Winning

[TheGuru 0]

Team scores do matter.  You should have seen the excitment of the kids on the teams who were in the running last night.  It mattered to them.  Team scores matter at the Middle School level and the High School level so why not at the Elementary level.  If you don't like the same teams winning it every year then do a better job at bringing kids into your program and keeping them interested in the sport.  Isn't that what it's about? Bringing kids in and growing the sport. I always hear about growing the sport in Kentucky.

By the way.  No disrespect but seriously can anyone tell me what's up with JC?  They could have had a good showing this year with the number of kids you had last year.  Ryle and Conner travel all over.  The way I look at it is there is no excuse.

Let's recognize these programs.  WAY TO GO Ryle, Conner and Fern Creek!  Congratualations.

You are comparing apples to oranges here.  At the high school level, there are 14 weight classes.  Teams can only bring 1 kid per weight class to state.  It's a level playing field.  Middle school allows I think 2 kids per weight class, but 1 is a non scorer, and the weights are set.  Elementary has multiple brackets per weight class, you can bring as many kids as you like in each weight class.  It would make more sense in my opinion to just have it like an open tournament and throw out the team scores.  Until it gets to a point where there are set weight classes, just have it as a true open.  Another option maybe the youth association could consider is to have a state duals type tournament AFTER the individual state tournament to crown the elementary state team champs.  Other states do this at the h.s. level, and that is a TRUE team champion.

[TheGuru 0]

You are comparing apples to oranges here.  At the high school level, there are 14 weight classes.  Teams can only bring 1 kid per weight class to state.  It's a level playing field.  Middle school allows I think 2 kids per weight class, but 1 is a non scorer, and the weights are set.  Elementary has multiple brackets per weight class, you can bring as many kids as you like in each weight class.  Any way you slice it, team scores are a mess at the elementary level.  It would make more sense to just have it like an open tournament and throw out the team scores.  Until it gets to a point where there are set weight classes, just have it as a true open.  Another option maybe the youth association could consider is to have a state duals type tournament AFTER the individual state tournament to crown the elementary state team champs.  Other states do this at the h.s. level, and that is a TRUE team champion.

[PinAndWin 64]

I understand what you're saying Guru and your ideas are good ones.  I'm not comparing apples to oranges though.  I'm just saying that even with the current system, at least the top 2 out of 3 teams every year are truely being reflected as the best teams.  Yes numbers definately do play a part.  Which is exactly my point about JC.  It's not intended to be a slam, but  If they would have traveled with a fraction of the kids they had when they hosted last year, they may have finished in the top 3 or 4.  It's not solely about the number of kids though.  I believe Ryle had like 19 first place finishers, and alot of placers and same with Conner. That parts coaching and the quality of the kids. That is a tribute to 2 outstanding programs and their passion for the sport.  I'd like to see more programs show up for the State Tournament in numbers. It just makes the tournament that much more competive and that much better.

The tournaments getting more competive every year.  I still think the eight man brackets stink.  Make them 16 and let's get these kids some matches.  They show up and some of them only get to wrestle twice.  That's a whole other topic though...

[heavy83 15]

I personally like the 8 man brackets because I believe it keeps more in the sport. At this young age a lot of these kids need a little confidence boost to get them back the next year. And a 8 man bracket means more kids will get more matches. In 16 man more kids will only get to wrestle 2 matches and go home. I don't know for sure but I believe at least 90% of weight brackets couldn't fill a 16 man so why change formats for a very small percentage. IMO if 1 kid gets a medal that normally wouldn't get and keeps him wrestling instead of quitting the tournament is a success. Again for the "true champion" people host a ky tourn. of chmpions.  notb  Elem. state is to promote the sport for the next levels not single out just the best.

[PinAndWin 64]

I've talked to many people about the topic of multiple brackets and most don't agree with the way it is currently.  Just a handful like it the way it is.  I know one new coach in Kentucky who wrestled in Ohio and was very successful.  He didn't know how the tournament was set up and he thinks it absolutely absurd.  I know some coaches who kind of look at Cincinnati as the model on how to run tournaments.  I believe they have one elemetary state champ.

Until more people come to these meetings and let their voices be heard, it is what it is.  At any rate, it's still a fun tournament.

[TheGuru 0]

I see what you are saying Pinandwin.  And i agree with you also that the tournament is getting more competitive from what I've heard it is getting very tough.  I'm not trying to take away from the teams or the kids that are doing well.  They've worked hard and deserve the recognition.  I'm pretty sure you are right about the way Ohio does their elementary state.  They have true regionals that are qualifiers and they have 16 man brackets at state.  Maybe this is where Kentucky elementary wrestling is heading.  So I'm not criticizing, just saying team scores don't seem to make much sense when they split the brackets and run it basically like an open tournament.