NighthawkWrestling

@ 132: Wiley Conner vs Elkins DeSales Wiley has already beat Elkins this year 5-1 in a dual.

Ashford had a great tournament! Talked with Wiley and he told me that kids is freakishly strong! Big props to Miller. I'm man enough to say I got it wrong. Hope nothing but the best for Miller, and by best I mean second place at state Scott did look good this weekend Holub next year wont be a factor for Scott. He is too little and will get manhandled by high schoolers. It will be a couple years before he has any sort of impact for Scott.

Kudos to all the qualifiers! Some thoughts... Campbell County is clearly a cut above the rest. This comes as a huge shock because of how good the Gray Middle school team was just four years ago. In my honest opinion that was the best middle school team outside of the 06' Fern Creek. They have under-performed big time in my opinion. Bankamper has done an excellent job with this team and they should do very well down at state. Next year maybe a the year SK, Ryle and CC lose their strangle hold on all of the other schools. Scott and Coach Graven have done an amazing job rebuilding their program. I'm a big fan of Coach Graven as a person and competed against him while I was in school, he has a great crew over there who will make noise this year then some major headway next season! SK is young but they're gonna be very competitive as long as Kaiser is there. He is a phenomenal coach! Congrats to Cov Cath on their first state qualifier in school history. I'm a big fan of Joe Hunt and Dave Johnson. They have a long road ahead of them but the future is bright for the program. Since I'm from Conner I was super proud of Clayton Boyd. He wrestled his tail off losing to Roth by two points! This is "win" for him. Blake crushed him twice during the season and to put himself in position to win was very cool to see. Conner will be awfully young next year once Trevor graduates. I think they only have one junior, Jacob Warwick, so I think there about two years removed from being really competitive again. Holmes always has great athletes and they have a good group of coaches its just gotta be frustrating how much great talent they lose year end and year out. I was a little disappointed in Dixie. Thought they would be a lot better than they were. I think open enrollment in that district has killed them losing Cornett, Holub, and I'm sure several others. I think very highly of coach Simmons and I hate seeing him go out like he is. Overall, CC will carry the district over the next couple of years. However its going to take a while for them to put themselves in a position to win state once this crew is gone. Outside of Wells, I don't see any freshman or 8th grader making any sort of impact next year. They have some good sophomores but none are "state placing" material this year. Oh and I want whatever weight lifting program Meyers is on! Austin looked incredible, he is the best kid in the Region and I think he is the best kid in the state. Sorry Brock and Boston, put pound for pound Austin is the best our state has to offer.

Thompson was beating Mueller 7-6 with about 50 secs left in the match before getting tossed and pinned. Not sure what match you were watching. Mason is the real deal and looked very good yesterday. There were some good kids from Region 6 who will not be making it to state. It's a damn shame but that is the way wrestling goes. Good luck to all competitors today. Stay classy Region 6.

At the end of the day Trevor will be region 6 champion and will be Conner's first state champion in a long time. I commend Trevor for bumping up and wrestling Mueller, Tarzan is right when your wrestling a very good wrestler, like Mueller, and your giving up 30 pounds because Trevor weighed in at 189 its tough to win no matter who you are. That would be like Sean Fausz bumping up to 170 and wrestling the second ranked kid in the state, its a completely different world. Good luck to all wrestlers this weekend, I cant wait to be there Saturday morning and watch all the matches.

Travis had like 231 wins in a row before losing in the state finals his senior year.

