rjs4470

If it’s not, and they aren’t taking alternates, there’s no need to even wrestle the consolation brackets. I think you have to wrestle for true second.

The contingency plan is no different for wrestling than it is for any other sport. Playoff games were forfeited in other sports. Because of issues with securing venues, moving the tournaments beyond the times scheduled has never really been an option. I thinks that's why it took so long to announce a plan. I'm certain, they weren't sitting on their hands, procrastinating time away. Putting events together that require a lot of competitors and support to hold, in a time where every venue is limiting numbers, is not an easy undertaking. Unless you are on the board, you have no idea the logistical and likely political challenges they are facing to make this happen.

Got it. That does change things some.

Unless I'm reading it or interpreting it wrong (which is possible) the return to play guidelines issued by the KHSAA in September specifically say 10 feet between mats is required. It's under Event Setup on page 17. This is the biggest issue we've been facing in trying to run wrestling events. This literally cuts the space we have available for mats in half. https://khsaa.org/resources/Covid19/CovidResumptionofSports/ApprovedVersion/Winter/wrestlingcombined.pdf EVENT SETUP ➢ Put a hand sanitizer station mat side. (RECOMMENDED) ➢ Provide sanitizing wipes at the scorer's table. (RECOMMENDED) ➢ Table workers must wear gloves. (RECOMMENDED) ➢ Mats must be cleaned between matches. (REQUIRED) ➢ Spacing between mats must be 10 feet (REQUIRED)

Obviously 16 man brackets solve many of the problems. But one of the issues that hasn't been mentioned as to why they chose 8 man brackets I think is related to mat spacing. Current guidelines are requiring 10 foot spacing between mats. I'm not sure there are many HS gyms that will accommodate 4 mats with the now required spacing. Most gyms will only be able to fit 2 or 3 at most, and it's tough to run a 16 man bracket efficiently in one day without at least 4 mats. 8 man brackets can be done on two mats in one day, which means no overnight stay is necessary. A 16 man bracket at region is fine, because most teams won't need to spend the night, and the event can be spread over two days.

I get it. And I understand why so many are upset. What's been presented is certainly far from perfect, and yes there are likely better solutions that are available, maybe even beyond what's been presented here. It's just hard for me to be super critical when I don't know what directives the KHSAA are receiving from the State. None of us know unless we've been on that Board. Again, no sport has gotten what they've wanted or felt their athletes deserved for the last 12 months. Doesn't mean it's ok, but it just is what it is. I don't believe the KHSAA hates, or doesn't care about wrestling. This is an unprecedented time, with issues that we've never seen or had to deal with before. Sports has mirrored policy in general....things change quickly, sometimes overnight. Rules are made, changed, and then changed again. It makes planning very difficult. My company stages many events in several states, and I can tell you, event planning has been virtually impossible due to regulations set forth by the state and local governments as well as venues, which often play by different sets of rules. It's been so difficult, it's to the point where we just aren't doing events of any size. I can only imagine the same is true for something like the State Wrestling Tournament. We all knew this year was going to be different. Hopefully, things are better next year. I am trying to make the best lemonade possible with the lemons that we've been dealt.

You're right...perhaps it doesn't have any relationship. What's done is done. Just offering some perspective, and maybe the idea, that this could be much, much worse than it currently is.

What was the old contingency plan if a wrestler got sick before or couldn't compete at state for some reason? And unless we have served on the KHSAA Board of Control, we have no idea what they have had to go through, and what limitations have been imposed on them from the BOE/State. The KHSAA gets their marching orders from the State/BOE...they are not an autonomous organization. It's really easy to armchair quarterback and be critical of this whole situation, but unless you know exactly what the cards were that they've been dealt by the folks that they work for, it's not fair to say they've completey whiffed.

The ability to wrestle back to 3rd is certainly a drawback. And certainly some kids who would likely have placed, won't get a chance. But this has been an unprecedented season and year for all sports. There are baseball, softball, track and tennis athletes that didn't even get to compete last year. 16 boys, and 16 girls basketball teams didn't get a once in lifetime opportunity to play at Rupp arena for a state title last year. Some football teams were forced out of their last games due to Covid cancellations in the playoffs. While this format for wrestling may not be ideal, wrestling has gotten a much better deal than almost every other sport in the last 12 months. It's by no means perfect. But lets see how it plays out before completely condemming it. My guess is that it will be better than we think, even if it isn't perfect. I had to live through watching a bunch of seniors I've coached for several years miss out on their senior year of baseball, most of which, weren't getting the opportunity to play in college. Careers ended, without even a chance to swing a bat, or make a pitch. I would have killed for them to get the chance that wrestlers are getting, which is to have somewhat of a season (albeit a very different one) and a chance to compete for a state title. Coming from that perspective, I'm looking at this as a glass half full moment, rather than something terrible.

Ok, I can't completely argue with that. But arguing that part of it is really just semantics. In theory, you're still looking at the "top 8" wrestlers in the state, that have won their way to that position, which is no different than the regular 32 man bracket with 8 placers, who also had to win their way into those positions. And even under normal conditions, there were always top kids that didn't make the podium, whether it was due to a bad draw, dumb luck, an injury or a bad day. People have complained for years about how watered down the 32 man bracket is. Now suddenly, it seems everyone loves the 32 man bracket.

