Takedown Machine152

I, unfortunately, have not been able to attend many events around the state this year due to some personal engagements, but I was able to watch the State duals last weekend at Henry Clay. First, I was impressed by the level of competition in most weight-classes and, in general, the parity between many of the schools. I'm proud to say that not only has the talent spread from its typical epicenters, but our talent has also increased as a whole. For the first time since I have been involved with wrestling in Kentucky I can say that we could possibly see 20 or more teams represented in the finals at the State Tournament. That being said, I have a few concerns regarding this great sport and its future in our state. First, I was disappoointed by the referrees at the state duals. I didn't recognize any of them and none of them seemed to be on top of match control. Why does it seem like stalemates and stalling calls come 20-30 seconds too late? To answer my own question, it's because THEY DO!! Our refs should be enforcing action, not watching two wrestlers relax, or let them hold in stalemate for half of a period. It's ludicrous that these calls are missed so frequently. Our wrestlers would benefit from more of these calls. All of a sudden top work wouldn't be a break to catch one's breath. I saw way too many costly blown calls in key matches during the duals. And beyond that, in the final between Union Co. and Larue Co., at least once the two refs conferenced to correct a call and took more than one minute to make a ruling. That is unacceptable. Those wrestlers should've been back at it way sooner. And if those refs were just inexperienced, then I ask why in the world would they be reffing a state championship? That is not the correct venue to be practicing being a referee. I feel refs should be required to have a certain amount of experience before they are qualified to participate in such events. And something HAS to be done about the lack of stalling calls and stalemates. Wrestling is an action sport. My next suggestion would be to seed the State Tournament. I know it's been discussed before and that many feel it's more of a pain than anything else, or that it would be unfair to unseeded wrestlers, but let's be real for a moment. Despite anyone's personal feelings, we all know which wrestlers are best at their respective weight-classes. I think the top eight wrestlers from each weight could be seeded appropriately. Eight seeded wrestlers, and the rest are drawn randomly. This would allow for more top match-ups in the semis and finals rather than seeing #1 vs. #2 in the quarterfinals. It may sound elitist but face it, wrestling is an elitist sport. Only one wrestler gets his hand raised after the match. Thoughts?

I love the State Wrestling Tournament. I love watching young competitors put it all on the line to achieve more than anyone expects, to lift up their respective teams, to prove something either to themselves or to others. Wrestling exemplifies hard work, sacrifice, commitment, and tenacity. The KHSAA has apparently committed to dishonoring all of these virtues. The format for the finals was ghastly. It took twice as long as it should have (the opposite of what was intended), the highlight wasn't on the finalists, the medal ceremony for each weight occurred moments after one of the soon-to-be podium dwellers lost his final match of the season. There was no time for athletes to collect themselves before being called to stand in front of the entire crowd. Champions had no time to hug their parents or savor the spotlight. This structure was the ANTITHESIS of what a STATE CHAMPIONSHIP should be. Now, with that said, Dallas Ochsenbein's duck under in the finals made all the KHSAA bull crap worth it. I want to relive that moment over and over again.

Austin Myers getting dinged for stalling in the finals was a bit of an upset... Just saying.

Don't forget Kyle Lawson and Mark Hall. David Carr is an outstanding wrestler, but he's no Mark Hall. That said, Zane Brown is a remarkable young talent and I'm excited to see his career develop.

You have entirely the wrong point of view on this. The state wrestling tournament is not about the spectators, or the coaches, or the parents, or about some guy who's not afraid to drive 2+ hours through snowstorms. It's about every competitor who's put his body through Hell for an entire season having the chance to perform in the state tournament. It's not about the "key players", IT'S ABOUT EVERY WRESTLER. The postponement was necessary to insure that every kid has the chance to compete, not just the "key players". Is this situation ideal? No, but waiting is better than the KHSAA telling dozens of kids "Sorry about your luck, but you just won't get to wrestle in the state tournament this year because you're living in a town that was buried by record setting snowfall. We appreciate the hard work and dedication you've put forth for the last several months/years, but you'll just have to come back next season and cross your fingers that we experience a mild winter. Oh, you're a SENIOR, you say? Well... good luck with the rest of your life." I think I've made my point.

Trae will have a great career, no doubt. It doesn't matter that the Big 12 tournament is only a 4 man bracket. What matters is that Trae and several other KY preps are representing our great state at the highest level of competition in collegiate wrestling. Trae works his butt off just like everyone else and it's great that he is instantly getting good results. Being competitive as a true freshman at any sport is a difficult task, but it is the toughest with wrestling. I'm proud to have watched him and excited to see him on the podium at the NCAAs in a year or two. Congratulations Trae.