When the first clothes you buy for your newborn son is a 12 mo. singlet

Since the topic is raging hot on another post I figured I would open up this one to talk specifically on this match up. The great thing about these match ups is everyone has a different and unique perspective and opinion. I loved two years ago when they compared the 1996 UK men's basketball team against the 2012 UK men's basketball team. It's extremely difficult to do but I am going to give it a shot. *I'm looking strictly at what these kids did in high school that current year! We know that Sean as a Senior would beat Hines but as a sophmore not so much. I am also not looking at what they have or have not done in college, strictly that year in High School is all I care about. CC 2004 CC 2012 103- Kyle Griffin (Freshman) 3rd @ Reg 106- Stephen Maggard (Sophomore) 4th @ Reg 112- Dan Hurrlenbrink (Senior) Reg Runner up 112- Brian Sparh (8th Grader) Reg Runner up 119- Jake Hagedorn (Junior) 3rd @ Reg 120- Garth Yenter (Senior) Reg Champ, State Champ 125- Ben Hines (Senior) Reg Champ, State Runner up 126- Sean Fausz (Sophomore) Reg runner up, 3rd @ State 130- Corey Bankamper (Senior) Reg Champ, 3rd @ state 132- Corbin Woods (Junior) Reg runner up 135- Bo Hines (Senior) Reg Champ, State Champ 138- Paul Hamilton (Junior) Reg Champ, State runner up 140- Brian Wilson (Senior) Reg Runner up, 145- ?? 145- Aaron Hickey (Senior) 3rd @ Reg, 5th @ state 152- Mike Nolan (Junior) Reg Runner up, State Champ 152- Stephan Myers (Junior) Reg Champ, State Champ 160- Adam Moeves (Senior) Reg Champ, State runner up 160- Dustin Turner (Sophomore) 3rd @ Reg 171- Jim Houze (Senior) Reg Champ, 3rd @ state 170- Eli Matthews (Freshman) Reg Runner up 189- Kevin Orth (Junior) 3rd @ Reg, 6th @ state 182- Brett Keaton (Sophomore) 4th @ Reg 215- Travis Friedly (Junior) Reg Runner-up 195- Kody Key (Junior) 4th @ Reg HWT- Andy Hagedorn (Senior) Reg Champ, 3rd @ state 220- Austin Myers (Freshman) Reg Champ, State Champ HWT- Mason Frank (Senior) Reg Champ, State Champ I'm going to blend the weight classes to get a more accurate guess. 103/106- Griffin at this time would beat Maggard. It would be close but dec 04. 3-0 112/ 112- Hurrlenbrink was one awful call from placing at state this year. Also at Regionals he was up on Peace until a lat drop from Peace gave him the victory. Hurrlenbrink is way too much for Sparh to handle. Maj dec Hurrlenbrink. 7-0 119/ 120- No question Yenter pins in this match up. 7-6 125/ 126- Hines as a senior vs Sean as a sophmore is a big advantage Hines. Hines ran into Murton that year who was a buzzsaw. Had Murton stayed in Ohio Hines would have been a state champ. I'm giving him the edge over Sean. Dec Hines. 10-6 130/ 132- Bankamper was outstanding an a hammer on top. He would turn Woods anyway he wanted too. Pin Bankamper 16-6 135/ 138- As good as Hamilton was that year, he still gets put through a clinic by Hines. Hines wouldn't pin him, as he wasn't much of one. But he would take Hamilton down at will. I will go conservative and give Hines a major here. 20-6 140/ 145- (Because of the weight classes it gets real tricky here) Wilson pins CC '12 145, whoever that would be. 26-6 145/ 152- Myers would pin Hickey, or Nolan so no biggie here. 26-12 152/ 160- Nolan would work Turner. Not too confident to go with a major here but a dec nonetheless. 29-12 160/ 170- Not even a match here. Moeves would work Matthews. Too much for a freshman Matthews against Moeves. Going with a pin here. 35-12 170/ 182- Houze was up 13-0 before getting reversed to his back and pinned in the quarter finals. With out that move, he is a sure fired state champ. He smashes Keaton here. Pin 04'. 41-12 189/195- Orth was very good here, had a tough regional with Stone and Roberson, both who placed high at state. Orth cruises and crushes Key. Pin 04'. And the blow out continues. 47-12 215/ 220- Austin crushes this match up. Stop the slide. Going 47-18 HWT- Hagedorn was very good and moved well for a HWT. Although Frank is superior here I see this being a close decision in a typical HWT matchup. Dec Frank. 47-21 Overall, this is a blow out match up. Yes CC has some heavy hitters but the overall depth of the 04' team trumps the 12' team. I competed against the 04 team and coached against many of the 12' team in middle school. BTW i'm the same nut who did the big breakdown on CC and Union County at state last year. Have fun debating

