Attention All Cougars

[NKYWrestler 1]

Outstanding job team.  Everyone represented our club very well.  We took 49 wrestlers / 37 placed top 4!!! We won State with 380 team points. (Corrected Result as of 3/9/9) Here are the individual stats:

STATE CHAMPS

KYLE WOLNITZEK

DEREK WILEY

MICHEAL GRANDSTAFF

TRISTIN BADIDA

CHRIS LYNN

DYLAN GREEN

GARRETT COMPTON

COLTYN KEAIRNS

TREVOR THOMPSON

TRUMAN BELCHER

HUNTER SPROLES

SAM GRANDSTAFF

ISHAM PEACE

GAGE BREEDEN

CODY BRENNER

JOHN SCHWEITZER

ADAM BRENNER

SAM CLEMENTS

CHRISTIAN WEBSTER

BLAKE LYNN

RUNNER UPS

ETHAN ISHMAEL

SHAMON MOORE

CHRIS HAMMONS

CHRISTIAN MOORE

JACOB GRANDSTAFF

THIRD PLACE

ANDY WILSON

BRANDON PADILLA

JACOB WARWICK

MASON BREEDEN

ANTHONY WITSCHEY

CLAYTON BOYD

CARSON STEWART

FOURTH PLACE

KYLE NEACE

JOSEPH WARWICK

PEYTON KNIPPENBERG

TYLER WALTON

Again, great job...

I am a very proud coach and appreciate your effort and achievement!!!

Coach Franklin

[Frank 0]

Congratulations Frank on an outstanding finish! You had more state champions than we had kids in the tournament!Lol! Congratulations to Trevor Thompson for your state title. You are a real class act and outstanding wrestler. You are the model for how a wrestler should conduct himself. I would like to personally wish you well at the Tournament of Champions and so would my son Andrew!

[kan499 0]

Way to go Cougars!!!  :-D

[Mike Honcho 1]

Great Job guys.  I am not from Conner, but give credit were it is due.

[StateChamp50 0]

Thank you, are cougars are very proud.

[Mike Honcho 1]

Just one question, how did you gain points?  I know some of the brackets were added incorrectly, but no one should of gained points.  Ryle should of lost points for Fren Creek adding the brackets wrong.  They were adding all the champions per say in the 65 pound bracket.  If Ryle won all three 65 pounders then they made the mistake of giving Ryle points for all three.  Ryle had 14 brackets in the first and 2nd sessions that had a over lap, meaning more than one wrestler in that bracket.  Conner had 2.  How did Conner gain 40 points?  Like I said, I understand how Ryle lost points, and I am not saying Conner didn't win on points.  The final scores were Conner 380 to Ryle 308.  How were points added?

[cougarpride 0]

Just one question, how did you gain points?  I know some of the brackets were added incorrectly, but no one should of gained points.  Ryle should of lost points for Fren Creek adding the brackets wrong.  They were adding all the champions per say in the 65 pound bracket.  If Ryle won all three 65 pounders then they made the mistake of giving Ryle points for all three.  Ryle had 14 brackets in the first and 2nd sessions that had a over lap, meaning more than one wrestler in that bracket.  Conner had 2.  How did Conner gain 40 points?  Like I said, I understand how Ryle lost points, and I am not saying Conner didn't win on points.  The final scores were Conner 380 to Ryle 308.  How were points added?

No one was provided those details from what we were told at our pep rally to celebrate the victory but a win is a win by any measure.  1 point or 100.  Contact the tournament diretor for that level detail.  Go Cougars!!!!  I am a proud Momma!!!!

[Mike Honcho 1]

It was just a question, I can't argue someone lacking common knowledge of the sport.  It is easy to dress up like raggedy ann, and scream go cougars, but have two controversies in two years makes you ask questions.  Good Job Cougars you wrestled well.

[chickenwingchamp 0]

It was just a question, I can't argue someone lacking common knowledge of the sport.  It is easy to dress up like raggedy ann, and scream go cougars, but have two controversies in two years makes you ask questions.  Good Job Cougars you wrestled well.