My heart wants him to end up at either Penn State, or Ohio State. PSU because he's the perfect size to benefit from Cael Sanderson's style, and tOSU because I'd love to be able to drive up on a whim and watch him. My brain, however, tells me he'll be a Gopher or a Cowboy. No matter where he decides to go, I'm excited to see him develop.

14. Sheffer 120 Union Co. 13. Myers 220 Campbell Co. 12. Ervin 106 Union Co. 11. Erdman 126 Ryle 10. Meiman 160 Ryle 9. Heidorf 145 Trinity 8. Johnson 285 Dixie Heights 7. Miller 195 Simon Kenton 6. Frankrone 182 Trinity 5. Hurst 113 Woodford Co. 4. Barton 152 Trinity 3. McIntosh 170 Oldham Co. 2. Bindner 132 Fern Creek 1. Vazquez 138 Lafayette Team- Trinity 202.5 points Dark Horse- Elias Eqal Tates Creek

I think it's time for the wrestling community in Kentucky to put this conjecture to rest. Seeding is just not going to happen. While I believe seeding to be a good thing and support the idea, I understand that the khsaa is not going to allow it any time soon. There will be casinos on Kentucky soil before there is seeding at the state tournament. There will be peace in the Middle East before there is seeding at state.

Bad weather will potentially be the biggest upset at date this year. It's unfortunate that so many counties are facing massive amounts of snow. This will undoubtedly hinder practices all week and could even prevent some schools from traveling. I'm crossing my fingers that this doesn't end up being true. These kids deserve the opportunity to showcase their hard work.

I cannot confirm this, nor do I wish to incite the rumor wagon but I have heard talk that Landon was injured in a non-wrestling related accident. Again, if this is incorrect, then I was misinformed.

106- Saul Ervin over Adam Bender 113-Tucker Hurst over Jorge Vega 120-Bryce Sheffer over Zane Brown 126-Logan Erdman over Bobby Poynter 132-Keegan Duncan over AJ Bindner 138-Angel Vazquez over Bryan Spahr 145-Hudson Heidorf over Tony Ashford 152-Ben Barton over Jon Belk 160-Johnny Meiman over Nathan Haddad 170-Alex McIntosh over Eli Sowder 182-Tyler Frankrone over Elisiah Matthews 195-Elijah Miller over Kohl Dodd 220-Austin Myers over Zach Farris 285-Brandon Johnson over Luke Shaffer (heard Landon Young is out with injury, though not confirmed. He's my #1 if healthy)

On the top half, I think most or all of us expect to see Ervin vs. Tucker in the semis. I wouldn't be surprised to see Cagen Wallace from Wayne Co. make it to the quarterfinal against Tucker and keep it close. Also, Brandon Miller got the short end of the stick, but he's a very technical wrestler and I believe he'll make a good run through the wrestle-backs and finish on the podium. As for the bottom half, Adam Bender has a fairly clear path to the semis, likely facing Klein or Yenter. I won't be surprised at all to see Bender in the finals. 106 is a balanced weight this year, and I'm excited to see it unfold.

Okay, while most of you are opting for a more diplomatic expression of opinions concerning referees, the venue, the KHSAA, and so on, I am going to be genuine even if it's crass. The referees in Kentucky are mediocre at best. Period. We have had this discussion for eons, and to this day, the only thing that is consistent about the officiating at the state tournament is that the referees are inevitably out of position for VERY IMPORTANT calls. I mean, look at the final seconds of the second period in the Carr/Blackwell final. 6-4 Carr on the scoreboard and Trae catches David on his back with four or five seconds left for the easiest two-count in the history of wrestling, yet zero points were awarded. The score should have been 6-6 to start the third, and if anyone disagrees then you weren't watching the match. That is just one example of the monumental mistakes these referees make. We should expect the same level of excellence from the officials as we do from our wrestlers. I'm on board for having refs from Ohio or Indiana brought in for state. I'm done humoring excuses for Kentucky referees. I like the Alltech Arena in some regards, but it's not accomplishing what we want. I miss the dungeon in Frankfort. Yes, Alltech holds more people, but it isn't selling out and the acoustics are bad. There is a big difference as a wrestler in hearing crickets chirping because no one is there, and feeling the thunderous roar of a sold out crowd in your feet as you step on the mat. I had the opportunity to watch a live stream of the Indiana state finals while our finals were underway. Indiana gets it! They absolutely do it right. Each wrestler is spotlighted and recognized for his accomplishments for his season and career(i.e being a 5 time state champion, being nationally ranked, being a national champ or an Ironman finalist-yeah nicely done Kentucky, good job recognizing the greatest core of talent this state has ever witnessed on the mat... JOKE), the Indiana Pacers arena is standing room only with huge roars and chants from the seats, loud booming music, and so on. It's a spectacle boarding on theatrical, but those kids, no, those young men deserve all of that attention. We need a better stage for the state tournament. And now for the KHSAA. I won't comment on whether or not these people have any experience with wrestling because, well, I don't know any of them. But I will say that if any of them do have experience with wrestling, then shame on them for attempting to overhaul a tournament schedule that has been working for years. And if they don't know a thing about our sport, then they shouldn't impose their misguided judgement on a system that has been seamlessly executed since the Stone Age. And if the KHSAA is considering adjustments, then they should consult individuals who understand our sport and could give useful feedback before they just start wrecking our weekend. I love Kentucky wrestling and am proud to see how far we've come, but these competitors deserve better, the fans deserve better and until we make a concerted effort to enhance the product offered to those two groups, we will be a class below Indiana and Ohio and Pennsylvania.

