rjs4470

Not naysaying. Just being realistic. Is none of what I've mentioned worth considering? We are asking D1 college basketball teams to give up their building for our benefit, without getting much of anything in return, and getting mad about it. For what it's worth I love the idea of hosting at one of the bigger colleges--Western, Morehead, NKU, wherever. The reality is, due to the commitments and requirements needed for their basketball teams, they simply aren't an option in February. No college is going to bump their basketball teams from their home for high school wrestling (or any other sport). And there's no amount of money, effort, want or need on the wrestling communities part that's going to change that. The smaller wrestling colleges in KY aren't an option either due to venues that are too small. Again, nothing we can do to change that. Going to one of those small venues would be a step back. I offered my solution. We need to look at changing our post season dates if we want to get into one of those better, larger venues. But as GOO mentioned, overlapping post seasons is something the KHSAA tries to avoid regardless of sport. But hey, if you want to keep talking about how those larger facilities would be great, without considering the realities I've brought up, by all means go right ahead. My point throughout all of this has been trying to get folks to understand that there's a lot that goes on in these decisions. And that while an idea may seem like the perfect solution, there are circumstances (that we have no control over) that make these solutions possibly unworkable, many of which are beyond the KHSAA's or the wrestling community's control. There are certainly many possible solutions. However, all of them will require some sort of compromise on everybody's part.

Again, Memorial is the home arena for UK's girls basketball team, so anything in February is probably a no go.

Yep. All good points, and hopefully, it helps everyone understand that it's not as simple as it sounds. No sport operates in a vacuum, and there's a lot of moving parts and decisions that are dependent on other decisions. It's a big puzzle, and with covid this year, I can only imagine how difficult it was to get all the pieces to fit.

WKU, EKU, Morehead, NKU all have D1 basketball and likely wouldn't be willing to give up their arena for a few days during the stretch run of their basketball season. This goes back to schedule. If we want any of those places to be in play, we would likely need to shift our season back a couple of weeks, mirroring Ohio's season, with state taking place sometime in March.

Don’t know about the other two, but Bellarmine’s field house only seats about 2100, and likely couldn’t fit more than 3 mats. And they likely won’t give up Freedom during basketball season.

Bellarmine plays their home basketball games at Freedom since moving to D1.

I don't know all the particulars related to each venue. If Broadbent is not an option, what other centrally located, non college basketball arenas are there? I know Pikeville has been floated, and capacity wise it works. It's just so far away from much of the state. Unfortunately, it's not just as simple as saying "let's hold it here".

Unless you change the timing of the State Tournament, it will never be held in Rupp or any other basketball arena . Mid February is the home stretch of the college basketball season, and no way will UK or UL give up their digs for a few days for wrestling or any other high school sport. And Freedom is out also, because Bellarmine plays their home basketball games there. It works for the Sweet 16 since college basketball is well into the NCAA tourney by the time HS basketball is running their event. I'm also not sure wrestling could fill a big arena. The horsepark holds about 5500, and I'm not sure that it's ever sold out. Rupp is 4x larger, and even if we doubled attendance, it still might not be half full, which I think would hurt the atmosphere more than holding it in Rupp (or any other large arena) would help it, especially if you think Alltech wasn't "intimate" enough. Broadbent might be a possibility, as it is about 20% larger than Alltech in terms of capacity, even though it feels smaller. I seem to remember though, they always host something during the time period the KHSAA traditionally holds the state wrestling tourney. If that's the case, it's back to schedule. Perhaps pushing the season back a little woud help in not only securing a different venue, but also in attracting more football players since there's less of an overlap.

They had to go to semi state with Region 6 which is pretty deep in most weight classes.

And one of the reasons we don't get or keep officials is from the constant harping about how bad they are.

I'm not saying we should be happy with what we've got. We should always strive to get better. I'm not thrilled that all the coaches that have worked with the kids all year might get excluded. I'm just saying that Covid has resulted in attendance and other restrictions that we haven't seen in the past. I'm also just pointing out that wrestling is not alone in wanting more. And that some of the issues we complain about are present in other sports. And I get the feeling that the wrestling community often takes things more personally, and more often goes into attack mode against the KHSAA. While I'm not completely defending the KHSAA, I also think they've got a tough and thankless job to do, especially in the midst of a pandemic. The decisions they make are not because they "dislike" a sport, and I don't think it's fair to make that characterization. I'm not happy with what we got. I hate the semi state setup. I've already been through a less than ideal football season. I just wrapped up wrestling season. And who knows what baseball season will look like. And my heart still aches for those who lost their seasons last year. There have been tough decisions that have been made over and over again over the last year. I do believe they are doing what they think is best, and I don't believe they are doing it with any ill intent toward any one sport. I'm just sharing what I know about the decision making process, to shed some light on how or why some of these decisions might have been made. I've found that no one is interested in hearing any of that though. I wish everyone luck at semi state and state, and look forward to a more normal 2021-22 season.

