MLee

Here is a compromise...how about use the Regional rosters? Coaches have to submit their Regional roster to the State host team anyways to ensure the kids are qualified. By that point, all the "quitters" are gone. Also, there still is that incentive for coaches to get their whole team to go to State. Last year we had over 10 kids wrestle at Regionals that did not attend State...drove me nuts!

People will always complain.

Chris, I did say "make an effort." Do you realize last year we had an absolute cluster of a situation w/ the brackets? As mentioned before, I was not in charge of the brackets. I only offered to fix them. I had one night to go through well over 100 brackets. Next time, I'll gladly volunteer you. Also, when did they wrestle each other? If they faced each other in the finals or consolations, that is very common. Many kids have to deal with that.

Pin, I agree we'll ultimately need to change, but we're nowhere near there yet. Cincinnati has more kids attend their larger city tournaments than we do at our State tournament.

I love the idea of big school/small school. To me, this is a no-brainer. 16 man brackets is a thought, but am I the only one that likes seeing more champions? It just seems to me the more kids w/ medals, the more chance we hook them (and their parents) into coming back. I know there are people that want the brackets to be more competitive, which I understand. However, if our focus is on increasing #'s and retaining kids, then more is better. I don't think people realize how bad the brackets would be if we didn't make an effort to separate kids from the same school. They would be terrible. I recall 3 or 4 brackets last year that would have been 8 kids from one team. I also recall a 4 man bracket of S Oldham kids. Why would we want parents to drive to a tournament, in some cases spend the night, spend all the money, to have them wrestle the same kids in their room? Also, separating the Regions are an easy thing to do that (in my mind) should be done, for the same reason. In parts of KY they are wrestling the same kids every weekend. I'm sure they appreciate not doing that at state. So other than appeasing some people's paranoia, I don't see a benefit to pressing a sort button and printing w/out making sure the brackets make sense. The process of sorting is simple. I will gladly outline the guidlines I used to the Association at the next meeting. We should probably agree on these guidelines and write them in the bylaws. I also think it is imperative we have the brackets completed and sent out to EVERY coach in the state a couple days prior. This gives the coaches the chance to review their roster to ensure it is accurate. Last year's SKY situation would have been avoided if this was done. I also don't agree w/ only allowing one point scorer from each team per bracket. I know people will be outraged by this, but think about it logically. We are telling kids who worked their butts off all year that their 3rd place means nothing because they were put in a bracket w/ a teammate who won it or took 2nd. Once again, if you're only concerned with the results and not the lessons we're trying to teach, then this won't make any sense to you. But we teach our kids to fight for team points, even when they had a loss. Team Championships can be won in the consolation rounds and we're trying to prepare our guys at a young age to wrestle back hard. I noticed many brackets where there were two placewinners from the same school. In my opinion, give them both their points.

One other tidbit of information regarding the competitiveness among the teams. At the end of the tournament last year, there were around 10 Head Coaches hovering around the team scores waiting to see what the results were. I'm aware not every coach was there, but these were coaches from mostly the "top scoring/bigger" teams. They're all great coaches who are very passionate about the sport. Each of them were eager to get the final results. If the team scores don't mean anything, why the interest from arguably the most influencial people in KY Youth wrestling? Why not just pack up and get out of there as quickly as you can? My point is, whether they admit it or not, all coaches want to see how their team stacks against others...as they should. And as mentioned before, there has to be a way to evaluate your progress as individuals (tournaments), coaches (#'s, retainment, team results), and our state (#'s, performance vs out of state). Someone made the comment, "w/out team scoring, it is just another tournament." I agree. And as a coach, I need to consider what is best for my team, partake in "just another KY tournament" or go elsewhere. Our program misses out on the best tournament in Cincinnati (Citywide) every year because of Regional and State conflicts. I'd hate to disrupt tradition, but that doesn't seem to be a concern of our Youth Association.

Just trying to lighten the mood, Ranger. By the way, the topic of getting rid of team scores was never even brought up before that meeting. It was brought up as a suggestion, then voted on by mostly Middle School coaches (from what I was told, I was on vacation) and w/in minutes it was changed. I believe it is an important issue that deserves more thought and discussion.

Our payment policy is as follows: $100 for new kids $50 for returning state champs We pay Middle School placers $50 to wrestle for us $25 bounty for beating any CC wrestler

I believe I stated this before, but I can care less about the results. The final results of the tournament should not be our focus. My concern is what happens when the competitiveness is removed. As Raidercoach mentioned, Youth Wrestling in our state has increased dramatically. To me, that should be the fundamental goal of all clubs but certainly that of our Youth officials. If we are achieving our primary goal of attracting more kids/parents/coaches to our sport, why the rush to get rid of teams scores w/ one vote? Why not listen to a few different ideas first? Do the team scores help draw more kids? Does the spectacle of the tournament help retain kids? If so, then under no circumstances do I say we change it. Also, sorry Ranger, I refuse to believe someone with your intellect cannot figure our our team scoring. It couldn't be more easy and I have been baffled how it gets messed up. For those who don't know, here is our youth scoring system: 1st place=4pts, 2nd=3pts, 3rd=2pts, 4th=1pt. Only one participant from a team can score per bracket. THAT IS IT! No advancement points, pin/tech/major pts....NOTHING. Ranger, not sure how in the world you do your rankings, but I'm quite sure it is more complicated than this. All the host team needs to do is receive all brackets and have the ability to add. I'm aware of a few obstacles we have w/ receiving the brackets and blah, blah, blah, but come on! S Oldham did the team scores when we hosted (so we're not taking any credit) and they had it done 5 minutes after the final match and it was accurate. I know, because I triple checked after the tournament. Once again, I'm in favor of exploring all other options before dismantling what appears to be working. We all can agree that Youth Wrestling in our state is much better today. I just would hate for us to take a step backwards after all the hard work.

