BroOfCoach

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Posts posted by BroOfCoach

  4. Posted · Report reply

    There are lots of great potential day 1 match ups.

    120- Dennis vs Evans in the Quarters

    138- Whorton vs Morris and Luttrell vs Meyer in the Quarters

    150- Wojcicki vs Ray in Rd2, Trumble vs Brown in the Quarters

    165- Matney vs Butler in the Quarters.

    175- Ricketts vs Dingus and Duke vs James in the Quarters

    190- Castle vs Kiser in the Quarters

     

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  5. Posted · Report reply

    1 minute ago, GentleBeard said:

    Not only did he have the cross face, but he held that position past reaction…plus 12 more seconds. When he didn’t get his 2 awarded, he put his arms behind his opponents to see if that would trigger a takedown. He had more control of his opponent than what’s necessary via the casebook.

    I do remember him putting his hands behind his opponent's arms trying to see if that would change things.

  6. Posted · Report reply

    19 minutes ago, JackFlash said:

    No, was one in the gym at the time of the call and other calls being discussed. No dog in the fight just observations of the rules and how they apply. 

     

     

     

    Same here. No dog in the fight. No sour grapes. Not coaching. Just pointed out what I thought were some blown calls in the biggest moments of the tournament. 

    • Like 2

  7. Posted · Report reply

    21 minutes ago, grappler-of-old said:

    Wow I was thinking just the opposite, this makes my 42nd state tournament attended (3 as a wrestler, 4 as a spectator and 35 as a coach).  I thought this was one of the best officiated state tournament that I have been to.  Stalling is always difficult to call, but it seemed universal for all officials this weekend.  Calling stalling in the last 10 seconds of a finals match stinks but when you back up for 10-20 seconds its the call you get.  Remember this would not be the 1st stall call so this wrestler was stalling earlier in the match also. 

    As for the assistant ref.  His job is to help the head official make to correct call.  That is what we all want is the correct call made.  If the head official changes the call then good, it was probably a close call where he did not have the exact angle to see the action.  Therefore he takes the assistant officials re-adjustment.  Good for them.  

    The particular call you are referring to where the book was taken out.  I also told the person next to me, "He is taking the book out because there is a picture in the book".  When they didn't change the call, I thought Hmm.  They saw something that I couldn't see way up here in the bleachers. 

    Now for the coach:  Wow was he severely inappropriate, running into the circle, not signaling the official that he wanted a conference at the table, then yelling the entire time.  Then yelling "That is a takedown" when the final takedown was gotten.  The official was extremely patient with this coach.  I am certain that if one particular official was officiating that match the coach would have been removed.  

    Just to make things clear.  

    ****These ore the opinions of GOO nothing more and nothing less.  You can take them or leave them, in the grand scheme of things it really doesn't matter. ***

    Nothing but respect for your opinion. No issues there.

    As for the officiating, like I said, it wasn't that bad overall.

    My problem with the stalling call in the 285 final was I didn't think he was backing up intentionally. In fact, I just re-watched the last part of that match and the St. X wrestler had double under hooks and was pushing the Madison Southern wrestler while he (Madison Southern) was circling the mat. I don't know what else he could have done. Watch it and let me know what you think.

    As for the rule book being pulled in the finals, I said the same exact thing as you said to the guy next to you. There was an issue in the CIF finals last year or the year before when the same rule was in question. It was a huge controversy.

     

  8. Posted · Report reply

    41 minutes ago, JackFlash said:

    I all just love these post year after year.  Its nice to see coaches and fans who have no concept of the rules and how they apply comment as Sunday Morning QB.  Coaches and fans always want stalling calls as long as it not against their kids.  Or officials should only apply the rules when the fans and coaches think that it's appropriate for their enjoyment/entertainment so that it's better for them as spectators. You all must think officials sit in the locker-room prior to the tournaments or finals and draw squares to see which kid to ENFORCE the letter of the rule against and which kids they can look the other way.  Rule 7-6 ART 2... When a referee recognizes stalling occurring at any time and in any position, the offender shall be warned and thereafter violations shall be penalized when stalling recurs.  These provisions require the referee to penalize stalling without hesitation....  I type that again, without hesitation.... Not for your enjoyment or to take the match into overtime.   Let's talk about Coaching, teach your kids to wrestle, not avoid contact, don't back up 30ft when being pressured.  Sounds like this is a coaching issue and not an officiating issue.  Page 85 and page 86 of the NFHS Wrestling and Case Book and Manual.  Wait, what you say, there is a NFHS Case Book and Manual for Wrestling?  I bet there is some good information in there. Section 6; 1.  Stalling must be removed from wrestling.  The responsibility for doing this is shared by COACHES, WRESTLERS and Referees.  The COACH is responsible for TEACHING an aggressive style of wrestling, requiring wrestlers to work for a fall at all times.  The wrestlers shall avoid the use of stalling tactics and make an honest attempt to wrestle aggressively, whether in the top, bottom or natural position.  The referee shall be firm in enforcing the letter of the rule and the spirit of the rule and consistently penalize stalling infraction without hesitation.  All three groups must work together to ensure that wrestling is exciting and interesting sport.  Well sounds like the official did his part and the wrestler and coach didn't do their part.  I guess that's just the hand some of these officials are delt with here in KY.  #4, what there is more to this story?  Why yes coach, let's educate you.  #4 page 86; Factors that contribute to stalling are varied. Every effort must be made by both COACHES and REFEREES to discourage such tactics. (Wait, didn't you just read that?) In the neutral position, it is the responsibility of both wrestlers, regardless of the SCORE or TIME remaining, to make every effort to stay within the 10ft circle, to make contact, to maneuver to set up a takedown, and to follow up by attempting a takedown.  Referee should use commands "Contact, Center, Action" when appropriate to communicate that action needs to occur by either wrestler.  A wrestler may circle to set up the takedown, BUT BACKING AWAY from the opponent, avoiding contact or playing the edge of the mat are examples of stalling.   I'm having difficulty finding where it says to ignore stalling and let it be match be considered in OT.  Didn't the aggressor do is part by trying to wrestle aggressively?  Yet the other kid avoided wrestling so we should award him another period?  That's just unacceptable that we don't have good coaches here in KY, maybe that's what we have to work with?

