grappler-of-old

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Posts posted by grappler-of-old

  5. Posted · Report reply

    1 hour ago, Ranger123 said:

    Good stuff there GOO.  Sort of surprised at the balance between semi-states, but with only a 16 man bracket (8-8 split) it almost forces a certain level of balance.  I think the finalist and champ numbers confirm SS1 was clearly stronger at the top this year.  And region 1 is TOUGH right now.

    This is reminiscent of the good ole days when Hop-town and Christian were dominating in the West with Caldwell and Union not far behind. 

  6. Posted · Report reply

    Time to change gears a little bit. 

    Here are the stats on State. 

    Semi Stat in Order

    Placers----------------Finalists--------------Champs--------------Team points

    SS1----56               SS1----17               SS1----11               SS2----799

    SS2----56               SS2----11               SS2----3                 SS1----773

    Region in order

    Placers---------------Finalists----------Champs-------Team Points

    R1----22                 R1----8              R1----6            R1----392

    R5----21                 R3----6              R3----3            R5----278

    R3----18                 R4----4              R2----2            R3----266

    R6----14                 R5----3              R5----2            R6----229.5

    R7----13                 R2----2              R7----1            R7----159.5

    R4----9                   R7----2              R4----0            R8----131

    R8----8                   R8----2              R6----0            R4----120.5

    R2----7                   R4----1              R8----0            R2----115

  7. Posted · Report reply

    6 hours ago, Tbagnky said:

    I, for one, believe that a kid should be able to transfer to whatever school he or she wishes without any penalty. The only argument against this is that only certain schools would get the best athletes. So what? The only reason you wouldn't want it is so that your school doesn't lose said athlete. If we are looking at the best interests of the kids, then they should be able to attend where they feel they have the best opportunity to succeed. Transfer rules only punish kids, athletes in particular. Not so in other scholastic activities.

    Example: Timmy is an excellent trumpet player. He really wants to get a music scholarship for college. The school he attends does not have the best band program and limits his ability to obtain that scholarship. Lafayette, however, has an amazing band program that regularly sends kids to college. Timmy transfers and is able to perform and compete (yes there are band competitions, both ensemble and solo) immediately, without sitting out a year. He then gets his coveted scholarship.

    We should be thankful for kids, like Caleb, coming to our state to compete and that more of our own kids don't move to Ohio, Indiana or Illinois to get more exposure. Ever wonder how many D1 coaches attend those State tournaments?

    I love the pride and passion that each school's fan base has in this state. It belies the sport itself. But the interests of the kids are hardly ever the 1st thing we think about when we discuss the transfer rules. We only worry about how it affects our respective team. Could this hurt certain teams and make others only stronger? Yes. But I believe the collective sport(s) will be better and force schools to get better.

    I partially agree with this.  However if constant transfers occur then there is no competition for the few schools getting all the transfers and programs will cease to exist. I like the idea of one transfer with no questions asked.  That will keep some from multiple transfers, and make them think hard about the 1st transfer.  

  8. Posted · Report reply

    5 hours ago, OhioWrestler&Reff68 said:

    So Scotty, we now have to pick and choose when to call stalling or any other calls and forgo the rule book?  In all my years and all the places that I've officiated I've never heard of this "unwritten rule".  Is it a KY rule that I haven't learned yet?  I remember Herron getting called for stalling for having the foot pinned against the butt and it was call with a few seconds left.  I guess there are others who don't know about this rule besides Andrew Dennison. Rule book is clear on the matter, and I saw that JackFlash posted it word for word from both books.  I am missing where is says-just never ever do it in a state championship match and all others its ok to call?

    -Andrew Dennison

    I for one believe the call at HWT this year was correct call.  Not trying to bring up old grudges, but the foot being pinned to the but was argumentative because the foot had been held there for more like 15 seconds.  It its called in the 1st 5 seconds there would have been time left on the clock.  When called with 3 seconds left it makes it impossible to score where 13 seconds at least gives a small chance.  Two wrongs don't make a right. 

    Now if claimed not seen at first.  It should have been known that it was not put there in the 10 seconds prior to the call therefore it had to be there for a long time.  Now I don't remember if you were the one officiating that match and I have never had a problem with any of the calls that you have made on matches I have been involved with.  Everyone makes a mistake but when one is made criticism  should be expected. 

