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Yes sir. They had two Districts that would feed into one Region...top four from district went on to the Region. Then, top four out or region went on to State. Eight Districts, Four Regionals, State.

Referring to the last paragraph...the current Regions were the old Districts, for the most part. Then the two Districts in an area would come together the next weekend for the Regional tournament...a step dissolved by the use of the 32 man bracket. There were 4 Regionals with four wrestlers qualifying out of each for the 16 man State bracket. What was suggested was having 4 Regionals which would allow 8 qualifiers per Regional, making the total of 32 wrestlers per class. I would agree that our numbers may not be suitable for a three weekend series, but it seems to be a good option and it would involve little to no seeding. We currently have about 100 schools that offer wrestling. There were around 70 when we had the 16 man bracket. One could argue that we do not even need a 32 man bracket if you consider that we are allowing about 33% of our varsity wrestlers to be state qualifiers. Of course, I can see support for the 16 and 32 man brackets...dead horse.

If we feel we are large enough to allow 32 wrestlers at state...which is debatable...I think it appropriate to consider a three weekend series. (We actually had three weekends when we allowed only 16 in State and it worked quite well.) Doing so allows the kids to determine their seedings and it takes the rest of us out of the equation. Seed the first meet in the series and then let the kids determine where they end up.

Last year on this forum we were talking about seeding the State Tournament and I believe it was GOO who had a great idea. We run the current Regionals as Districts, which they essentially were before the 32 man bracket at State, and allow the top five to qualify for a Regional tournament the next weekend. The Regional would consist of two combined Districts, again what they used to do, and the top eight qualify for State...wrestling back to ninth for the alternate. This way, we allow the kids to seed themselves based on their performances. The seeds would be 1 vs 8, 2 vs 7, 3 vs 6, and 4 vs 5. This would separate the 1s and if the best two kids were in the same regional, it would keep them in opposite brackets. I understand this makes for three weekends rather than two, but we would just start the series one weekend earlier.

It already has. This morning, before school, I had to tell my elementary aged son that his favorite wrestler will not be participating in the State Championships. Dominic is my son's favorite wrestler...and one of mine. He actually spoke to my son one time and it meant a great deal to him. I cannot begin to understand how the Lampe family feels right now, nor will I try to act as if I can. But I do know that my son learned a valuable lesson this morning...no one is above the rules. (I am certainly not implying that Dominic thinks, or thought, that he is...he is a fine young man and one that I encouraged, and will continue to encourage, my son to imitate.) Either way this situation played out...there were going to be posts that were critical of the decision. If X decided to let him participate, people would criticize them for bending the rules, preferring special athletes, and only caring about State Titles. They chose to go the other route, however, and now we see the results. We can say they were "Unchristian" in their decision, but we must also understand that "showing no partiality" and "doing what you say you will do" are also Christian traits that X is to demonstrate...not that any of us are perfect at it. If this had taken place earlier in the season, it might not have been the issue it is now. We can argue the merits of the punishment or just realize it was a terribly timed event. Either way, I, and my son, will miss seeing Dominic on the mat in eight days.

While I never support name calling or personal attacks, it is simple, in some instances, to understand how it can take place. We have posters on our site who like to "stir the pot." Crazyhorse has even referred to himself as such. When a post turns personal on the part of one, the other will gladly oblige...just part of it for some folks. There are also posters who just want to talk wrestling, but when their views differ from those of Crazyhorse, it often spirals downward into a pile of name calling and personal attacks. If you have read this thread, you see him comparing some of the Catholics at X to Jihadists. How could that not turn personal for someone..especially if they were Catholic? I think Crazyhorse knows what he is doing and what he will have returned in kind. No blood, no foul. Did you really not know the answer to that question?

Sounds like poor sportsmanship. Sadly, kids sometimes act more mature than their parents. Just looking at all the facts. And I think we have to agree to disagree on the definition of "recruiting." But I would certainly agree that there are advantages to attending a private school...never debated that fact or the fact that recruiting does take place. And I do not think I exhibited a "hypocritical, redneck, wannabee, keeping up with the Jones, don't have a clue about wrestling attitude." Merely asking some questions. (Of course you may have meant that last comment about others you have met and their views...not really sure.)