Who are you referring to as "lacking common knowledge of the sport"? As far as the "raggedy ann" comment, that kind of enthusiasm and parent involvement has made our program what it is. No one can argue with the results we have posted and the progress we have made, and we could not have done it without our excellent parents. The questions over the controversies should not be asked of us, we should not be expected to take a loss that we didn't earn.

[machine#1 0]

To all the cougars that showed up and poured their hearts all over the mats I am so proud of you. To all the parents who support them it is easy to see why they have such big hearts. 20 state champs wow! My little Machine was hurt,sick,and lacking practice time but proved to be a warrior. The kids love to wrestle hard for the coaches because the coaches love to teach them and are not afraid to show they care,best coaches for any child I've met yet. GO COUGARS!!!!!

[80sstat 0]

Ok....I just have to ask....Did you really take the trophy away from the Ryle kids.  Please tell me that you came up with another solution.  From what I understand Conner was awarded first place because of the way the tournament is scored, but the Ryle kids scored the most points.  I think a better solution for ALL of the kids involved would have been that both teams get awarded 1st place.  Not take a trophy away from a group of KIDS.  At the state tournament this past weekend, I was thrilled to see some life breathed into the Conner Program.  Your parents are obviously very enthusiastic about your program.  I remember the Conner teams of the 80's they where the team to beat.  The Cole brothers and Wayne Badida's son John, now he is a class act.  It looks like you could use a little of that class.  But, I guess your right a win is a win no matter at what cost.

"Congratulations Conner"

[On the Whistle 0]

Yes I was told that Conner did request to get the first place trophy from the Ryle Kids and I believe they took it back, which in my opinion, is ...well I won't go there. I know if the tables were turned, Stan Martin would not take the trophy back from those boys.

The scoring problem from Fern Creek isn't Ryle or Conner fault, but don't take a trophy from those young kids. If anything, be CO-STATE CHAMPS.

As far as the scoring goes...well hears how Conner gained points. They had several weight classes that were round-robins, which means they didn't have enough kids to wrestle a full bracket. These rdrobins had either 3 or just 4 kids in the bracket which meant they were guaranteed at least 8 points for just showing up, and if they came in 1st they received I think it was 12 or 16 points. Do the math 6 rdrobn brackets with wins, thats 72 points going to Conner. To fix this from happening in the future, get rid of the rdrobin brackets or combined brackets so you have at least 6 kids in a weight class. This would take care of that problem. Or next year, Ryle can locate a bunch of 4 and 5 yr olds that weigh around 30 to 40 lbs and then they'll have about 5 to 8 rdrobin brackets. Ideally I think, you shouldn't score team points from the 6 year olds to the 8 years old kids. They can still show up and wrestle, get a medal, but don't score their points. I would only score the 9 to 12 year old kids and out of these kids, I would establish set weight classes, example would be start the weights at maybe 60lbs and go to 130lbs and maybe there is only a total of 14 weights for this division 9 & 10 yrs and the same for the 11 & 12 yrs, so then your only keeping score of 26 to 30 weight classes and not 50 to 60 weight class brackets and no rdrobins. If you happen to have rdrobin brackets you don't count the team points. The kids can still get there medals but no points awarded to that team.

Just some food for thought. By the way I think Ryle and Conner have great programs, they have great wrestlers, it is sad that the final outcome of this very well ran and put together tournament, turned out the way it did.   

[paris 0]

80sstat,

Class huh??,,,,,,,,,why you must be bubbling over with it......coming on a topic that Conner's coach made to celebrate his wrestlers ...............wow you must have some type of class!!

[80sstat 0]

Why is the topic even on Kywrestling.com  Don't you communicate with your team via e-mail?  You have to know that Ryle kids get on this web-site.  I see no other time that you have communicated with your wrestling club through this web-site other than this topic.  I was asking the question to the Conner Club, this is your post.  Right? 

[paris 0]

Hey your funny 80sstat...I think I can muster enough class to offer you some tissues for your boo..hoo..ing!

[CCMOM 0]

IT IS WHAT IT IS!!!! CONGRATS COUGARS WERE VERY PROUD PARENTS!!!! ALOT OF HARD WORK PAYS OFF! LETS DO IT AGAIN NEXT YR! COACH FRANK & ALL OF OUR OTHER COACHES ARE AWESOME!! :-)

[NKYWrestler 1]

Why is the topic even on Kywrestling.com  Don't you communicate with your team via e-mail?  You have to know that Ryle kids get on this web-site.  I see no other time that you have communicated with your wrestling club through this web-site other than this topic.  I was asking the question to the Conner Club, this is your post.  Right? 