  11. Posted · Report reply

    16 minutes ago, gameface said:

    Great Throwback picture!! Thank you for sharing. I believe several of those kids were in Elementary school at the time too. Just on the podium alone is at least 9 state HS titles. Does anyone know who the kid In 4th place is. Obviously tough as nails, placed higher than my kid on the podium

    I looked it up Nate Sawyer (Fern Creek)

  13. Posted · Report reply

    25 minutes ago, BroOfCoach said:

    Nothing but respect for your opinion. No issues there.

    As for the officiating, like I said, it wasn't that bad overall.

    My problem with the stalling call in the 285 final was I didn't think he was backing up intentionally. In fact, I just re-watched the last part of that match and the St. X wrestler had double under hooks and was pushing the Madison Southern wrestler while he (Madison Southern) was circling the mat. I don't know what else he could have done. Watch it and let me know what you think.

    As for the rule book being pulled in the finals, I said the same exact thing as you said to the guy next to you. There was an issue in the CIF finals last year or the year before when the same rule was in question. It was a huge controversy.

     

    I was watching that in particular match and was rooting for the MS kid.  I and the person next to me both stated that if he didn't do anything offensive after going out of bounds he was going to be called for stalling.  I saw the underhooks in and him being pushed and knew the call was coming.  He didn't clamp down on the underhooks, and it didn't seem that he was trying to slide out of the hooks.  I wanted the overtime but understood the call, I think the call should have come when he went out of bounds prior to the call, which I don't believe would have changed the outcome.  

    I absolutely hate when these type of calls decide a match, but there has to be 6 minutes of aggression, if not the call can come at any time.  No two officials will call it exactly the same. As I always told GOO Jr.  push the match so the official can't make the call and you have no control over it.  

  14. Posted · Report reply

    11 hours ago, BroOfCoach said:

    Now for the bad part: Officiating. I know it's the same old story. Overall, in most matches, the officiating was not that bad. However, there were some absolutely egregious calls. Text book calls that were blown. Literally text book; the rule is pictured in the rule book. Some of these calls occurred in the finals, unfortunately. The PT coach even pulled the book out in the finals on a call that I thought was clearly incorrect. I knew exactly where he was going in the book because there is a picture of the rule. There were multiple examples of pictured rules being called incorrectly. Then we have examples of refs deciding the match.  A stalling call in the last 10 seconds of a state championship match? I know its not the first time, but come on! It would have been decided in OT. I also saw examples of an assistant official talking the other official into changing his call and the same person, who was not even officiating a particular match, trying to signal to an official to wave off a takedown. That's just unacceptable. We don't have a lot of officials so maybe this just what we have to work with.

    Overall, it was a fun weekend with some good wrestling and a NEW team champion. The 7 year streak of Union County is over. Will PT stay on top?

     

    Wow I was thinking just the opposite, this makes my 42nd state tournament attended (3 as a wrestler, 4 as a spectator and 35 as a coach).  I thought this was one of the best officiated state tournament that I have been to.  Stalling is always difficult to call, but it seemed universal for all officials this weekend.  Calling stalling in the last 10 seconds of a finals match stinks but when you back up for 10-20 seconds its the call you get.  Remember this would not be the 1st stall call so this wrestler was stalling earlier in the match also. 

    As for the assistant ref.  His job is to help the head official make to correct call.  That is what we all want is the correct call made.  If the head official changes the call then good, it was probably a close call where he did not have the exact angle to see the action.  Therefore he takes the assistant officials re-adjustment.  Good for them.  

    The particular call you are referring to where the book was taken out.  I also told the person next to me, "He is taking the book out because there is a picture in the book".  When they didn't change the call, I thought Hmm.  They saw something that I couldn't see way up here in the bleachers. 

    Now for the coach:  Wow was he severely inappropriate, running into the circle, not signaling the official that he wanted a conference at the table, then yelling the entire time.  Then yelling "That is a takedown" when the final takedown was gotten.  The official was extremely patient with this coach.  I am certain that if one particular official was officiating that match the coach would have been removed.  

    Just to make things clear.  

    ****These ore the opinions of GOO nothing more and nothing less.  You can take them or leave them, in the grand scheme of things it really doesn't matter. ***

  15. Posted · Report reply

    6 hours ago, Granby said:

    I posted this a few years back in a forum and found the picture again (albeit a small picture LOL.) 

    For the old timers that remember Frankfort and the Dungeon. 

    Not a "get off my lawn" post at all, but this was by far the best setup for state...........loved every minute of it. 

    dungeon.jpg

    I agree the best atmosphere ever. 

    However I take offense to the old timer statement.  I remember both wrestling and coaching at Atherton High school before The Dungeon :D

  18. Posted · Report reply

    3 minutes ago, panthers said:

    It was not 45 mins because it was middle school. That is the point it is said middle school can do this why cant high school. Because there is a clock on high school not on middle. It is USA Wrestling only a 15 minute break. Thats what I was talking about guess I didnt explain it good enough sorry.

