Ranger123

Moderators
 View Profile  See their activity

  • Content count

    4,455

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    19

Posts posted by Ranger123

  1. Posted · Report reply

    3 minutes ago, ukpridewrestler11 said:

    Stephen Little. Runner up as a freshman to Zane Brown @ 160lbs. 2x state champ going for his third. Won many USAW preseason nationals so far out in Iowa (if I remember correctly). Ironman Placer (5th) losing two different overtime matches to top 10 nationally ranked guys. Beat Indiana state champ who is nationally ranked this year, where the Mater Dei kid pinned his way thru a state title. His resume is stout. 

    I'll take that Ironman run over all the USAW preseason titles.  Little showed he was right there and good enough to win that tournament.

  2. Posted · Report reply

    58 minutes ago, MLee said:

    Robbie Clarkston- 4x state champ + a runner-up as an 8th grader.

    I need to hear some Paul Bunyan stories about Clarkston.  Given what he accomplished I have heard virtually nothing about him.  Where are the old time Conner guys to tell us some stories about a little 8th grader competing in that room that had plenty of hammers?

  3. Posted · Report reply

    GOO your points are 100% valid and I agree.  That's why this should be purely a nice discussion of the great accomplishments and abilities of the best of the best and not some authoritative list.  Way too many nuances and difficulties in comparing across time with varying levels of opportunity and different criteria that we all use to judge this type of thing.

    With that a few old school names that would make my list regardless of my earlier "national success" criteria:

    Jarrod Trice - never saw him wrestle, but if half of the folk lore type stories I heard about this guy are correct he might be the best ever at his peak.  As GOO mentioned he didn't have a full career, but I heard that even after his serious injury in HS, he got back on the mat and was still the baddest dude in the gym

    Willie Ennels - imagine high school version of Ed Ruth who was virtually unstoppable when he decided he wanted to score

    Jon Wiard - I may be the only person with this guy on the list, but he is like a unicorn that is frozen in my memory from my days on the mat.  Wiard was a long, skinny kid who walked on the mat in that baggy Frankfort singlet looking like he accidentally wandered into the gym from an academic team contest.  But once the whistle blew he was so tough with that deadly cradle 

  4. Posted · Report reply

    I think this is one we just have to learn from.  It is my understanding that the KHSAA basically put semi-state on the calendar as a two day event.  Most coaches to my knowledge pushed to have it in a single day to minimize travel and expense and probably a number of other issues.  Also remember the coaches made this current semi-state format recommendation to the KHSAA (and I thought it was a huge improvement over last year) and to their credit they listened to the feedback and implemented it.  So while it sounds like both UC and GC did a great job running the events, there are some changes that need to be made to make it more fan friendly and probably a better experience for the competitors.  Under this format there will be no awards as the KHSAA views it as the first "round" of the state event.  I agree that is a bit confusing for us wrestling folks, but it might be something we just have to get used to, at least until we have a better format in place.  On the venues, from what I recall not many folks were beating the KHSAA doors down to host these events.  The host likely didn't make anything when all was said and done.  Simply just had the headaches and backaches of running a long wrestling tournament.

    When all is said and done, we are finishing up a full wrestling season that will include a great state event this weekend.  If we go into the weekend whining and complaining before we get to GRC, we will likely find plenty more to complain about.  Let's enjoy the last week of the season and if you are so inclined share your constructive thoughts AND IDEAS with coaches and administrators that can hopefully affect some change.  I was at Great Crossing, hopefully doing more good than harm helping jnv, and had a great conversation with our new KHSAA wrestling leader.  He wants to understand our sport better and make positive change where it makes sense. 

     

  5. Posted · Report reply

    I haven't been able to say this in the past, but I am hopeful we can make some positive change going forward for wrestling in Ky.  It is true we are locked in somewhat to the current format for the next couple years.  But if we have the right leadership involved from the coaches and administrators, I think some good things can happen for boys and girls in the years to come.

  6. Posted · Report reply

    GOO, I understand not liking these sort of debates when people get too emotional and heated about them.  But hopefully everyone keeps this discussion more positive.

    I am only focusing on HS years here.  This makes it really hard to compare the old school names, but I also tend to look more at national level competition to determine who I thought were the best guys.  Winning state titles is awesome, but quite often it is way tougher to bring home hardware from Fargo, Super32, or NHSCA than it is to win a state championship.