I never said schools do not recruit. If you read my posts you will see that I said many do. It is just that my definition of recruiting seems to be quite different from yours. And the KHSAA allowed that student to jump from one private school to another without sitting out a year. That is an organizational matter. I disagree. There are actually student-athletes who are quite competitive in our sport...not just athletic students. And over the years I have been in more than a few gyms, in more than a few states, and seen numerous fanbases seem to conduct themselves poorly. Did you ask any of those fans why they were cheering? Did anyone tell you they cheered due to an injury? You can assume, but you do not know if you do not ask. (Of course, it is easier to criticize and make accusations than it is to get to the bottom of it.) Some may have been cheering that their kid won and did not realize the other athlete was seriously injured. Many of us have done things in the heat of battle that we later regretted. We already saw an apology for such an action. Every fanbase has folks who take it too far...don't assume they all do! Let me also add that I was not there and did not see it. Just posing some questions... If it was as has been reported, a fanbase cheering because a kid was injured...that is terrible and extremely poor sportsmanship!

If a school offers academic programs that a family wants their child to be involved in, and they choose to send their child to that school as a result, it is not recruiting. The school did not pursue the child, the family pursued the school due to their curriculum. Sometimes families choose schools based on academics and not athletics.

And that matters if a family is seeking a better education for their son and it happens to be offered across a state line?

So does that mean that a youth or a middle schooler who participates for a Kentucky club, but lives out of state, can participate in the State Tournament Series?

Facts can be an issue. Assuming is easy, but actually getting the facts takes some work. I have enjoyed the privilege of teaching/coaching at both public and privates schools. Being a public school guy all my life, I was actually surprised by some of the shared struggles of the students in both settings. (I guess I stereotyped private school kids and was mistaken.) The bottom line is that there is recruiting among public and private schools. One of the major differences is that one has to move into a district and the other does not. Some have transferred in during the wrestling season and transferred out when it is done. Some have parents who are given jobs so their kid can wrestle for a particular program. Others have been offered scholarships and free tuition. The programs who have done these things is up for debate. But I, for one, do not want to be guilty of assuming programs/coaches are involved in this activity without facts. Not rumor...facts.

Are you saying Knable was recruited?

Sorry...decided to delete the post. My bad.

Gotcha...I know who Booby Miles is. Lampe is not a former teammate, but a good kid. And if you notice, I noted how poorly one of the X posters commented on the Krebs match...not as an X homer. Just a fan of the sport making an observation. Just happening to see it differently, but could change my opinion with more information. Merely looking at all the options.

Great post Granby. I think we could all agree that every fan base has a parent on two, or more, who have said or done something in the heat of battle that they later regretted. I do not think that was his intention.

No need to call names Crazyhorse... As I said, I do not know the entire background, nor do you. And I would never suggest bumping a kid if he could be injured. (Of course, anytime you step on the mat there is the risk of injury.) But there is some background to consider. X and Trinity wrestled the Thursday night before the State Duals and there was some bumping of weight classes. Even with the loss by Lampe, his moving may have kept Trinity from bumping Frankrone to give them an advantage in the dual. Even his loss could have resulted in a victory. Lampe and Frankrone have wrestled each other for years. They grew up in the River City program and even wrestled with one another during Frankrone's freshmen year at X. (In the scrimmage this year as well.) They are familiar with one another and their styles, therefore, Lampe knows what to stay away from in that setting. His coaches would also know how the two matched up considering that past history and their wrestling everyday with each other in the past. I am certain they would not have put Lampe on the mat if they thought there was any significant threat of injury or if they felt he was too far over his head. Which he was obviously not.

