pioneer_pride

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Posts posted by pioneer_pride

  3. Posted · Report reply

    To give some more background on why i had pushed earlier for ky m.s. wrestling to go with nuway or to follow their model....when we first looked into getting usaw coverage for the m.s. clubs, a charge for a usaw card was going to be like $30 per kid plus club charter AND they would only be covered at usaw events where all participants were usaw covered. Asking the school teams to pony up another $30 per kid was impossible. Keith was able to work with usaw and got cards for the club teams at $10 per kid for our in state season. This was a great compromise that also allowed kids to pay the extra cost to get a full card and continue on with usaw.

    Cincinnati has a fs/gr league. If you contact "sids dad" (don jones) on here he knew a lot about their cincy league for fs/gr. They used to have weekly open challenge mats that were like scrimmages. And one or two open tournaments per weekend. When I last looked into it, they were open to accepting ky teams but they only accepted two teams at a time. My son hated fs at first until he understood the scoring then like ccms_cs said above it was his favorite style.

    Fs in the off season is great because most of the kids you meet up with are the true year round die hards.

  4. Posted · Report reply

    Keith has done a hell of a lot. Ive been out of the loop for a while and that is still obvious what he has done sending kids to fargo. He said he would do it years ago and he has. Keith/usaw has done good things. When I coached, I thought fs/gr was a fun great change of pace for kids. It was just different enough and emphasized different aspects that kept kids from getting burnt out. Id say you gotta have fs/gr in the state. During folkstyle season theres nothing wrong in my opinion with both leagues having a presence here. I dont think its as much of a population thing as it is just another opportunity to compete outside our region. Nuway joins leagues from many of our bordering states.

    Keith has done a hell of a lot. Ive been out of the loop for a while and that is still obvious what he has done sending kids to fargo. He said he would do it years ago and he has. Keith/usaw has done good things. When I coached, I thought fs/gr was a fun great change of pace for kids. It was just different enough and emphasized different aspects that kept kids from getting burnt out. Id say you gotta have fs/gr in the state. During folkstyle season theres nothing wrong in my opinion with both leagues having a presence here. I dont think its as much of a population thing as it is just another opportunity to compete outside our region. Nuway joins leagues from many of our bordering states.

    8798 - id say all of those states have a nuway league and a usaw league.

  5. Posted · Report reply

    Chris - I got involved up to my neck on this many years ago and heard both sides pretty much at the highest level. Dave Dean and Roger Chandler on the Nuway side. A guy named Ted Witulski (sp?) And others on the usa wrestling side. I can give you some pros and cons for each that I heard. Im sure this thread will blow up like usual, so im just posting what ive been told and let people judge for themselves.

    USA wrestling

    pros

    -they support the Olympic movement

    -they run the most prestigious tournament in the country (Fargo) for kids wanting to get noticed for college. That may have changed with additional nationals, but I still have heard fargo is the pinnacle for a h.s. kid.

    -fs/gr is a good change of pace for kids after h.s. season. This is my opinion.

    -their insurance coverage and support of their clubs in the case of lawsuits is superb. Guy from Illinois usa wrestling told me how he was sued before for an injured kid....usa wrestling did a great job.

    Cons

    -not sure if this is the case anymore, but they previously all but neglected folkstyle

    -costly. Their coaches passes, wrestlers cards, certifications add up to a pretty penny. These funds go out to colorado springs and are used to help support train olympic hopefuls. How does this benefit Kentucky? How many olympic hopefuls have we ever had? Not that many.

    Nuway

    Pros

    -they developed nuway to form a national organization to rival usa wrestling to support folkstyle wrestling.

    -their model is to take a modest % of fees for administration (website, insurance, etc.) And allow states to govern themselves and keep their dollars to grow their state.

    -helps develop folkstyle/collegiate wrestlers in state to support college wrestling. According to Dave Dean, as an MSU coach....he had to recruit more out of state before nuway in order to stay competitive.

    -allows for wrestlers to compete across state borders with membership (so does usaw)

    Cons

    -still forming/growing. Probably going to make mistakes and learn some tough lessons along the way.

    -competes with fs/gr off-season so could possibly negatively impact olympic movement.

    -their insurance coverage has a cap on catastrophic injury. Usaw does not. Ive been told this can be good or bad. Basically if a lawyer knows your liability insurance has no cap they will seek more money.