As far as this communication to my team, I think I made it pretty specific,"Attention Cougars".  For the record, I post the team result on the website each year.  Please add that to your stat on my post.  Thx

CLASS- Ryle and others were not intended to get in here and debate the issues being discussed.  The comments you and your group are making here show how much concern and "CLASS" you have for our kids.  This is their thread!   

Also for the record Ryle had round robins and there were many bracket situations favoring you guys.  We played by the same rules and Ryle has won a couple state championships under them. 

Your team did a great job, Congratulations Ryle, you can be very proud of your accomplishment and should be.  Please start a thread of yours to celebrate and bash me and my club and stay out off this one.  (If you really have CLASS you will)  I will not reply to any more issue here.  I have my own and will be addressing them in the next meeting I suggest you do so as well.  That is the proper forum.

This was the official communication given to me on the issue.  No sharing was proposed and yes I requested the 1st place trophy.  The score was not close and should have been awarded to Cougar Club.  Stan is President of the league so if something else should of occurred I am sure it would have.  He promoted the bylaws that regulate our league and the issues you are discussing now.  Please take it up with him:

Unfortunately during the calculation method of awarding team points the totals were not correct. The summary assembled on Saturday night took into account all bracket winners as scoring team points. Using this calculation Ryle had accumulated the most team points and state champions. However, the scoring guidelines require only 1 scorer/weight class/team and the scorer will be the highest placer of that weight class. We recalculated the team points which changed the placements as follows:

Finish School Total

1 Connor 380

2 Ryle 308

3 Fern Creek 232

4 South Oldham Elementary School 212

4 Wayne 212

6 River City 180

7 Campbell Cty 164

8 Trinity Elementary School 160

9 Montgomery Co 152

10 Johnson Central 136

11 McCreary County 128

12 LARUE 124

13 Simon Kenton 116

14 Bourbon CO 108

15 Franklin Co 100

15 Three River Wrestling Club 100

17 Bluegrass Stallions 92

18 Martin 92

19 North Oldham Elementary School 72

20 Newport 68

20 Oldham County Elementary School 68

22 Harrison 64

22 Madison Co 64

22 NO-OX 64

22 University Heights 64

26 MOORE 60

27 North Hardin 52

28 COBRA 48

29 Cooper 44

29 Woodford Co 44

31 Anderson Co 40

32 Perry Co 20

33 Cent Hardin 4

34 Kentucky Country Day 0

I apologize for the confusion and regret the mistake had occurred. I would STRONGLY suggest the scoring criteria be reviewed at the next meeting to make this process less cumbersome and equitable to all participants.

We will order another 4th place trophy that will be awarded to South Oldham.

Again, I apologize for this misunderstanding.

Thanks

Coach Greg Miller

[chickenwingchamp 0]

Yes I was told that Conner did request to get the first place trophy from the Ryle Kids and I believe they took it back, which in my opinion, is ...well I won't go there. I know if the tables were turned, Stan Martin would not take the trophy back from those boys.

Are you kidding me? Um... yes he would have, and no other alternative was given that I am aware of. I am floored that anyone would suggest that the cougars did something wrong in all this, no way would any other team give up  first place. Our kids earned it.

[nkywrestlingfanatic 0]

Are you kidding me? Um... yes he would have, and no other alternative was given that I am aware of. I am floored that anyone would suggest that the cougars did something wrong in all this, no way would any other team give up  first place. Our kids earned it.

You're right chickenwingchamp.  To me the real shame here is that Conner's kids got cheated out of their celebration Saturday night.  Instead of bashing on Conner's parents & coaches for asking for their WELL DESERVED trophy back, how about people start ripping on the coach & president of the league who has not been big enough to get on here and make a statement congratulating Conner and apologizing for the mix up?  Fern Creek's coaches have, why not the league president?  I'm sure there will be some ryle parents on here to defend Stan and say it was not at all his fault.  How about everyone just gives it a rest and we move on?