I am going to go with B10grapple on this one...not the most humble post. Those types of posts contribute to the "hatred" that you say the state has for X. Let's remember that we are talking about 14-18 year old kids. Regardless of size, strength or skill...these are just kids. To accuse an athlete of faking an injury is dangerous. We have all seen kids use "injury time" as nothing more than "tired time." And we have seen kids yell out when going to their backs just to get up and win the match with no apparent injury. I know this can be frustrating...I have been there more than I would like to admit. But how do you know for a fact that the kid you are referring to was not injured? He might have been wrestling with an injury and aggravated it during the match. He might have been competing while injured to help his team and it just got to the point where he could not go on. Let's not attack the kid. If you do not know the facts...then you are assuming...and assumptions are often wrong.

Well... I cannot say I disagree with X bumping Lampe to wrestle Frankrone because I do not know the background....what has been happening in their wrestling room...or what the coaches may know about the situation that I do not. Coaches take different approaches to their programs and I cannot say one is right and one is wrong. Some emphasize the individual accomplishments and others the team aspect. Personally, I like the team aspect. Every year there is only one wrestler in each class that attains the ultimate goal in state...the state championship. That means every one of the other 31 wrestlers in a class will have to deal with defeat. How does the loser respond? If too much emphasis is placed on the individual goal, what happens when that athlete loses? (I am not suggesting we prepare for failure...I hate losing, but athletes need to understand there is more than individual glory.) We have all seen great wrestlers lose in the winners brackets and lay down in the consos. Are they willing to overcome their personal disappoint for the good of the group? Are they willing to overlook their personal failure so the team can succeed? Teams have lost state titles because individuals have quit on their teams. For the rest of their lives these young men will be part of a team. A family, a business, a church, etc. Will they place their personal aspirations above those of their wives and children? The life lessons they learn as a member of a team are invaluable. These boys will live much longer than they will wrestle. Each coach chooses his own approach. And I do not know if bumping Lampe made a difference in the outcome of the dual or not. But a question to ask is this..."Am I willing to give up my undefeated record in the regular season so that my team can win a Dual State Championship?"

Could be a dumb move unless X has a back-up who could win at 170. (I am not saying they do.) That is the thing about programs with numbers...if you have not studied their back-ups, they may have something waiting in the wings. A few years back Frankrone was a back-up to French...not a bad back-up!

The kid Lampe beat is currenlty ranked second in Indiana and was a returning State Champion from 2014.

It would be great if every person was willing to do what is right, but they are not. That is why rules are needed. And even with rules, there are still those who will play in the grey areas and plead ignorance or say, "There is no rule against it." (Of course we could argue what is "right" all day long.) It seems the best way to stop the one year transfer is to make the rule proposed earlier. Any Middle School wrestler who has moved into the area will need to sit our their first year from Varsity competition. They may practice with the Varsity and participate at the Middle School level. After that year, they are eligible for full participation. And, is this really a "state" problem? Do we see this happening at multiple programs throughout the state or is it unique to certain programs? I know there is constant recruiting and attempts by coaches to pull kids out of other programs, but with the Middle School Move-In, is it that widespread?

Creating a format for assembling the most competitive team would not be hard...the difficulty comes with getting commitments to participate from the upper level kids. For Folkstyle, just go down the list of State Place Winners from our KHSAA Championships and offer invitations. The highest placing kid in a weight class who commits is first team, the second highest placer is second team, etc. It is obvious we really need to grow participation in Freestyle and Greco, but we could do the same thing. As participation in these styles grow, use the placers in a Kentucky State Freestyle and Greco Championship.

If you live close to Indiana, I know they have a number of clubs that train in freestyle and greco. River City in Louisville also began their Spring Session last Tuesday which specializes in freestyle and greco.

You're correct Pioneer, most, it not all of those states have Nuway as well as USAW. (I think I alluded to that in my post.) I also agree that freestyle/greco are of great benefit to folkstyle wrestling. March 25th there was a pretty good article posted on this board from Daryl Weber about the benefits of freestyle/greco and how they can help with folkstyle wrestling.