    I have experienced it first hand with my boys trying to compete on the national level and I sort of use their careers as a frame of reference.  Super32 medals are rare in Ky.  Only a few Ky boys have brought one home from NC and Spencer has 2 along with the UWW Cadet National title and World Team.  But he never got the chance to go to Fargo and failed to medal in his only trip to Va Beach.  Ryan medaled 4 times at NHSCAs, once at Fargo, once at UWW Cadets, and twice at Flo.  Couldn't get that Super32 medal though.  All that said I don't know that either is top 10.  I would like to think they are in the conversation, but there have been some really good kids come through the state.

    2 that I think set themselves apart from the crowd were:

    Nathan Boston - only Steven Micic kept him from being a 4 time state champ, but the thing that stands out for Nathan is the fact that he was #1 in the country.  Not the best in the state, but the best in the country.  Moving to Ky likely kept him from maintaining that spot throughout his HS career as we got absolutely no credit back then.  But he was in the conversation as one of the best at his weight throughout his HS career.

    Austin Myers - to me his 4 year run in HS was the best I have seen hands down.  He mowed down the competition.  I don't think Chris would disagree with me that no one in Ky has ever stacked up the awards from those big national events like ATM.  I still remember sitting in the corner coaching him on the big stage in the finals at FloNationals when I thought he killed a kid almost driving him through the stage with a monstrous double leg at 215 pounds.  He was an animal from day 1. 

  7. Posted · Report reply

    1 minute ago, WrasslinCoach said:

    Ranger thank you for doing these. It's something that kids and parents look forward to all year. 

    I know it's beyond dual season, but I have always been curious. What's the algorithm for Duals rankings?

    It is a simplified process based on the individual rankings.  #1 v #2 would give the #1 team 3 points for the decision.  If there is a larger difference in the rankings, say #1 v #9 then it's a major, or #1 v #20 it's a tech or pin.  

  8. Posted · Report reply

    Final ranking of the 2021-22 season.  After some exciting action at the two semistate locations there were a number of shake-ups in the rankings including a couple of new #1s.  By taking the top 8 from each half of the state it looks like the final round state brackets will be as competitive as we have ever seen with great matches at every weight class in round 1.

    This final ranking reflects the results from the semistate matches.  I was a little inconsistent in dealing with scratches and injuries, but there were so many that it was difficult to figure out who to remove and how to interpret some default results.  Either way, this is where things stand as we head into the final state event.

    In the next few days, I will produce the Ranger report that uses the rankings to predict state placement and team finish.

    Stay healthy this week and good luck to all this weekend! 

    Rankings_21_22_0222.pdf

  10. Posted · Report reply

    While I appreciate the work and effort required to get a program up and headed in the right direction (especially in region 1 or 5), I have to clear up a misconception.  My primary "job" with this is not to promote.  First and foremost my goal is to be as accurate as possible.  Rankings are just that, rankings on paper (or a forum).  Doesn't mean much once the kids step on the mat.  Promotion has to come from the programs and coaches and fans.  As soon as I rank a particular kid or team just to help promote them then it absolutely means nothing.  And trust me, I've had plenty of coaches and fans over the years ask to put a kid or team in a spot to help them make a case with an AD or admin for their program.  With that said, I am not leaving Henderson County off the list, it is simply that based on state scoring by the individual kids at this point they are lower than the teams listed.  Could it work out differently?  Absolutely.  I wouldn't at all bet against Henderson County punching a kid or two through this week and making it to the final round state event.  And that's how you build up that ranking criteria. 

    Which leads to the specific rankings in question.  Yes, McNeeley and Wilson had some wins that shot them up the rankings.  But they have been up and down as well.  So when an unranked kid beats them it often reflects more negatively on the highly ranked kid than it reflects positively on the unranked kid.  UNTIL that kid adds more ranked wins to his resume to validate those wins.  If some random kid comes out and headlocks Stephen Little and pins him, in no way does that mean that kid should be ranked over him.  Little is probably pound for pound the best kid in the state and the rankings are about a lot more than that 1 match.  An important thing that UKpride references is that it is very hard to gauge some of the kids on the extreme ends of the state who have minimal matches against wrestlers from across the state.  Most of the in state matches are against a few teams.  Getting that semi-state (and state) exposure will help a ton in future ranking situations.

    For reference, if I spend exactly 1 minute (only 60 seconds) looking at track results for each of the 30 kids at 14 weight classes, that is 7 hrs each week.  That doesn't include the time to navigate between wrestlers and actually update my spreadsheet to reflect the results.  Nor does it include time spent to evaluate the 5-10 kids beyond the top 30 who I keep on the radar.  Not to mention trying to figure out how to handle the numerous kids in that 15-25 range who have conflicting results.  Just saying, these names and the order are not flying by the seat of my pants or just for the fun of it.