[FCWC1 0]

WOW, I visited this site for the first time ever this week to read some feedback on the tournament. Unfortunately I overlooked all the positive and picked up on few negative comments. Some of this is getting out of hand and I may have fell victim to it as well! All the schools wrestled well and for the most part displayed very good sportsmanship. Most of this negative comments must be coming from parents because I don't see coaches acting in this manner.

This is an excellent forum to voice opinions and suggestions to improve the sport. Some of these comments are down right childish.

Lets use this tool improve on what could be the start of something great.

[heavy83 15]

First and foremost congrats to all cougar wrestlers great job! The only other thing I have to say on this subect is there is no one person to blame for the miscalculation it was an honest mistake. Trying to keep up with so many brackets after a computer oops and 12 hrs is tough. GREAT JOB again to Fern Creek! So now see other thread and give good opinions on how we keep from happening again.  For as the cougers getting cheated out of their celebration party it is a shame but if I know you all (for most of I do) the party you had couldn't be much better your team pride is well known and I've partied with some of you. lol

[nkywrestlingfanatic 0]

First and foremost congrats to all cougar wrestlers great job! The only other thing I have to say on this subect is there is no one person to blame for the miscalculation it was an honest mistake. Trying to keep up with so many brackets after a computer oops and 12 hrs is tough. GREAT JOB again to Fern Creek! So now see other thread and give good opinions on how we keep from happening again.  For as the cougers getting cheated out of their celebration party it is a shame but if I know you all (for most of I do) the party you had couldn't be much better your team pride is well known and I've partied with some of you. lol

You are absolutely right and Coach Frank & Barb told me point blank that it was an obvious honest mistake.  I didn't mean cheated in the sense that someone cheated on the scoring.  I meant we settled for 2nd when we felt like we earned first.  It still was a great time.  I just don't apreciate some of the tone regarding taking the trophy from the Ryle kids.  Coach Frank & Barb just wanted whats right for our kids.

[On the Whistle 0]

I must have really stirred the pot. With that I will say this. Conner has done a great job with their program. My hats off to the kids and coaches. Great Job on your 1st place title. Frank has done a great job building this program. I didn't mean anything to come across the wrong way in my last message. I was just saying that I know Coach Martin and his character. He wouldn't have taking the trophy back from the Conner kids. Now we can debate this all day long, but he wouldn't have requested or asked for it back. He would have made other arrangements for his team to get another or different trophy/award.

Bottom line is this. Both of these programs have GREAT support from the parents, they have good coaches and most important wonderful kids in these programs. I guess after reading some of these messages and hearing all the shots being given, it kind of struck a nerve when I posted my original message. And I'm big enough to apologias if anyone feels like I was giving blows/shots at them.

Maybe I started a big rivalry between these programs which isn't all that bad. It will definitely make the wrestling events more exciting when the Raider kids wrestle the Conner kids. Its all good and again I congrats to the Conner Kids, Coaches and Parents on their success. I also give another apology to Frank and his kids for any wrong doing/or statements on my part.

Congrats Conner Kids!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[NKYWrestler 1]

I must have really stirred the pot. With that I will say this. Conner has done a great job with their program. My hats off to the kids and coaches. Great Job on your 1st place title. Frank has done a great job building this program. I didn't mean anything to come across the wrong way in my last message. I was just saying that I know Coach Martin and his character. He wouldn't have taking the trophy back from the Conner kids. Now we can debate this all day long, but he wouldn't have requested or asked for it back. He would have made other arrangements for his team to get another or different trophy/award.

Bottom line is this. Both of these programs have GREAT support from the parents, they have good coaches and most important wonderful kids in these programs. I guess after reading some of these messages and hearing all the shots being given, it kind of struck a nerve when I posted my original message. And I'm big enough to apologias if anyone feels like I was giving blows/shots at them.

Maybe I started a big rivalry between these programs which isn't all that bad. It will definitely make the wrestling events more exciting when the Raider kids wrestle the Conner kids. Its all good and again I congrats to the Conner Kids, Coaches and Parents on their success. I also give another apology to Frank and his kids for any wrong doing/or statements on my part.