All good points. My only point is that wrestling is not being singled out. I've been to the state tournament in Football, Volleyball, Baseball, and basketball. All are expensive to attend. Teams that make the final four get no individual awards in any of those sports, only a team trophy. Volleyball is held in a high school gym. Baseball went back to a semi state format 2 years ago. Yes, I will readily admit that basketball gets the best venue, and the most coverage. However, that's true in most states. Could the KHSAA do better for wrestling? Absolutely. But you could say the same thing about nearly every sport. We as a group need to continue to provide constructive feedback. Aside from this covid year, I've seen improvements from where we were 10 years ago.

I know the general perception is the wrestling receives little respect. Personally, I have experience either as a coach or parent in 6 different KHSAA sports. While wrestling doesn't have a perfect situation, there are sports that get less than wrestling.

I can't argue with that. I don't know what was offered, available, or the costs associated. Obviously, location was a big issue in the final choice, with GRC being somewhat centrally located.

Agreed if this were a normal state tourney with 8-10 mats. However, will the tourney be split across two gyms with only 8 man brackets? Will there be more than 3 mats? If one gym, and 3 or even 4 mats, 2-3 coaches should be able to cover things for most of the teams. Even the bigger teams aren't likely to have 3 wrestlers wrestling at once.

It's 60 percent IF the total can be accomodated with the appropriate social distancing.

Don't know if it's the entire staff...I don't see where that info has been released. But if you think about it, even if 4 or 5 coaches get in for basketball, the ratio of coaches to players is roughly the same for basketball as it is for wrestling. If you qualify 10 for state (which most teams won't) you have a 1 coach for every three or so wrestlers ratio. If you have 5 wrestlers you get a 1 coach for every 2.5 wreslters. Basketball rosters are limited to 15, so by extension, keeping ratio's the same, basketball SHOULD get 4-5 coaches. If you look at comparing apples to apples, basketball isn't being treated any differently in the coaching numbers aspect.

Again, I don't think it's a money grab. Remember, we have limited attendance. Every coach, means one less parent/fans. And with only 8 man brackets, and 3 or 4 mats, you won't have situations where you need a ton of coaches to cover multiple wrestlers. Look, I get it, it sucks. But you can't make the argument that it's for the kids, when you'd rather have a bunch of coaches that aren't needed, at the expense of excluding parents/fans etc.

With limited attendance though, is it really a surprise there would be a limit? Every coach that's in the building is another Parent/fan that can't attend. And has been mentioned, how many coaches do you really need, especially when there are on going to be a few mats, instead of 8 or 10?

Has it been confirmed they are charging seperately for the finals?

I do agree. I'm not necessarily opposed to a semi state tourney, but the regions need better balance in order for that to work. I'm convinced though, that no matter what is decided, or how the tournament is run, some people will be completely unhappy, and continue to scream about how much the KHSAA hates wrestling.

Again, this isn't any different from years past. 1 day passes at state have been around $20 forever, and you've always been limited to the number of coaches that get in. And the same rules apply to every sport.

None. Only the 16 coaching staffs of the participating teams will get in for free. Everyone other coach will have to pay.

For the regions 5/6 semi state, I wouldn't call the seeding terrible. Only two weight classes at first glance seem off, one of which (220) is explained here. 138 with the 3rd place finisher in region 6 getting the one seems off, but might have the same type of explanation as 220. TKC might have a pretty good argument for the 1 seed, but at least the top two guys are on opposite sides. I haven't looked at the other semi states, and frankly with the lack of travel and tournaments, I don't know enough to legitimately comment. There will always be complaints about seeding, just like there were complaints about the random draw. I'd say at least in the 5/6 semi state, the seeding overall, worked out better than a random draw. I also kind of like the fact that the seeding method takes into consideration the whole body of work, rather than someone catching lightning in a bottle during the region tournament.

Where does it say coaches are being charged? I see where the team party is limited to two coaches (which makes sense with attendance limits) unless the team has more than 6 wrestlers, in which case you get three. I also see where coaches passes aren’t accepted, but that’s not unusual for postseason events. But I don’t see where it says coaches with the team party have to pay. I hope I’m right, because charging coaches would just be flat wrong. As far as cost of tickets, isn't this roughly what you'd pay for a one day admission to the state tourney in a normal year? No it's not cheap, but it's not out of line of what it's cost in the past. It's also in line with what you'd pay at other state tournaments. When my son's team made it to the state baseball tournament, and advanced to the final four, 3 games+3 days of parking for two people cost us over $100.