't accomplishing this.
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I've got some middle schoolers that would be interested, so let us know if they're looking for a KY MS team.
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10 hours ago, CoachC said:3) some kids are just more athletic, more dedicated, better at learning and applying, more coordinated, better coached...the list goes on.
No one is getting weaker, slower, and less coordinated as they age from 13 to 15. Testosterone is a super drug, and it's flowing like a river at this age. The same kid will always be better at 15 than he was at 13. That's a fact. To admit this isn't taking away from anyone's hard work and dedication. But to deny it is silly.
10 hours ago, CoachC said:4) age doesn't directly translate to winning. Just the same as cutting weight or being ranked higher.
Yes, this is obviously true. That's why we don't have age limits ands weight classes, because they totally don't matter.
If you want numbers, count how many 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th graders place at middle school states each year.
When you buy a coffee at McDonald's, it has a warning that the contents inside are hot. They do this because some moron burned there mouth and then sued McDonalds, as though they didn't realize the coffee would be hot. In a sane world, McDonalds wouldn't have to put this on their cups. That's how I feel about the rule that you have to be 19 to participate in high school sports. In a sane world, this wouldn't have to be stated, it would be obviously understood. But alas, we have to put it in the rule book because teams would be rolling out 21 year olds and people on this forum would be saying "rules are rules, age doesn't matter, you're just a sore loser!"
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Are we also filling a 13u and 15u team as well?
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On 12/14/2021 at 1:27 PM, grappler-of-old said:As for the state tournament.
If you want a parade of champions and a stand alone finals you can't finish it in one day.
Heck even back in the stone age when I wrestled a 16 man bracket at Atherton High School it was 2 days.
Middle school does a 20 man bracket with a parade of champions in one day.
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Do ya'll have a list of potential tournaments? If it's after the regular season, I may have several middle school aged kids interested.
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2 hours ago, GentleBeard said:I’m not comparing the quality of sports. There’s no comparison in my bias. I’m comparing the length of seasons that seem to be a deterrent. It seems to me that if you don’t want a long season, you don’t have to schedule one. If you want to schedule tournaments every weekend from November - March then you can schedule that as well.
The long season is a deterrent to attracting and retaining new kids. Basketball and football are huge in Kentucky, they're not facing the same challenge. So comparing their schedules to wrestling is irrelevant to the problem of attracting and retaining new kids.
Yes, we could each chose to have shorter schedules or longer schedules and/or only compete on certain weekends as you say. But that exacerbates the other challenge we have with low participation, which is that events are extremely spread out and many of us have to drive very far every weekend for our events. If half the teams compete on some Saturdays and half on other Saturdays, that just spreads out the geographic density of events, lengthening the travel.
That's not easy on anyone, and especially hard to digest for new wrestlers and their parents who have not yet fallen in love with wrestling. I know this because they've told me this.
This is not pessimistic or defeatest, or whatever other adjectives you've used. My optimism is strong, and I believe we could have a growing and thriving wrestling community in Kentucky, but not if we make decisions that are counter to this goal. This is why I wanted to state the challenge, and point out that the decision that was voted on by a small percentage of vested participants further exacerbates the problem.
I still haven't heard a solid argument for why we've moved our post season out by over a month other than a general statement of "logisitics."
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20 minutes ago, rjs4470 said:I've been on both sides and back again. I'm I can tell you it's much harder now to build than it was 10 years ago when I built the first time. I feel like we are sacrificing growth in effort to be more competitive with neighboring states. IMHO, We will never be as competitive as we want to be, without first achieving consistent growth.
That's exactly right. If the goal is really to improve wrestling in KY, then we first need to build a stronger foundation by increasing the number of participants. Having a longer regular season does the opposite. New kids trying out the sport for the first time don't want a 4.5 month season, nor do parents, nor do spring sport participants. If wrestling is their primary sport, then GREAT, no problem. But requiring a 4.5 month commitment as the baseline for regular season is the wrong answer to growing the sport. Making the season compact, competitive and fun is the best way to grow participation and grow the sport.
That doesn't mean we can't still have competition year round for the hardcore members of the community. If you want a longer season, support off-season tournaments! I remember when we had greco and freestyle events. I was there with my team at the Woodford FS/Greco event in 2019, as well as the FS/Greco state championships. We trained for several other events, but those were cancelled because of the poor participation. That was 2 years ago, and as far as I know we haven't had any freestyle events since. 2020 was COVID, but that doesn't explain 2021. More off season tournaments have been planned and cancelled just in the past few months because of low participation.
Instead, our team spent the entire spring/summer/fall travelling out of state. That's a tough way to grow the sport too. I love the competition and I love the sport. But even for a hardcore participant like me, it's rough driving long distances and getting hotels in Ohio, Tennessee, Virginia, and Indiana just for a couple of matches per kid.