    I will NOT even go into the responsibilities of an assistant referees and their use. Sounds like some calls didn't go your way and you're just sniveling because no one else will listen.  4 set of eyes are better than two and multiple angles looking at the results of action are better than two.

    Pictures in a book, just because a picture is in a book doesn't mean that is what played out on the mat, one coach is always going to see it is way.  So, two officials looking at the same move and they talk about it, and they call didn't go his way.  I only saw 3 people in that 28ft circle, just where were you sitting again?  How many years do you have on a whistle and at what level and experience.  Just so we know your qualifications other than a Sunday Morning QB.  I was 100 ft away and I couldn't see it all that well to make an unbiased decision myself.

    Here is the link to the site so you can get a rule book and case book for next year.  NFHS  

     

    Someone else suggested and posted a link to become an official to stop bitching and be part of the solution.  But I suggest you will not and just continue to be a keyboard warrior because you have 20 years of officiating.  You're probably one of the coaches who disappears till fall again and doesn't keep his kids on the mat and travel, so they get better.  You'd be amazed how many KY officials travel to national level events all over the US, many of them do college while the others at the state tournament do some very high-level national tournaments, FARGO, VA Beach the Stampede.  You F-up at these events you don't return.  But hey, you know what's right looks like I guess.         

    So you're the ref that made the call!?

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  9. Posted · Report reply

    1 hour ago, Elite Training Center KY said:

    I agree with this 99%. Most exciting finals I have seen in a long time in KY. As far as officiating it's a mess. It's bad for wrestlers and bad for fans and trying to grow the sport. Pretty sure I saw 10 different calls on out of bounds. Zero consistency on what a takedown was. Fraziers takedown in finals was called a takedown in 20 matches before but when a rule book was pulled out showing a takedown It wasn't all of a sudden. I have no dog in the fight so I didn't care either way but I still would like to know what a takedown is.
     

    As far as TJ Meyer match if you want to see something really crazy go back and watch the match in the third period. The ref was directly in front of them and Raney would stand up and try and touch hands to the mat to get locked hands call 3-4 times. From my understanding that is unsportsmanlike and 1 point but instead they gave locked hands which is a 2 point swing. It is clear in the video on flo if you would like to go watch for some entertainment! 

    As far as the 1% I don't agree with is venue. Does It suck it's at a HS yes but it was done extremely well imo. The issue is the stands were not full for the finals which is pretty embarrassing. Even Union seemed drastically lighter than their normal crowd. I don't see KHSAA pushing for a venue until there is a safety concern. If you want to change venues, sell out the HS so they are forced to. 

    All in all the depth seems to be growing and there were a ton of great matches. 

    -Nathan Boston

     

    A wrestler mentioned to me that they had once been called for unsportsmanlike conduct for doing the same thing. I was not aware of that rule but it's just another example of poor officiating. It seems they simply do not know some rules. Man, what an upset that would have been!

    As far as the venue, I do agree it was ran well. I just don't think it was a good venue until the finals. It was an excellent finals. If the bottom bleachers could be out at all times it would be much better but then we wouldn't have enough room for mats. I do think it will be at a different venue soon. I've heard Alltech again as a contender. :/

  10. Posted · Report reply

    Some thoughts on the state tournament:

    Venue: same issues as before. Great facility but not a good host for an event like the state wrestling tournament. Too crowded. Limited views depending on where you sit. I am thankful they pulled the stands out for the finals. The finals were actually done well. The first day taking place during school is just ridiculous. Just another reason we need this event at an arena.

