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I couldn't agree more. A great coach and even better person.

Yes, the level of competition in that weight class would be raised for THAT SEASON...but at what long-term costs? Do we really want our State Tournament to turn into nothing more than a Proving Ground for talented 8th graders from surrounding states? Instead of bringing in these talented 12-13 years olds in exchange for team points, why not focus on developing kids who plan on graduating from a Kentucky High School? When the single year 8th grader competes in Kentucky, he is not a Kentucky wrestler...he is temporary Indiana or Ohio transplant. And when his time is done, he returns to his state to become a wrestler who contributes to the level of wrestling in his state. Let's allow Indiana and Ohio to develop their own talent! As a result, Kentucky becomes a "Practice" state for parents willing to move their families for some hardware and for the coaches willing to receive their services. A single year of service may yield a hollow State Championship for a team, but how does it contribute to the growth and development of Kentucky wrestling, and wrestlers, long-term? Our championship is called the KENTUCKY State Wrestling Championships...not the "Kentucky State and Talented Eight Graders from Surround States State Championships." I understand that some will disagree...but this is my perspective.

The single year, 8th grade, move-in cheapens Kentucky wrestling.

Was that the guy who was yelling at Coach Knable when he asked about warming the kids up on the main floor before the tournament?

If we are going to cater to wrestling for the entire state, it seems a central location would be best...Lexington or Frankfort. The Horse Park may not be perfect, but it's a far cry from where we were...a high school gymnasium. When we moved to Frankfort, in the mid-1990s, Jack Kline, of Western Hills, (and others) did a great job of talking with people who had experience with other State Wrestling Championships. He gleaned what he thought would work best for Frankfort and, over the years, it was tweaked and improved. We'll have issues with any venue, but what we do while inside the facility can sure make it special for the kids. And a big thank you for all the hard work that has been done to make our tournament light-years ahead of where we once were.

This thread has taken on a life of its own...

Thanks Coach C. I know we cannot accommodate every tournament in the region, but if we can avoid conflict with other tournaments we might be able to get a better turnout for these types of state championships in our own state.

Fire-breathing Clydesdales...with warpaint...and catapults...oh, sorry.

I appreciate the fact that the Youth State is held in the same venue as the High School State Championships. My son's eyes bugged out when he walked in and saw the set-up. He loved it! Thanks for all the hard work. As for growth in the state, is it possible to get some continuity among the off-season tournament organizers? We have multiple state championships in the off season...how about one sanctioned by the KYUSA or some other branch? We could have our in-state tournaments during the spring season (March and April) and end the season with a State Championship in early May. All in-state tournaments build-up to the championship in May. That tournament could also help determine some of our national traveling teams.

The Horse Park isn't too bad...we may just need some logistical changes. One of the things to see, however, is what a new venue would allow for our finals. And let's try to keep it fairly centrally located.

LOL...I hear ya Tarzan, but we may lose some of our younger viewers!

ctown714...I posted this in another thread, but I think it goes to exactly what you are saying... On Saturday, wrestle all the way back, completing the Consolation Finals, and then take a break before the Championship Finals. (It doesn't have to be too long, but let's recognize these kids for their accomplishments and make it special!) During the break, elevate the Championship Mat, like the NCAAs, on risers under a center spotlight in the middle of the arena. Before the finals, turn off the lights, other than the center mat spotlight, and allow the place-winners, in uniform, to walk around the arena floor and then line up around the Championship Mat, but not on the elevated mat. (Third placers would be led out, then Fourth placers, etc.) Then, have the finalists walk out in two single file lines and line up on the raised mat for a face-off under the lights. We could then have the someone sing My Old Kentucky Home and then the National Anthem. When the wrestlers are introduced, put their pictures (Or live images) on the large team score screen as the announcer reads off their accomplishments for the year/career. (With some time limitations, of course.) Then the boys walk across, shake hands, and the lighter weights could leave to warm up. Put the actual, live, matches on the big screen as well... Award medals between championship matches and keep the thing moving.

Come on man, don't hate. That's a great song.

I wasn't there for the final rounds on Saturday, family stuff, so I am not certain how it all went down...but if we really wanted to highlight the finals, how about this? On Saturday, wrestle all the way back, completing the Consolation Finals, and then take a break before the Championship Finals. (It doesn't have to be too long, but let's recognize these kids for their accomplishments and make it special!) During the break, elevate the Championship Mat, like the NCAAs, on risers under a center spotlight in the middle of the arena. Before the finals, turn off the lights, other than the center mat spotlight, and allow the place-winners, in uniform, to walk around the arena floor and then line up around the Championship Mat, but not on the elevated mat. (Third placers would be led out, then Fourth placers, etc.) Then, have the finalists walk out in two single file lines and line up on the raised mat for a face-off under the lights. We could then have the someone sing My Old Kentucky Home and then the National Anthem. When the wrestlers are introduced, put their pictures (Or live images) on the large team score screen as the announcer reads off their accomplishments for the year/career. (With some time limitations, of course.) Then the boys walk across, shake hands, and the lighter weights could leave to warm up. Put the actual, live, matches on the big screen as well... Award medals between championship matches and keep the thing moving. They may already do some of this, but these are some options.