Thanks for the reply. I agree that ATM will be successful regardless of his weight, just was curious about his thought process and the direction he is interested in taking after high school.

I've heard rumors that all place matches (1st place-7th place) will be wrestled at the same time. That means that finals will not have it's own special celebration. If this is true, then my heart is breaking for the sport in Kentucky. Advancing to the state finals is an outstanding accomplishment and it should be honored properly. If the KHSAA is seriously considering this change, then coaches and fans alike should petition to overrule this terrible idea. Can anyone confirm or deny this rumor?

Just saw it. Thanks

I've heard rumors that all place matches (1st place-7th place) will be wrestled at the same time. That means that finals will not have it's own special celebration. If this is true, then my heart is breaking for the sport in Kentucky. Advancing to the state finals is an outstanding accomplishment and it should be honored properly. If the KHSAA is seriously considering this change, then coaches and fans alike should petition to overrule this terrible idea. Can anyone confirm or deny this rumor?

Let's not forget that Young is only a Sophomore. Sure, he isn't pinning everybody, but he also is never really at risk of losing. Until someone backs Landon into a corner, I say it's his weight to lose.

@Tarzan I do have a serious question for you. All things considered, do you see Austin ever making the cut down to 195? Right now he is unstoppable in Kentucky and among the very best in the country, no doubt. But is he going to be a heavy weight in college? He's incredibly athletic and I believe he could compete well at 197. Of course, if it will be detrimental to his strength or overall health then perhaps he should just be a small-ish heavy. I'm just curious because I can picture ATM making some noise at 195 as a senior and then being a big 197 for a tough college program.

Regional tournaments would still factor into the seeding. I like to consider the way the NCAA goes about seeding the national championship for wrestling. Look at the Big 12 championship at 174 lbs. The finals there will almost certainly be Andrew Howe vs. Chris Perry. They are ranked #1 and #2 respectively in their weight class. If Chris Perry wins the Big 12 final over Howe, Perry will earn the #1 seed at nationals for sure, but Andrew Howe will not suddenly become an unseeded wrestler. He will get the #2 seed for nationals. My point is that regionals should still matter, but should only be one piece of the puzzle in regard to putting together the most fair and accurate brackets for our state tournament. And as far as out of state competition goes, it is one of the most valuable things a team or individuals can experience. It should not be limited and, frankly, it often helps qualify an individuals skill level much more definitively than in state competition. The teams that get to wrestle in Ohio and Indiana get to face higher levels of competition. Let's face it, collectively those two states foster huge amounts of talent in this sport; more talent overall than Kentucky. I don't say that to be insulting, I say it because Kentucky is improving very rapidly and that is in part thanks to Ohio and Indiana. Getting back to my point, we can factor wins and losses versus outside competition into seeding. For instance, If Brock Ervin and Sean Fausz both wrestled 132 for regionals and won their region, we could then use their overall records along with results from major tournaments and results against nationally recognized opponents to determine which of them deserved the #1 seed at state. In this case, Brock was runner up at Iron Man and has huge results against other nationally ranked opponents. Sean, who is an extremely talented wrestler, just hasn't had the same success as Brock, so Brock would easily earn the #1 seed. That's just one example that we won't encounter this year, but you get my point. The problem I have with seeding regional champs is that some weight classes in some regions are much weaker than others. It's not fair to have 3 guys from one region all ranked in the top 5, while another region may only have one ranked wrestler in that class and that guy may be ranked #17 or so. Does that really seem fair? To me it doesn't. To me that is punishing 2 of those top 5 guys because they are in a tough region, when they clearly are among the strongest wrestlers in that weight class. It seems like only seeding regional champs is robbing Peter to pay Paul. This is also why I believe a committee of non-coaches should be delegated for this. They would use a specific metric to determine accurate seeding. And the job would be taken very seriously. Just look at how well Ranger does with his rankings. There are a couple disagreements here and there, but the consensus is that he does a fantastic job. So we know which wrestlers are at the highest level around the state. It isn't meant to be an insult to a kid who wins a weak region. That kid works hard too, but he isn't suddenly an All-State caliper wrestler because of it. I think the solution to this problem would be extending the number of seeds per weight class. For instance, every regional champion is guaranteed a seed, but that weight class may have 10 or 12 seeded wrestlers while another may have 9 seeds, and another may have 8. Let's say at 126 region 6 has 3 guys who would deserve a seed at state and every other region has one guy who deserves a seed at state. Now we would have 8 regional champs earn a seed plus 2 non region champs for a total of 10 seeds as determined by a committee. 1 or 2 of those regional champs may may be seeded lower than the non regional champs per criteria, but all would be guaranteed a seed. Thoughts? No system is perfect, but we could certainly improve upon the current mode.