    Wrestling: The current post season format leads to the most competitive state tournament. Not much fluff. Some classes were an absolute battle just to place.  A few classes had very highly ranked wrestlers fail to place or place much lower than their ranking. At least couple of former #1s failed to place. Most of the finals matches were competitive, some a lot closer than expected. Several very exciting ones. 120, 132, 138, 190, 215, and 285 were barn burners. Have to give a shout out to TJ Meyer for making things very interesting in a finals match against Raney that many thought would be a blow out. I also have to mention Uriah Virzi. He was basically left for dead after being penalized for locking hands then giving up a reversal in the final period and then trailing 3-1.  But a reversal and huge lift and pin later, he avenged his two losses via pin to Kizer to become a 2x champ. Overall, I was very satisfied with the wrestling, especially the finals.

    Now for the bad part: Officiating. I know it's the same old story. Overall, in most matches, the officiating was not that bad. However, there were some absolutely egregious calls. Text book calls that were blown. Literally text book; the rule is pictured in the rule book. Some of these calls occurred in the finals, unfortunately. The PT coach even pulled the book out in the finals on a call that I thought was clearly incorrect. I knew exactly where he was going in the book because there is a picture of the rule. There were multiple examples of pictured rules being called incorrectly. Then we have examples of refs deciding the match.  A stalling call in the last 10 seconds of a state championship match? I know its not the first time, but come on! It would have been decided in OT. I also saw examples of an assistant official talking the other official into changing his call and the same person, who was not even officiating a particular match, trying to signal to an official to wave off a takedown. That's just unacceptable. We don't have a lot of officials so maybe this just what we have to work with.

    Overall, it was a fun weekend with some good wrestling and a NEW team champion. The 7 year streak of Union County is over. Will PT stay on top?

     

  11. Posted · Report reply

    35 minutes ago, matreturn said:

    Been around the sport in KY a while…long enough to remember the Horse Park venue. When my kid qualified for state and I walked into that building I was legit overwhelmed. It was like nothing I had ever seen before and the experience of the whole thing from the tournament of champions to the simultaneous matches, the fan all cheering on their wrestlers, the face off/podium at the end…it was amazing. It was what the cream of the crop should have when then achieve that level of competition. Anything else is quite frankly a disservice to the participants, the high school programs and KHSAA, because in the end  anything less makes KHSAA look bad whether they want to believe that or not.

    Every year we have this discussion and there seems to be an impenetrable gap between KY Wrestling and KHSAA and what ever conversations have taken place between the two have yielded little progress on a solution.  
    Just a question: is media attention to this issue an option or would it make things worse?

    If you thought the Horse Park was awesome, I wish you could have seen then tournament in Frankfort.

    • Upvote 3

  12. Posted · Report reply

    25 minutes ago, grappler-of-old said:

    Not sure about the problem with a 2 day state.  If you want the parade of champions a face off and an awards ceremony, you would need 2 days. 

    Even back in ancient times when I wrestled and the state tourney was at Atherton with a 16 man bracket it was 2 days.  No one complained.  

    I don't like the 16 man state tourney at a high school.  All this changed with COVID and the expiration of the contract with the Horse Park. 

    Semi-State is the real joke.  We either need to return to District, Region, State (16 man bracket) or Region and state (32 man bracket).  

    I'm not sure how long you have been around, but the state tourney use to be at the Horse Park with a 32 man bracket.  The real complaint then was the Horse Park itself.  Finding a venue seems to be the biggest problem.  

    I agree. It needs to go back to District, Region, State (16 man bracket) or Region and State (32 man bracket).  

    The issues we have with the post season setup are simply due to the KHSAA's lack of care and/or effort.

    • Upvote 1

  13. Posted · Report reply

    In 1999, John Dials of Sheldon Clark placed 5th in his region (old Region 4). He ended up wrestling in the state tournament as an alternate and upset, as I recall, the #1 wrestler in the state in the first round with a pin via a standing cradle (opponent may not have been #1, but he was a 1 seed). He would end up wrestling that same wrestler in the consolation semifinals and proceeded to get teched. He would go on to place 5th. Dials became a state champion two years later.

    • Upvote 2

  14. Posted · Report reply

    Nothing beat the State Duals hosted by Henry Clay when it was just one division. I think multiple divisions will help the sport grow, but it is definitely watered down. At what point do we stop further dividing into more classes? Not just talking about duals, but individual championships as well. Virginia once had a super competitive 3 class set up. Now there are six classes and there are wrestlers winning state championships that just aren't that good. I really hope we stay with one class for the individual state championships. 

  19. Posted · Report reply

    1 minute ago, WhiteTiger95 said:

    I would also like to add some honorable mentions: lampe brothers, JJ Jude, Bobby Bryant , Zane brown

     

    knable is one of the few who should be on both top 10 coaches/wrestlers 

    Jude may have "only" been a 2x champ, but he made the semifinals the 3 previous seasons as an 8th (130), 9th (145), and 10th (160) grader, placing 4th, 3rd, 3rd, before winning two titles. 

  20. Posted · Report reply

    90s- The Merritts, Bruce Stepp, Tendai Cherasika, Joe Carr, Ian Horn

    2000s- Kyle Ruschell, Jacob Murton, Taylor Sherer, Isaac Knable, John Fahy

    2010s- Austin Myers, Brock Ervin, Mark Hall, David Carr

    I'm sure I left some great ones off, but these guys came to mind quickly.