Gentlebeard suggested that we "find solutions." I think the best solution is clear -
1. A shorter regular season like pre-COVID days (example: Mid October to Early February for 3.5+ months total) to build higher participation across the state
2. A much stronger off-season schedule for the more hardcore kids, coaches, and programs. Freestyle, folkstyle, greco, whatever.
This would meet the needs of both groups, in my opinion.
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45 minutes ago, wrestling78 said:I would think that having states and regionals that late would cause a conflict in having some of those middle schoolers that compete in high school the day before for states.
It absolutely does cause a conflict. I've got multiple 8th graders that have worked for years for this opportunity to get on the podium in their last year of middle school, and now they risk limping into the season finale because they're also important point scorers for the high school team.
I know it's already been voted on, but I'll just voice my opinion and say that it's a terrible idea to have middle school playoffs after high school. We're looking at a long and grueling 5 month middle school season (mid-October to mid-March).
I wasn't at the meeting where this was discussed. Can someone explain why we've moved it to March? What's the reason to move middle school states back from the pre-COVID days? What are we gaining, besides burnout and injuries?
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2 hours ago, BrisFan said:Ive heard second weekend in March for State
That's surprising, so it's after high school states now? That's a long season since I believe middle school typically starts up before high school.
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Do we have dates yet for middle school regions and states?
If not, do we expect to go back to the old days of early February, or keep it later like last year?
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It seems like a lot of youth and MS programs took a hard hit to participation from COVID last year, and now we're going to have to work extra hard to build it back up as quickly as possible. Hopefully high school programs help with this across the state, otherwise it will seriously affect the quality of all wrestling in KY for years to come.
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Weekday duals were the best thing to come from COVID in my opinion. That's how it was way back when I was wrestling, and the kids seemed to really enjoy it too.
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This is great, where's the registration link?
I haven't seen this run in any of the local race calendars, have you started sending out the info anywhere to get it listed? You'll get a lot more interest by going to the running community directly.
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8 hours ago, BeastMode23 said:To fast for sure but very happy we got to have a season.
Man, I feel the opposite. For the first time ever I'm actually looking forward to the end of the season. So much up in the air, so many events cancelled, so hard to keep the boys motivated everyday since last summer...
I'm grateful for what we had, I really am, but I hope and pray next season is back to normal.
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1 minute ago, 44 dad said:What happened to Andrew Tarango of the colts at 105 ? l didn’t see him on the wrestler list...
That kids a Stud especially for a 6th grader !!I don't know why, but I believe all the colts guys were removed. That whole region 3 situation was messed up this year.
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28 minutes ago, Ranchy said:I guess evans still gets no love? Oh well what can you do
I noticed him missing from that list too. I don't see anyone at 86 coming near him this year. Was hoping to see 1 or 2 of the 92 guys down there to challenge him.
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Yep, that's what I figured. Jon's the man.
But at the same time we're half a day away from the tournament and there's still no brackets. We're running out of time to provide feedback if there are mistakes, and considering the complexities of this year's brackets, I'm expecting some issues. Jon himself said after the seeding meeting to keep an eye on the brackets to give feedback...
Since you seem to have some inside info, have you gotten any word about when we can expect brackets to be published?
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Anyone know when the brackets will be done? It's getting pretty late in the week, I'm not looking forward to the coaches meeting if they don't come out soon and have a bunch of mistakes.
The 70 pound bracket was released and they have a region #2 against the overall #1 in the round of 32. That can't be right.
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Has anyone heard anything about a MS seeding meeting? I feel like it's usually on the Monday after regionals, or maybe Tuesday. So far I haven't seen anything planned yet.
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Has there been a flyer created for the regional 2 tournament? I haven't seen information on fees, weigh in times, wrestling schedule, spectator rules, etc. I've only seen a flyer for region 4, and there's nothing on track either.
Hopefully I missed it, otherwise I'm not sure how we're supposed to know what's going on.
Same for the state tournament... I saw some meeting minutes that had some of the info, but no information on fees and some other things missing. Can we get flyers? This stuff is important for communicating to our parents and schools.
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8 hours ago, KYWRESTLER2021 said:I can do it if someone can send me info but It will be just top 6 in each weight group
I don't think we'll even know weights until after regionals. By the time anyone ranks, they'll be working it out at the state tourney.
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10 hours ago, DrBaker said:What if they have a full 32 man bracket and wrestle 1/2 of it on Friday and the other 1/2 on Saturday?
Wouldn't that be over the 5 match max for wrestle backs?
State first round?
in High School Wrestling
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A 100M sprinter
Track and field. A sprinter can make the state tournament, lose (but qualify) in a preliminary heat, then win a state championship. Yes it's a "qualifying heat" but it's also part of the championship. Just not the finals. Not that complicated.