Congrats Conner Kids!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Man you need to check your own character before you question mine.  I am fully identified.  Who are you exactly to question me on my moral compass?  What is your name?

You act like I called up and said strip the 1st place from Ryle's kids.  These are youth programs and I am all for the kids best interest.  I would have handed the trophy over and taken the 2nd placement that was earned if the issue were reversed.  As a matter of fact it was last year due to similar socring issues Ryle took 2nd over our club.  I had no issue with it even though we technically scored more points than them. 

I can not for the life of me understand how you would want it otherwise, as a coach I do not want my kids claiming a victory they did not earn.  It would be the bigger program and a better lesson for them to accept it with dignity and composure.  Then get get back in the trenches and fix the problems.  There are lessons to be learned from defeat that you can not from victory.  Such as how to get back up after getting knocked down to carry on the fight. The struggle is what builds the kids character and makes them stonger.

Scoring was a very obvious issue to me and my coaches the day of the tournament.  The number of brackets and the math was in our favor, we scored a lot higher than announced.  We were given 2nd place and told the results would be sent out when we approached them about our concerns.(SHOCKING) Once we had the brackets and looked into the issue our concern was confirmed.  Several teams had contacted Fern Creek on the issue prior to our discussion with them. 

As far as requesting 1st place from your team that is not an accurate assumption you made.  We had already been contacted and notified there would be an exchange.  I made arrangements to pick it up after our varsity coach could not.  I needed it ASAP, a lot of folks were happy to say the least and had a pep rally that day to announce the news, we wanted the trophy present for the kids.  I played phone tag all afternoon but it was not possible and we missed the opportunity.  I drove across town the next morning and got the trophy exchanged.  That was the extent of my involvement personally.

You need to take any further issue up with your coach, I am done, you are not one of mine and I do not babysit.  Here is a communication sent out to the regional coaches this morning from Stan that may open your eyes a little:

To all,

This past weekends scoring debacle was a mess and quite embarrassing for all involved.  I've tried to remain as impartial as possible.  I brought the issue to Fern Creek's attention on Sunday after reviewing the brackets.  On Monday morning they called and reviewed the scores at length.  We determined Conner was the winner and Raiders were second.  I called Wayne Badida at 9:00 am and arranged to give the 1st place trophy to Conner.

According to the bylaws you cannot receive credit for wins in multiple brackets of the same weight class.  This is the biggest area that was screwed up.  I've investigated the whole issue and found that Fern Creek did all they could do to make sure the score was correct. 

I congratulate Conner on a superb effort.  They have a great program that keeps getting better.

Obviously, we must correct this scoring issue.  Below are some suggestions I've had.  Please email back with any ideas you might have.

I have had two High School coaches volunteer to keep score next year.  We have to come up with a system that works.

The scoring problems are:

1.) Current system takes away points from any team with multiple kids in one weight regardless if they are in different brackets. 

2.) Round Robins.  While it might be a fluke this year that one team had 9 round robins,  it seems like an awefully unfair advantage to be guaranteed a minimum of 72 points before the tournament begins. 

3.) Current scoring system is a nightmare for the scorekeeper.  We need to simplify this.

Suggestions I've had so far.

1.) Large school and small school trophies.  All brackets would be scored making the scorekeepers job much easier.  Only one wrestler per team per bracket just like Middle School. 

We would have to determine what constitutes large vs. small.  Is it the size of your club or the size of the school you represent.

2.) Before the tournament begins each team would have a designated number of scorers.  These kids would be named up front.  My concern with this is that it wouldn't take long for the coaches to realize that by naming really small or really large kids they would be guaranteed points. 

3.) No scorekeeping at all.  Personally, this is the only tournament we attend all year where score is kept.  I like keeping score.  I think it is a good barometer for your program.

Any other suggestions or modifications would be great.

Thanks,

Stan Martin

Jay,

I do not have Harrison County or Newport's email.  Would you please forward this to them?

Thanks,

Stan

You seem like a very ignorant person who does not have details doing this.  I will not take this slander and that is what it is.  Move on this is the only way your kids are going to be able to that.  They deserve to be able to do that.  The planets are still in alignment.  The sky is still blue.  Life is still good.  Be the adult and help your kids understand the issue, celebrate their success and focus them on that.