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What do the big boys do? When looking at some of the top high school wrestling states in the US, many, if not all, have pretty extensive freestyle/greco programs. Something to consider in the discussion, however, is state population. The larger the population, the larger the pool from which to draw wrestlers...and the more wrestlers you have the more programs you can fill. Below is a list of state populations for those states some consider the top wrestling states. (I realize this list is debatable.) Pennsylvania - 12.7 million / Ohio - 11.5 million / California - 38 million / New Jersey - 8.8 million / Illinois - 12.8 million / Minnesota - 5.3 million / Iowa - 3 million / Indiana - 6.5 million / Oklahoma - 3.8 million / Michigan - 9.8 million Kentucky sits at a state population of around 4.3 million. Only Iowa and Oklahoma have smaller populations, of course they also have longer and stronger wrestling traditions/emphasis. Those larger states have enough kids to do both with significant participation in both. While we have improved greatly over the years, our depth as a state is still a bit shallow. Personally, I do not know which would be best for the state, although I tend to lean toward freestyle/greco in the "off season." With our currently limited participation, however, do we really have enough wrestlers to participate in both successfully on a national level? It seems it would be best to focus on one until our numbers grow enough to have good showings in both. Of course, I guess that takes us back to the original question...which is best? But, at least, we know about state populations now...

I see a lot of national tournaments mentioned on our forum, but do we have many kids going to Fargo during the summmers? If you look at the athletes who placed at the NCAA Division I Tournaments from 2006-2012, you'll see 83.36% of them at least wrestled in Fargo. 69.44% of the Division I All-Americans in that 7-year span also placed in Fargo. (I don't have stats for the most recent tournaments.) Just curious...

Thank you Granby...

Any elementary wrestlers?

I'm not sure about Walls, but Illinois did win.

How far are you from Evansville, Indiana? There might be some opportunities there...

It is definitely a different world than a state tournament! I also see that, sometimes, there are even triple crown winners...kids who win freestyle, greco and the USA Wrestling Cadet or Junior Folkstyle national title. I think Indiana had a kid do that in recent years, Mitch Sliga....currently at Northwestern. That's "big boy" right there!

Tarzan... I saw where you said your son was a Double in Fargo...I am assuming a double champion. That is impressive. It may have been some time ago, but still..congratulations. That always looks good on a resume.

Forget that last post...I found the answer. Here is the Kentucky description in a state by state breakdown of Fargo performance. Kentucky Not traditionally known as a wrestling state, Kentucky has only earned eight medals in the history of the six events, with four of them coming from Joe Carr Jr. Carr gave Kentucky its best finish in 1997 when he made the finals at 143 pounds where he was defeated by Sonny Marchette of Ohio. The Carr family is the same one that produced Nate Carr and Jimmy Carr, who made the 1972 Olympic Team while still in high school.

Have we ever had a Kentucky wrestler win Fargo?

So, does anyone know if any of our kids plan on going to Fargo? My son is a youngster, but I like seeing how our kids match up against that level of competition.

Nature of the beast...

Yes, they have been both...at the bottom and at the top. But if the numbers (recruits) of the private schools were the key to their success, they would have consistently been the best. Of course, you'll get no argument from me that numbers certainly help! You'll also get no argument from me that some of the schools have been more than aided by move-ins.

"Where would they be" is a good question, but let's not assume they couldn't coach up the kids from their own attendance zone. Let's not forget, for a number of years the Louisville Regional, when there were Districts and Regions, was considered one of, if not the, weakest in the state.

Reading these posts, it seems there are some health issues at Alltech Arena for those dealing with allergies. As mentioned before, wrestling at state is difficult enough without having to deal with breathing issues. It is time for the KHSAA to find a venue that does not prohibit athletes from participating due to health concerns. Also, we have talked about building the popularity of our sport, but that seems difficult if visiting fans leave with a headache or breathing issues due to the facility. Earlier I thought that staying at Alltech and making some logistical changes might be the answer, but if a young man is kept from competing, or competing at his best, due to the arena...it seems the KHSAA should look for an alternative. I realize these problems may not affect a large number of spectators or participants, but if one athlete, who has spent years preparing for his shot at a title, is effected, a change needs to be made.

Thank you GOO.

I know some like to use the internet, but others like to have an actual bracket in hand...it's really not that hard to produce them. And wireless reception can always be an issue. If we're concerned the printed brackets will be taken away, can't the KHSAA print and sell the brackets with money-making as the bait? And I saw plenty of orange colored shirts on middle schoolers who could be used to keep those brackets updated. Some could be bout sheet runners, but let others be bracket updaters.

GOO... There should be a number of venues that meet that criteria, but who has the actual authority to get the ball rolling?

I didn't see any, but I could have missed them. Now, the only thing to do is post those larger brackets around the arena so the spectators can keep their brackets updated.

Let's get it going again...people love to keep them as souvenirs... My parents still have them from decades ago!

How about this... We could find sponsors for a magazine-type program to be sold at the door. Inside, near the front, include an image of the preceding year's State Dual and State Tournament Championship teams with a brief write-up on each. On the individual bracket pages, include a picture of the previous years champion, from the podium, along with astricks beside the names of the returning state place winners who are in the bracket for that year. On that same page, provide a legend showing who did what in previous years. ("*" for the first returner, "**" for the second, etc.) Scatter the sponsor advertisements throughout and in the back offer a list of the previous team champions and individual champions for the last ten years. So spectators can keep their brackets updated, post large (12x18) brackets per weight class on poster board at four different locations throughout the arena and have workers update them periodically each round. That way we can have our own brackets and keep them updated.

Thanks IWIN...but I have no intention of running for office. Ha. Ha. In some of our surrounding states, the championship finals are a sight to behold. People will travel to see the finals even when their own school doesn't even have a state qualifier. It is not just the wrestling they are coming to see...it is the presentation.

Well put IWIN...well put...

I couldn't agree more IWIN, but it seems we need to step up by training our own athletes to win championships rather than importing a rental for one year.

I have never met David Carr and know nothing about the details of his situation, but for the sake or our discussion, let's assume he is a one year resident. I don't, however, want anyone to mistake my disapproval of a practice for an attack on a child. My comments have nothing to do with any one person, it is the concept I am discussing. There is a huge difference. To answer your questions... I'm sure the kids in his wrestling room benefited from his presence for ONE year, but why not train an athlete who actually plans on living in the state longer than a season for them to practice against? And what about the Kentucky wrestler who missed out on a year of Varsity experience, Varsity level matches, and the experience/pressure of wrestling at the State Championships? His growth in those areas will have to wait another year, but the move-in will take his experiences in Kentucky back to his state to compete. Concerning the athletes who participated against him in meets...tough matches are not that difficult to find during the course of a year. I am certain there are Kentucky wrestlers who can offer some competition as well as out of state wrestlers who actually stay out of state. I can see where this young man was used as an example by youth coaches, but if he were not in the state, don't you think there would be other Kentucky wrestlers that these coaches could have used as an example? Of course there are. Finally, I'm sure an out-of-state 8th grader can be quite engaging, but I don't think there will be a void of social interaction if these one year athletes are not allowed to participate. There are quite a few engaging Kentucky wrestlers as well.