Does anyone have a completed copy of bracket #89? Thank you.

Do they post the completed brackets?

thank you.

I'm going to be bringing my elementary wrestler down to watch the state finals today, but he does not get out of school until around 3 o'clock. After about an hour drive we will probably arrive around 4:00 or 4:30 and we won't be able to make it tomorrow. Will there still be quite a bit of wrestling to watch after we arrive? I just want him to be able to experience what the state championships are like. Thanks for the input.

When your daughter complains, "Daddy, he keeps popping the heads off my Barbies because he says Ken is practicing front headlocks!"

It all depends on the kid and where they are in their thinking / mind-set. Certainly we want our children to be challenged and "pushed" to an extent, but we also need to know what the child can handle. Some younger athletes like having the opportunity to wrestle against the older kids because of their competitive nature while others prefer to keep to their own age group. As they get older, they will need to "step it up", but there is no rush to do so. (Of course, "older" is a relative term and can mean many things to many people.) If the kid can handle it...great. But if not, he may end up leaving the sport because he was promoted too quickly. I remember the story of a three-time Indiana champ who didn't begin wrestling until he was around sixth grade. His parents didn't push him although his father was an Olympic coach. When Russia was dominating the sport, they often brought their boys up in gymnastics and didn't even allow them to wrestle competitively until around the same age. We have all seen wrestlers crushed under the pressure of an overbearing parent, but we have also seen kids thrive when pushed. The bottom line is what can the kid handle? The rules for the youth events are the rules and, as a parent, I should familiarize myself with them. If I, and my son's coaches, feel he can handle the competition...then he will compete. If we do not, he will not and we will wait until a later time. No shame or wrong in either approach.

Seems that Union has both the aces and the depth for both, but anything can happen. We have all seen teams surprise people.

I am a leg guy, but if you are teaching it, it seems to depend on the kid. Some kids don't have the "feel" to crab rider properly and get themselves into trouble by getting too loose and giving away the opponents hips. It is a bit easier for some of those kids to keep better position with the legs. Ultimately, however, it seems some kids are just better sticking with the spiral and grinding it out.

Some refer to the State Tournament Series as the second season. Others will even go as far as to tell their athletes their record is now 0-0. The state tournament series is a separate beast from the regular season. I understand if we want to make it less intense on the younger athletes (youth and middle schoolers), but we are talking about high schoolers. The pressure of the situation is a huge part of this sport and that pressure intensifies in the state tournament series. Those who have created the rankings have done an outstanding job. It is a very difficult, and often unappreciated, job. But the rankings are just that..."rankings"...they are based on results, but are they to be used to influence the results? One of the great things about our sport is that the results are placed securely in the hands of the participants. Nobody else can miss a shot, whiff on a block, or drop a fly. (Other than the occasional referee mistake.) There are consequences and they are the result of individual performance. When the second ranked wrestler in the state loses a match he should not have lost in the Regional, we are not penalizing him by putting him in the second or third place slot for the State Tournament Bracket. He has placed himself there through his performance. (I am not making light of upsets, but they happen and are part of the sport.) Is it then acceptable to move him based on his prior performance when his most recent performance was not up to par? Possibly penalizing a kid who got on a roll in another regional and placed first as a result? I realize we want to see the best matches in the finals or semis, but shouldn't that decision be made by the kids through their wrestling rather than a committee that creates the most favorable bracket to that end? I am not trying to be harsh, and I understand that these are still kids, but let's keep the results of these tournaments, as much as possible, in the hands of the kids and not try to reshape the brackets based on what we think should have happened.

This sure seems like a feasible alternative. You can then separate all the Regional champions and if the two best kids are from the same Regional, they will be separated due to the Regional results.

In Indiana they have a sectional, regional, semi-state, and state. The only portion of the tournament that is actually seeded is the sectional...the rest of the tournament is based on performance in the previous stage(s) of the state tournament series. The top four are taken from the semi-state and placed in the state brackets based on a predetermined format. This format is "drawn" at some time earlier in the season and it is not released until after the completion of each Semi-State to avoid someone loosing based on what they think will happen elsewhere. After the semi-state they just fill in the names based on their placing at the four semi-states. A semi-state champion will wrestle a fourth place finisher from another semi-state. A second placer will wrestle a third placer from another semi-state, etc. This format allows you to separate all wrestlers from the same semi-state so they do not meet in the second round...they can only meet in the semi-finals or finals. This is how they also used to do it "back in the day" when we still had Districts and Regionals and it worked quite well. They may even use this same format today...although I wish we still had the 16 man bracket. I have not yet sat down to see how it would work out numerically with our current 32 man bracket (and again, they may already do this), but after the first stage of the state tournament series there is no more seeding or possible "politics", it is all left up the the competitors. I am not saying this is right, but it is an option.