     

    High school follows National Federation Rules. The rules for high school is a 45 minute wait between matches with a maximum of 5 matches during the season and 6 matches in the post season (forfeits do not count as a match)

    Middle School is not under KHSAA rules.  They follow USA wrestling rules. 

  19. Posted · Report reply

    1 hour ago, BigBossMan said:

    Just a couple of thoughts from reading this report. $62,314 receipts, is that from semi-state and the final round combined? Not sure what is classified as Misc & Sponsor expense?(sponsors typically pay) Lastly, with as many medals and trophies that are awarded(weight class, small school, big school), how on earth does volleyball spend twice as much as wrestling? 

     

    KHSAA buys the 112 medals (1st thru 8th in each wt. class), team trophies (1 thru 4 I believe), most outstanding wrestler and most pins award.  

    KWCA (Ky Wrestling Coaches Association) buys the small school team trophies (1st and 2nd), coach of the year and Official of the year, and Coaches Hall of Fame

    KWOA (Ky Wrestling Officials Association) gives coach of the year and Officials Hall of Fame.

  20. Posted · Report reply

    1 hour ago, panthers said:

    I disagree with this statement. Middle school doesnt follow same rules as High School. There is a strict 45 min between match rule that the high school has to go by that middle school uses none. My kid wrestled a match and by the time he got back to his sit he was already back on the board. His wait between matches wasnt even 25 mins. I do like the 32 but you will need the second day.

    Track wrestling keeps a time of when the last match ended.  It will not allow the next match to start until the 45 minutes has elapsed.  When the whistle blew on his last match the time begins, it may not have seemed like 45 minutes but I would almost guarantee it was. The 45 minutes is from end of last match to beginning of next match. 

  21. Posted · Report reply

    2 hours ago, rjs4470 said:

    I believe you can find the P&L’s for the sweet 16 somewhere out there. The last financial statement I could find (2018)’showed total expenses of $465k for the boys Sweet 16. So it looks like they might have. Not to mention they do over $1M in ticket sales, and who know how much in sponsorship so they can certainly afford to pay that much for that event.

    KHSAA also owns the trademark for "Sweet 16". Which is licensed to the NCAA. That is more income they receive for basketball.  

  22. Posted · Report reply

    So it seems that the only problem is venue.  The format at the Horse Park worked.

    Now for the venue.  Will there be complaints when it coast $75-$80 for an all tournament pass?  Will there be parking costs? Food costs at the venue.  All major venues have a premium cost on food, and parking. 

    There will always be some kind of complaint, the main concern is what is best for the wrestler. IMO. 

  23. Posted · Report reply

    1 hour ago, BE BRAVE said:

    You can easily run a 32 man bracket with all the bells and whistles and be done in one day. Middle School has proven it for the last 3-4 years. Even in 2020-2021 at the height of Covid protocol. Look it up. 
     

    here’s what you need. 10 mats, start at 8:00AM sharp. Run it on track open mat available. NO BREAKS IN COMPETITION UNTIL AND ONLY FOR BREAK DOWN OF MATS AND FACE OFF. 

    This has been done for several years now at the middle school level. That’s a fact can not be disputed. 
     

    I forgot to add in my first post 32 man brackets that are SEEDED  

     

    I was beat to the punch on some of this.

    32 man bracket-- If you lose in the 1st round and come back to place 3rd you will wrestle 8 matches. Only allowed 6 in post season in one day. 

    Middle school only has 20 participants in a 32 man bracket. 

    Middle school wrestles shorter periods. 

    45 minute break between matches in high school.

    Not sure how middle school seeds, if you only seed the champions I would be OK with it. I do not like seeding all the wrestlers.  I don't like kids from the same region wrestling each other in the 1st or 2nd round in a 32 man bracket. 

  25. Posted · Report reply

    22 minutes ago, Lowsingle said:

    I agree 100%. There are plenty of places to host that are centrally located. At this point I would drive from Pike County to Paducah for a nice venue for the kids. Martin County drove to Union for state duals a few years ago, If you build it they will come. WV hosts a great state tournament in the Big Sandy Superstore Arena in Huntington which is probably less that 10 miles from the KY border. I'm sure the teams that border Pennsylvania and Maryland don't mind since the venue is nice. 

    You have a lot of faith in school support for wrestling.  I know of several schools that could not go to the state duals when it was at Union because of the travel and cost.