Ha! I had no idea this topic would snowball like it has. I do love how there is so much passion about youth wrestling in the middle of June. I'm convinced, we need to bring back State Duals at the youth level!

Thunderstruck, you show me that spreadsheet and I guarantee there is an explanation you are not considering. The brackets have to be be "messed" with to a degree. There cannot be more than 2 kids per program in one bracket; therefore, there is a shuffling process of moving kids up and down. Either the heaviest or lightest gets moved up or down. As you can imagine, this creates a ripple effect.

Let me clear the air about the brackets. The brackets were originally sorted by Birth Year and then Weight; therefore, all the brackets were completely screwed up. The brackets are suppose to be sorted by Birth Group....HUGE DIFFERENCE. For example, we did not have 1999/2000 brackets but 1999 and 2000 brackets. What's the problem w/ that? Well, the weight classes had a much larger weight % spread. Almost all the weight classes were 5% or higher. We had many brackets at 9% and 10%. Once we corrected the issue, the average spread was well under 5% (I believe closer to 2%). I have used the software multiple times and was there when we spotted the problem; therefore, I got stuck re-bracketing until 3 AM the night before an all day of wrestling. Also, the previous year, I sent all the brackets out to EVERY coach in the state in advance to eliminate these type of issues. Also, it allows the conspiracy theorists (we seem to have a bunch) to examine the brackets and question anything that looked suspicious. I recommended this to this year's host Region, but they decided not to.

Plantman, you simply got your facts wrong. The brackets were generated by a gentleman from Harrison County. We (multiple youth coaches) noticed they were not sorted correctly the night before, therefore they had to be re-done. The person who generated the brackets was also a High School coach and was unable to fix the problem; therefore, I volunteered to re-sort and print. The 40 SKY kids were left off the master spreadsheet I received from the Harrison County Coach. Not sure how exactly it happened, but it had absolutely nothing to do w/ us.

I guess we had something to do with the 7 Middle School finalist's brackets that came from our club too. We also bracketed the High School tournament to pave the way for all those Ryle State Champions. The only reason Kyle Ruschell was an All American was because our Youth Team conspired to create those brackets too.

We have reduced the price of the camp from $199 to $125. There is a team discount (5 or more campers) of $100 each. Please contact me if you have any questions. Matt Lee 859-391-7600

Where: Sports of All Sorts 10094 Investment Way Florence, KY 41042 http://sportsofallsortsky.com/ When: Saturday March 31st 9:00-11:00 Cost: $13 Walk up/ 5 visits for $50/ 12 visits for $100 Dave Barnes (Head Coach for Walton Verona and NCAA All-American) will be our guest clinician. The focus will be on position wrestling and live wrestling. All skill levels are welcome!!

Thanks to everyone that showed up for our first session last night. We had well over 40 kids and had plenty of qualified coaches. As a reminder to anyone else interested, practices are every Wednesday night 6:30-8:30 and Saturday mornings 9:00-11:00. This Saturday we'll have Dave Barnes and TJ Ruschell.

Schedule is set: Wednesdays (starting April 28th) 6:30-8:30 and Saturdays 9:00-11:00 Price: Per one session $13, 5 sessions $50, 12 sessions $100 No attachment... I'll try again.

Thanks for your help Ranger. First session is tonight from 6:30-8:30. All wrestlers need USA cards. You will be able to purchase tonight if you don't have one.

Thanks Heavy...start date is next Wednesday, MARCH 28th.

Ric Flair and Jimmy "Superfly" Snuka too! We had the Ultimate Warrior, but unfortunately his heart exploded.

6:30-8:30 on Wednesdays...11-9 on Saturday mornings We will also host a camp in late June. More information to come.

Absolutely. All ages are welcome. The clinicians have experience working with beginners to elite High School wrestlers. I know of a few 4 and 5 year olds that will be there regularly.

We'll have kids from all ages and skill level. We anticipate a large group of Youth/Middle kids, but welcome High School kids as well. We'll post a flier soon, but the sessions will be on Wednesdays from 6:30-8:30 and Saturdays 9-11 starting March 28th. As mentioned, Nick Spatola will be the featured clinicians, but others will participate as well (Dave Barnes, Brad Cooper, Steve Kaiser, the Ruschell's, and others). Feel free to send me a personal message if you have any other questions.

There were well over 900 kids this year. An increase of 10%+ over last year's #'s. Ryle had 69 participants.