Let's breakdown two of the best "dual teams" in Kentucky History. No doubt the best since 2000. SO 03' Looks like this 103- Ben Denny (Senior) 3rd in state. Lost to Kyle Ruschell in the semi's 2-1. 112- Derek Scott (Freshman) 4th in state. 119- Chris Skaggs (Senior) 4th in state. 125- Allen Oliver (Senior) State Runner up 130- Billy Whitehouse (Senior) State Runner up. Lost to Brad Cooper (3x State Champ) 4-2 in finals 135- Will VanNorstand (Senior) 6th in state 140- Jessie Holloway (Senior) DNP 145- Steve Lovewell (Senior) State Champ 152- Jamie Cantrell (Senior) 7th in state 160- Nick Fiser (Senior) State Champ 171- Greg Minwell (Senior) 4th in state 189- Patrick Sims (Senior) 7th in state 215- Taylor Scherer (Freshman) 6th in state HWT- Nathan Pullium (Junior) 4th in state So lets start this epic breakdown: 103- Kyle Griffith vs Ben Denny: I wrestled Denny. No way Griffith can even keep this match up close. Denny was pinning machine so I'm confident that Denny will get the pin here. If, and only if, Griffith can get on top he might be able to keep it close as Denny wasn't "that" good from bottom so this might be the only way for Griffith to score. Still calling a pin at this point. 6-0 112- Derek Scott vs Dan Hurrelbrink: I think this would be a very technical wrestling match but Scott's ability to score points in bunches I think is too much for Dan to handle. Scott was incredible on his feet and insanely tough to score on. Can't see a way Dan wins the match, but I think Dan being a Senior allows him to keep it close. 6-2 match, gives the 03' team a 9-0 lead. 119- Chris Skaggs vs Jake Hagedorn: Big advantage here to Skaggs. Hagedorn was strong and wouldn't give up BIG points but Skaggs would dominate this match up and wins with a major. 13-0 125- Allen Oliver vs Ben Hines: This is a huge match up for the 04' team to win. I give the advantage to Hines in a razor close decision. I think the difference here is Hines ability to score from both top and bottom better than Oliver's ability to score from those positions. 3-2 Hines in a nail bitter. 13-3 130- Billy Whitehouse vs Cory Bankamper: This is a coin flip and I really have no clue how to score this. Whitehouse was awesome on his feet and limited Brad Cooper to I believe only one takedown in their finals match. I don't think Cory scores a takedown, but I also don't believe Whitehouse scores one either. With this match up being decided on the mat, I'm going to give a slight edge to Bankamper. In ride or die, I think Bankamper rides out Whitehouse in OT. 13-6 135- Will VanNorstand vs Bo Hines: This is the first sure fire win for the 04' team. Bo, who was incredible on his feet, scores takedowns at will. I think Bo does enough to get a tech-fall here 20-5. CC is making a comeback 13-11 140- Jessie Holloway vs Brian Wilson: Two non placers here so this match up will be key. To be completely honest I have no clue who Holloway was. However I do know that Wilson was a pretty darn good wrestler. Since I can't speak intelligently on the matter I will give Wilson the edge in a dec. 8-5. This gives CC the edge for a very short time. 13-14 145- Steve Lovewell vs Aaron Hickey: Huge advantage here for South Oldham. Lovewell was a brick house who was dynamite on top and on his feet. He is way too much for Hickey to handle. I think Lovewell scores bonus points here but i'm not calling a tech or pin. I think the momentum has shifted in CC's favor so Hickey keeps it close-ish. 13-4 maj win for Lovewell. 17-14 152- Jamie Cantrell vs Mike Nolan: This is a good match up for CC. Mike Nolan basically went from JV to State champ in less than two months. Mike never wowed me in any way other than he was just a winner. Not sure if Nolan ever really blew anyone out, nor do I think he was much of a pinner. I will give Nolan the edge in a pretty dominate decision, 8-2 and tying the match up into the best match of the night! 17-17 160- Nick Fiser vs Adam Moeves: I'm going to call a big upset here. I think Moeves wins this match up on his feet where I think he was the better wrestler. Fisher doesn't get the chance to be on top where he was very good because Moeves chooses neutral in the third period. 6-4 Moeves, thus giving CC the lead 20-17 171- Greg Minwell vs Jimmy Housz: If my memory serves me correctly, they actually meet in the conso quarter finals in 03 with Minwell winning. However, nobody improved more over the summer than Housz! Fact, he was a machine his senior year. I think he wins this match rather convincingly although he would be unable to score bonus points for CC. 10-3, 23-17 CC 04' 189- Patrick Sims vs Kevin Orth: Both finished 7th in state however Sims was the better wrestler. I like Orth's chances but I can't see him winning this match. Orth was funky and could catch Sims but I don't see that being the case. Sims in a decision 4-0. 23-20 CC 215- Taylor Scherer vs Tim Mosely: Scherer is regarded by many as one of the best upper weights this state has ever seen. That says a lot for a kid that could have cared less about wrestling. He never once wrestled over the summer and only wrestled to stay in shape for football which he played in college. Scherer though would smoke Mosely in this match up. A pin is in the card. This really hurts CC and comes down to the heavy weight match to decide it all. 26-23 SO. HWT- Nathan Pullium vs Andy Hagedorn: I'm going with Hagedorn on this one because in 04 he actually beat Pullium that season. Not sure of the score but because their heavy weights its was either in OT or a pin. I'm going to go with OT dec which actually ties up the dual 26-26. I'm not sure how criteria works anymore but with pins going in the SO 03's favor I'm going to say they win the dual. The HUGE matches: 125/130/160. If South Oldham wins those then this is a blow out, however if CC win those and somebody like Housz gets bonus points then victory goes to CC 04'. Hope you enjoyed Debate begins in 5..4...3...2...1...