  11. Posted · Report reply

    7 minutes ago, digitalagedad said:

    Ranger,

    just wanted to say thank you for the rankings this year. My son made semi state but strained a rib muscle doing so and will not being wrestling this weekend. We looked forward to your insight each week and just wish you to know that we greatly appreciate your time and effort to take this on!!!!

    Hate to hear that.  A lot of time and effort goes into achieving those goals. Hopefully he wasn't a senior and will get another shot to make a run at state next season.

  14. Posted · Report reply

    2 minutes ago, uncleruckus said:

    With all due respect. Henderson put up 99 points in region 1, with a champ, 2 fourth place finishers and an alternate. They are not even on the team rankings from what I can see. 

    Maybe you have a rationale. I won't pretend to know your formula.

    Jj has beaten daviess County 3 times, Paducah twice, lost once to Newbie, (no excuses) newbie was ranked. 

    But rankings are silly, they are fun to talk about. Let's let wrestling talk for itself. That's how you build a culture. 

    Wrestling is about growing. During the season, if my boys lose to some guys and get better....thats awesome....I care about seedings, placement, and advancement and I'll argue those, if need be. If ranger123 doesn't think any Henderson wrestlers have even a chance at a fraction of a point at the state meet, that's his prerogative, its his page....

    The only thing I use this page for is to listen to chatter and see if a kid is decent before a match.

    Honestly, I'm ready to wrestle saturday....Saturday.... back to the grind

     

    Therein lies the problem.  The results are hit and miss getting posted.  So many never show up or hit the system just before region when they are "required".  For the record based on the results I have looked at today, the Daviess kid is way too high.  But like you said, it is all decided on the mat. 

    Team scores are 100% based on individual rankings.  As much as people want to believe I have some extreme bias again teams with the HCHS abbreviation, I don't even touch that.  It is a simple calculation.

  20. Posted · Report reply

    I would say the more I look at it neither Wallace or Powers have a lot to be ranked on.  Thanks for pointing that out, I may leave them both off this week.  And since a few of you western ky folks like rankwrestlers, they have Powers ahead of Wallace at this point.  Hmmm.

    As for Poynter he has exactly 0 (that's zero) matches listed at 157 on track.  And while he had a great weekend, let's not forget his losses (a couple to unranked guys).  Those matches don't disappear from the record.  I will say he now has a couple wins over those guys mentioned and I should reevaluate that group of guys.

  21. Posted · Report reply

    Exciting week of regional action.  Next up the new and improved semi-state.  Well somewhat improved.  If only they seeded the brackets appropriately.  

     

    We will see how this week plays out, but I have Union building a slight gap on Ryle and Johnson Central.  But SS1 is a little deeper, so maybe things level out heading into the final weekend.  On the other hand Ryle and JC will be going head to head in SS2 so who knows how this will play out.  We'll all know in a few short days.

    Hopefully everyone is able to show respect for their competitors and fans this week.  But I won't hold my breath.

    Rankings_21_22_0216.pdf

  23. Posted · Report reply

    12 minutes ago, grappler-of-old said:

    The only difference it that it was a post season event unlike the Bengals. 

    Plus your talking to one of those weird people who does not watch NFL so I don't know the criteria for seeding in NFL

    True.  But that win at region just made the head to head a wash.  Other criteria put Savage as the 1.  

     

    I actually don't have time to watch much football either.  But they have their criteria and it is what it is.  Once everyone knows that you live by it.

  24. Posted · Report reply

    AH.  I would exactly equate the Savage-Brooksbank saga to the Bengals.  Cincinnati beat the Chiefs late in the season.  But seeding is based on the entire body of work which favored KC and Savage last year.  In the end, Brooksbank and Cincy showed they were better when it mattered.  Nothing wrong with that.  Just the way it goes sometimes.

    I'm not totally opposed to just seeding the champs.  I was the MS president when we implemented that process for MS.  It works well.  But MS has much much less head to head results or even common opponents along with just less reliable result tracking.  While I'm sure a lot of folks don't like wrestling regional opponents early at state, I am more concerned with a state champ carrying a weak region to advantaged matchups rather than what a kid has earned by their own results.

  25. Posted · Report reply

    18 minutes ago, chad.greenwell said:

    I just like the data and true percentages you can see on RankWrestlers. Track seems to blindly look at records and factor that too high in seeding. We've all been in a seeding meeting where it goes like this:

    Why do you have the 2 seed? What's your record?

    12-0

    How many are forfeits?

    9...

    Lol.

    Agree with that.  But as long as the criteria is appropriately set (record is last resort) then it will work out pretty well.