I'd guess that cost and lack of allowed attendance is almost certainly a factor. When you think about the fact that the KHSAA both Sweet Sixteen's, all the revenue from the 2020 spring sports State tourney's, and almost certainly did no better than break even in the 2020 football finals, the KHSAA budget has to be really thin, and maybe running on fumes. No sport has gotten what they've wanted for the last 11 months.

Yep. And the criteria isn't really that complicated. I've seen track used to seed tourney's with basic criteria, and it does a really good job. It may get a little dicey if you have two returning state champs without a head to head matchup. At the regional level, most seeding will go off of head to head then state placement from last year. Semi-State could get a little dicey because of unbalance in regions and the fact that there might not be as much head to head. By the time you are at State, seeding really won't be as much of an issue, as in theory, everyone there will be really good. Yes it's unfortunate that some good wrestlers won't get to go to State. But good kids every year get bad draws. There are always a handful of quarterfinal matches at state that should be semi final, or even finals matches because of the random draw. That same thing will happen this year, it's just going to happen at semi-state.

We really need to stop comparing wrestling to basketball. A basketball game takes about an hour of actual playing time, with less than 50 players, coaches etc. probably can get those games done with less than 150 total people in the gym including spectators. You then clear the gym, sanitize, and move on to the next one. Even a 16 man wrestling tournament not only more than doubles the number, it increases the time these people stay confined together in a gym/arena. It’s the sheer numbers that are required to hold a wrestling tournament in an indoor confined space that’s creating the issue....not the KHSAA’s lack of love, understanding or respect for wrestling.

This is going to be the policy for any larger arena. Large arenas subcontract the food service through outside organizations. Outside food hasn't ever been allowed in the Horsepark that I'm aware of, so this really isn't a big issue.

Another reason for a location to be centrally located is that many school districts have restrictions on travel distance and/or aren't allowing overnight stays for athletic teams,

Suggesting the venue is the easy part. Getting the venue is what is going to possibly be difficult. I don’t know what the status of that particular venue is, but many large venues simply aren’t hosting any events. Some of it is by choice, some is because local regulations aren’t allowing them to host large events. We are in an unprecedented time, and solutions simply won’t come quickly or easily, and what seems like it will work one day, might not be a solution down the road as things change.

That’s still over 500 people in a gym. Our school has a decent sized gym and capacity is limited to a little under 200 people including participants. Large regions and state will likely need to be held over several days, maybe even over two weeks if held in a high school gym because of attendance limits. Since it’s inside, the participants have to be included in the total count. Larger venues just aren’t willing to hold any events right now, so it’s almost certainly going to be in a gym.

I guess I should be clearer. We are on the same page.I was only guessing at the reason why the change was instituted for this year. I’m not a fan, and don’t think it provides any real benefit. I’m not sure how shaving a minute off the first period helps anything. I don’t think 5 minutes of wrestling is any better than 6 in terms of controlling or limiting the spread of COVID.

It does limit total contact some. I would say the advantage would be shortening the overall time time that teams are in the gym, but the 30 seconds between periods wipes that time savings away.

To me, it doesn't seem like lower weights are affected all that much....all just bumping up a pound or two, and no weight classes lost in terms of numbers. 195 seems to be the weight that goes away, as those kids will have to cut to 189 or move up to 215 and will be affected the most. A kid who's 220 now can either cut a little bit of weight, or just eat what ever they want. I think it makes 220 and 285 more competitive. Overall, I don't mind the proposal. I don't think it will be all that disruptive to the majority of teams as most teams now only have to find 3 big guys instead of 4, and one less weight class will make the days a little shorter. Hard for me to argue against the proposal.

I would agree that you need to constantly evolve to keep growing. The “selling” however, needs to happen at the lower levels. I’d guess most in attendance at State are families and parents that are already sold on wrestling as a sport. Keeping the old blood is important. To grow, we need new blood. And the “khsaa hates wrestling talk” isn’t exactly a great selling point.

Good points. I've always felt these things matter way more to the parents than to the participants. They want all of these things done for the people that care about them the least. Of course these are the same parents who complain about participation trophies, so who knows.

I think many look at what the KHSAA does in comparison to what other states do, which really isn't fair. Wrestling is far bigger in other states, and it's logical to think that their tournaments are bigger deals, held in bigger, nicer venues. But if you think it's a "The Khsaa doesn't care about wrestling issue", I encourage you to check out other sports in the state. The state softball tourney was for years held in a beer league softball complex with temporary fences on fields that didn't fit the sport. Tennis doesn't even have officials at matches....calls are made by players on the honor system. Any idea where the state golf tournament is held and how to buy tickets? I agree, the state tourney needs some work. But it's gotten better every year over the last 7 or so that I've been around. We would be taken more seriously if we lost the "no one cares about wrestling", "woe is us" attitude that is often displayed. You cannot compare wrestling with what is done for Basketball or Football. It's not an apples to apples comparision.

Outside of the big sports, what the KHSAA does for wrestling is pretty on par with every other non major sport, and in some cases is even more. Could they do more? Absolutely. But the KHSAA is not singling out wrestling as being not important, or treating it like a stepchild. The KHSAA doesn't do rankings for any sport (outside of football where they do an RPI for playoff purposes). The rankings you see are all done by outside sources.

Sorry...I didn't realize we were just to throw out ideas, and not actually discuss them. Carry on.