I think it is within reason to seed the top 8-10 wrestlers for each weight in state tournament irrespective of regional performance. Let's be real, we have a group of individuals who build very accurate rankings year in and year out. Now, clearly we would need to assign this responsibility to a committee of non-coaches. This would alleviate endless squabbling over trivial differences in records and so on. But I genuinely believe every year, we could comprise brackets that reflect the patterns of a given season. And so what if this practice translated into other sports? I also played baseball at a Lexington high school, so I'm familiar with the unfair postseason format. Baseball in Lexington has produced 5 of the last 10 state champions and Woodford County won in 2012 (Woodford is in the same region). It is also common to see five or six Lexington teams ranked in the top 10-15 all season, yet only one of these powerful programs each season will advance beyond regionals. in my opinion that renders all of our ranking systems useless. They mean nothing if they aren't used to fairly assign seeds for postseason competition. Let's bring it back to wrestling. There are a few instances where the top two wrestlers for a given weight class are from schools in the same region. Well one of them has to lose the regional final. Does that mean that wrestler is no longer the best or second best wrestler for that class? ABSOLUTELY NOT. Or even worse, The #2 at 145 wins his regional and the #1 at 145 has a bad day and places 2nd in a different regional. Now there is a non zero possibility that the two best from a weight class meet in the 2nd round of state. Is that a good thing? NO!!! Is that #1 at 145 suddenly a lesser athlete because he had a bad showing for one match? ABSOLUTELY NOT. And that should be reflected in the state tournament. Let's give some practical meaning to the rankings. After all, several people spend a lot of time trying to get them right. They do an excellent job by the way. I believe I understand one of the big reasons seeding doesn't happen here. It has to do with fairness. But the KHSAA tends to focus on only one side of the fairness coin. And that's the side that feels seeding individuals can be demoralizing and can damage the psyches of our athletes. The other side (the one the KHSAA conveniently ignores) is two-fold. As an athlete, my goal was to win. Period. If I knew another wrestler was supposed to be better than me, it made me work even harder. Nothing feels better than beating a guy you're not supposed to beat. That is true in every sport. It's universal. The other point I would make in support of seeding these events is that it is equally unfair to intentionally or unintentionally punish two or more elite level competitors by (potentially) having them draw each other in the early rounds of a state tournament. Let's say #1 and #2 meet in the quarterfinals for whatever weight class. One of them will have to fight through consolations to at best finish 3rd when, on paper he is deserving of 1st or 2nd place. That isn't fair to the most talented competitors. If those wrestlers were seeded 1 and 2 and one of them lost before then finals, then so be it. But the top performers should be rewarded for their achievements during the regular season. Seeding is in fact the most fair way to organize a state championship. And that goes for all sports.

FloWrestling updated their high school rankings within the last 48 hours. Nathan Boston is now ranked No.1 at 120 lbs. Congrats to him for working hard to be(at) the best in the country. The match was great too. Lots of hand fighting and a few great scrambles. Sean Russell is a helluva wrestler. I hope to see these two square up again soon.

Does anybody know of Kentucky wrestlers who are competing in the Super 32 or Iron Man this fall? Maybe the Beast of the East? With the growing talent around the state, it would be awesome to have some representation in these monster tournaments. I would think that Brock Ervin, Trae Blackwell, Nathan Boston, ATM, and Sean Fausz could all turn some heads in these venues. Any info is appreciated.

I had to deal with a ref not too long ago who, in his defense, was not very experienced. Nonetheless, I got ejected for this one. In the first period of a match, my kid hits an underhook pass into a merkle, taking his opponent to the mat and working on top. The ref, all the while, has potentially dangerous signaled but doesn't stop the action. He lets my kid work on top for over a minute until his opponent's back was exposed, then he blows his whistle. He awards my wrestler zero points, saying that his takedown was illegal, thus making the nearfall impossible... I call him over to discuss it and he insists that he had never seen a merkle before so it must be illegal and, get this, that I as a coach shouldn't teach my wrestlers to cheat! I lost it. I had heard the expression "seeing red", but until that moment I didn't think it was literal. The good news is that my wrestler hit a double leg off the next whistle and leg-turked for a pin.