Did either of you watch Moeves and Fiser wrestle? Fiser was a good wrestler but he got crushed by Angel Barton the year before on his feet. Angel was a good on the feet wrestler but no where near Moeves. The more I think about it the less of an upset it would be. Moeves ran into a buzz saw his Senior year and lost in a very competitive match up. I think if your going in a dual format I strongly believe these are the TWO BEST TEAMS, not individuals, KY has produced since 2000. (Which was my first year of varsity)

In a dual match up, which matches do you have going the other way? I only counted four victories I believe for the 12 team (Yenter, Stephan, Austin, and Frank). If you could explain why too. You have a ton of insight I know, but want to here your reasoning. Please, remember its what they were that year not the next year or the summer after. Thank you

MLee- The competitor in me say's who cares. However, I'm not an idiot and no way that is that the right way to do it. I saw no problem with the old format whosoever. I didn't see how changing and now seeding the number one seeds improved the state tournament in any way. If this is the "right" way to do it then why haven't others adopted this same format. I'm under a new screen name now but you and I have agreed on an awful lot in the past so I'm not attacking you, I understand your passion and want further insight. My opinion though, which doesn't count for much, I don't see this as a win for anyone other than the coaches involved. I see it as a way to get your kid away from another kid, and the chicken*&$^ of that aggravates me. Again I got at least a solid ten years before my little one is wrestling at the state tournament and when my kid wrestles I would like to see the organization growing and becoming better for the kids involved. To my knowledge they don't seed NHSCA, FILA, or any of the Cliff Keen tournaments. If you draw a stud in your first match so be it, come back and get third right?