    These are the things I have been told. To answer your question if they can both exist in our state and would we benefit, I always believed it would be good to have both just to give people a choice. If you dont like usaw, form a club and go with nuway and vice versa. However, since most people are more familiar with folkstyle, you may have kids choosing nuway just out of familiarity and never getting started in fs/gr. No one wants that either.

    • Upvote 1

  7. Posted · Report reply

    why aren't any of the coopers in this conversation ?

    Just goes to show just how selective "the list" is. I put up a list that included caleb ervin but not john Fahy. That was a close call to me, but the impression caleb had on me was huge. He was amazing. Nothing against some of these lists but i think people underestimate him. Id put him ahead of brad or Kevin cooper. Not a knock on them, just think he was that good.

  8. Posted · Report reply

    Man am I mad no pics of ATM wrestling on Fri , they had 26 seconds , plenty of time to get some pics :)

    Nice credentials CCMS that's a stud .Will we see a sr NHSCA run ?

    One of the funniest posts ive ever seen on here.

    I wouldnt know how to even rank the top 5. A lot of deserving kids to consider. In no order my guess would be Brock, atm, joe carr Jr, Caleb ervin, boston.

    For what it is worth, I still haven't seen atm wrestle since he was a freshman...but one of my brothers told me they thought he could be this state's first d1 ncaa champ. Maybe even an Olympic champ. They seen the merits and a lot of other top big boys and they believed without question atm at least majors them, most likely pins them. So settle down Tarzan, there is plenty of love for atm in this state. I think he will have a huge bluegrass fan base when he is a multi time d1 ncaa AA.

  9. Posted · Report reply

    Well I'm already working on that. And I agree you shouldn't let the red decide the match. However, I saw a lot of calls be made wrong or not at all. For example I watched an OT match where a st. X kid was behind the other wrestler and the other kid put his hands on the mat. That should have been a takedown to win but the ref never called it and let them continue. St. X lost the match and was cheated.

    My son wrestling at super 32 a few years back lost a match for this exact scenario. He arm dragged the kid 3 times, got behind him....kid put both hands on the mat, even had all his weight on his hands. After the match I complained to the ref and showed the video to the tournament director. Director said two of them were no chance one was questionable, but it was explained to me that a wrestler has to have "reaction time". So if their hands hit, and they pop back up quick enough I was told its not a takedown. Prior to that tournament I was told the rule was if they shift their weight to their hands its a takedown.

  17. Posted · Report reply

    I havent seen atm wrestle a match since his freshman year. One of my brothers who is still pretty involved in ky wrestling told me in their opinion there's never been a big guy in the state that atm couldn't pin. But in regards to the merrits, not sure which one it was...but I think it was the one in debate here went to sr nationals and lost by a point to the eventual champion. At any rate a very close match to a hs national champ. The national champ wrestled in college with my brothers and told them he's never wrestled a guy as strong as merrit before. He did say he gassed and his technique was nothing great. I'm not trying to stir the pot or knock anyone. I'd say atm wins without a doubt but its not a stretch to say merrit was as powerful as atm.

  19. Posted · Report reply

    So what is the official rule regarding when a takedown is scored in this case? My son was in a very similar position at the super 32 a few years back. He lost by 1 and was a match (or maybe 2) away from placing. What I had heard prior to thatbis if wrestler defending the takedown is putting most of his weight on his hands then it is considered a takedown. In otherwards if he is leaning forward as in the second picture its 2 points. Is that correct? If so my son got screwed at super 32. I asked the ref, tournament director and they said the ref should allow for "reaction time".

  25. Posted · Report reply

    Light em up! pressoffice@olympic.org

    While I love your enthusiasm here and im not discouraging you. Theyre going to get hit with so many emails it would be a waste of time to type a well thought out email thinking anyone will read it or respond. It sounds like this was a shady deal. Read the article on foxsports titled "no wrestling in olympics? Unreal"

    The article claims pentathalon has been voted to keep instead of wrestling. Some of the board members had pentahalon connections and the vote was done by hidden ballot?? Wtf....time for a revolution. This is insane.

    I feel bad for most if us as spectators but my God if you were an olympic hopeful for the 2020 olympics like a mark hall....this would turn your life upside down.

    I believe this will get worked out when common sense prevails. The article mentions that wrestling is much more popular than pentathalon. Wrestling will stay. I remember the head wrestling coach at miami making a comment at an seminar that basketball is a fad compared to wrestling. Keep the faith and do what you can. I think the table at state is a great idea. Can you guys keep that going through to youth state?