Can we close this thread. Looks like we can no longer discuss the match ups between the two teams. I would like to see others opinion on the breakdown.

MLee- just out of curiosity, what makes this the "right" way? What classifies "Right"? If this is the "Right" way why doesn't more follow this pattern? No way only KY can be ahead of the pack

If the cream will rise to the top then why put any effort into separating them?

GOO- The 04' Campbell County team was ranked nationally that year. If I am not mistaken they were some where in the 25-30 range.

I have my own personal beliefs on the "seeding" issue. It's never been an issue in years past so why is it this year? I don't see this hurting or helping the association as a whole, so big picture not a big deal. I'm not sure how many states do this, would like to see the number on it. The only issue I ever had about the state tournament was how the 1 and 3 seed from the same region were on the same side. It killed us one year when a kid got upset at Regional's and finished 3rd. As it played out he then wrestled our returning state champ and regional champ in the semi's at state and beat him 4-3. I strongly believe had the individual been on the other side we would have been in the state finals competing against him instead of taking 6th place. I'm glad that is taken care of. Again why the need to seed? Not being critical just curious, do we really think this will benefit the kids or the sport in any sorta way?

I dont know why I have to keep saying this, but Corbin Woods as a Junior, which he was in 2012, would get rolled up and smoked by Bankamper. No question about it. Cory was a machine his senior year. Again, Paul Hamilton as a Junior against a Senior in Bo Hines would get taken down all over the mat any way Hines wanted too. These can't be serious questions!

I couldn't agree more about the talent and overall quality of wrestlers that the 12' team produced or will produced. No denying that whatsoever.

Tarzan- Two things-- 1. In a dual, no way does the 2012 team come close to beating to 2004 team. No matter how you want to spin it it wouldn't happen. Remember, I'm comparing what they did at that time and not where they are now! Is Matthews a stud? Hell yea he is! But was he this super stud who could beat Adam Moeves or Jimmy Housz as a freshman?? Get out of here! You know absolutely diddly squat if you believe Matthews could even score on one of these two men. Ask anyone at CC, if as a FRESHMAN, could Matthews beat one of these guys and they will politely say "NO WAY". Same goes for Sean. I talked with my old high school coach who has been coaching in NKY since 1974 and he told me Sean is one of the best kids he has ever seen! But could a sophomore Sean Fausz who lost 4 times to TJ Ruschell beat Ben Hines who was a Senior that year? Not a chance! Did the 2012 team have more Nationally recognized wrestlers? Yes. But does that make it a better team? Not even close. The 2009-10 UK basketball team had 5 players drafted in the first round, 2x more than any other team, yet were they the best team? No. It's not about 3 or 4 guys, its about 14 and 2004 CC had NO holes where the 2012 had several. And again this is not a dig at anyone! I enjoyed competing against the 2004 team and I especially enjoyed watching the 2012 team. But realistically they are not even close when it comes to dual or state tournament format. Just saying I enjoy hearing others perspectives this can be a fun topic to debate.

On second thought, Nolan would as a Junior and state champ would pin Turner as a Sophomore. Gives the 04' team 3 more points for a final score of 50-21

This would be bigger than Ruschell and Ervin from a couple years ago, and would probably be the biggest match of the year in our state. I wouldn't put it on the level of Myers and Cooper from last year though, their matches had EPIC hype for Kentucky wrestling.

Was Sean at 32? If so did he wrestle Erdmen and how did that match go?

One thing I will say about Trevor is he is a "gamer". He turns it on when he needs too. What's really going to hurt Trevor is losing Jacob W for the season. That was his drill partner and losing him has a chance to hurt him come State. Now I don't personally think it will because Trevor is too motivated but I could... Knowing Trevor's style, If he stays on the head and aggressive he will win a state title. If he wrestles defensive and on his heals he wont. Will North Hardin be at any tournament Conner is at? Would love to see them meet up before state.

Who won between Meimen and Matthews? Also who won the dual between CC and Ryle? Details?