pioneer_pride

Man, you are something else. Are you now saying their tourneys are a minimum of $18 because I said the highest one I have ever seen was $18? Is that what the "minimum" means to you? On one hand, you are bashing myway for charging too much and on the other hand you are bashing them for paying the national entry fees for their state champs??? That doesn't make sense. By the way, it was top 4 in the state...not state champ that got their entry fee paid for. So let's say their top 4 state placers want to go to the Ohio T of C at like $40 a pop...myway pays this. Their awards are excellent. The $22 is a bargain for their state tournament. What do the top 4 in this state get from USAW? A $0.99 medal? I tell you what, charge the $22 to enter, and give the top 3 kids in this state a custom Team Ky singlet & free admission to Virginia Beach, or T of C, etc. Our kids and parents would love it. To me that is ALL about the kids. Myway is raising the bar in that state. USAW up there will have to step it up to keep up. That competition is good and healthy. And who wins, the kids do.

Dinubus - I'd recheck your facts about the fees. This is straight from the admin from the MYWAY league: "The most expensive tournament fee we have is $22.00 for states. And everyone gets a gift, top eight placers receive plaques, top 4 get a national event paid for, and top 3 get MYWA singlets. So if you do well you probably make money on us!" I think your $40 fee includes a membership card and tournament registration. Yes, it really sounds like they are all about the money in that league and have no interest in the kids! lol Best of luck to Kentucky USAW, but the Myway guys are pretty good guys too.

Eville Dad - you took the words right out of my mouth. I also compliment Keith Smith for all he's done, but if someone showed up claiming they had something better...i'd at least listen to what they have to say. kdsmith27 - i never said you dropped the ball, that was Nightmare. I don't know if my knowledge is weak of Dave or not, others can say what they want I've never had a reason not to believe the guy. When you say Dave Dean felt like "he was not getting enough recognition from usaw" - let's be specific there. He felt like the kids from Michigan were not getting enough recognition from USAW. He had Michigan kids that wanted to train at the OTC and were denied. He got ticked, and decided to try and build something better than USAW. He said he looked at the 10 years prior to him starting MYWAY and how much money Michigan had sent to USAW. His conservative estimate was over 2 million dollars. In addition to this, he was already trying to get USAW to sanction a folkstyle league which he was told "no". This is his words. I'm not saying they are right or wrong. Assuming he's not lying, I agree with what he did. It seems to me he was just standing up for the kids in his state, rather than lying down and letting USAW take their money and support kids from other states. For the record, I will have a USAW card for my kid as soon as he is healthy. He's not attended a single USAW tourney in Ky that I can recall, not by choice, just went to Indiana or Ohio because they were closer. When kids or parents ask me how to get matches in the summer, I tell them join a freestyle club and go to www.iswa.org or www.themat.com and find tournaments. I'm not against USAW, just a fan of Myway. Chill out! Dinubus - CYW is not a USAW league. How about you try and get your facts straight. I'm trying to get my facts straight on the fees per tournament for Myway. You are claiming they are $40 per tournament. I call b.s. But if I'm wrong, I'll man up here and admit I was wrong. Maybe there were some tournaments up there that were $40, but not all. Get real.

dinubus - Dave Dean started Myway wrestling after he approached USAW to get them involved in a folkstyle league. Just like PA & NJ have. Probably other states. He was an assistant coach at MSU and thought their state would benefit from a folkstyle league in their state. USAW (in that state) had no interest in it. Just FS/GR. So he started his own league and USAW in Michigan now has some competition. Dave Dean & Roger Chandler are D1 assistant coaches. But you think they are ignorant about what their state needs? My kid has been to plenty of USAW tourneys, and not 1 has been $10. Usually $15 or more. I've helped out with Myway's website and helped posted some of their flyers. I've not seen a single flyer with a tournament fee of over $18 for non members/$15 for members. Unless their fees went through the roof in the past year...i think you are severely exaggerating on the cost of the tournaments ($40).

Goo has probably watched more of those guys' live matches than you have young fella! I would say that while Joe Carr Jr may have had a mean game face on, he was not what many people would have considered a "punishing" wrestler. He was extremely technical. Especially in his earlier years. He probably could have been as punishing as he wanted to by his Jr/Sr year, simply because he was so much better than the rest of the state. But he wasn't punishing, more technical than anything. Don't flip out on me Kentucky10, that's not an insult at all.

Dinubus - did you watch the interview? Dave Dean mentions New Jersey & Pennsylvania specifically for their strong folkstyle developmental leagues. Pennsylvania has a youth league very much like Myway called PJW. That league has been around for over 40 years, and is probably the best youth wrestling "folkstyle" league in the nation. They are not affiliated with USAW and in fact have joined forces with Dave Dean's NUWAY. http://www.pajw.org/. Dave Dean started myway because USAW at that time didn't have anything going on in folkstyle wrestling. I don't know about your comments about competition up there. You may be right it might have been better under USAW. But I've talked to Dave Dean several times and there is more to his league than just competition. They use the funds generated from that league to sponsor travel teams, camps, etc. They run national championships up there that draws a lot of competition from out of state. The money they are raising up there goes 100% to Michigan wrestling. They are making boatloads of money and are doing good things with it for Michigan. They have goals to eventually help fund start up college wrestling programs. Their focus is 100% on their state. I think that's a good thing and I agree with Nightmare on this. Kentucky would do well to join forces with these guys.

Bear, i agree 100% with you. It is a rough sport, and kids might as well get used to it sooner than later. I knew where you were coming from, didn't think you were a dirty wrestler or anything like that. Eville Dad, i can't even say for certain it is in the rule book, I'm just saying what I was told by a ref. I don't know if there's a term for it or not...I just had a ref say a body scissors can be called illegal if they are using it only to inflict pain.

Honestly, most refs are ex-wrestlers and do not mind a little punishment being dished out. But back to the conversation I had with a ref a few years ago...this ref said they are basically looking to call it when a kid is simply using a hold to hurt their oponent. Not to score points, or to counter a move. If a kid has scissors on the guy, and he's holding on to keep from getting reversed...the ref is not likely going to call it illegal no matter how hard the kid is squeezing. But if the kid is just toying with another wrestler, and they feel like inflicting some pain...they are probably going to call it. At the time i thought there was absolutely nothing in the rule book regarding "punishing" moves, but aparently there is. I wish refs would have called this when i was a first year wrestler on the receiving end of some punishment!

:lol: very nice. This was controversial at middle school level a few years ago. We asked the refs about it, because people were complaining quite a bit about 1 or 2 kids. The ref stated it was basically at the refs discretion as to whether the move was becoming "punishing". I guess "punishing" is the term in the rule book for when a move is just trying to hurt the kid. He said it was at the ref's discretion, but this ref said if he sees a kid basically straightening his toes out when he has a body scissors in, and it looks extremely uncomfortable, he breaks it. I don't remember the ref. Now don't bash on me, I'm just stating what the ref said.

I can't really agree with you on this FCHS. If you wrestle as tough of competition as you can find, in and out of state....you'll end up seeing all kinds of different styles. You should be able to handle a close match come regionals. If you lose a close match at regionals it was probably for some other reason. Conditioning or just bad technique. The perennial powerhouses Ryle, Woodford, Union wrestle out of state and outside of their regions as much as possible and they do ok at regions.

I thought the same thing. I thought he gave up a takedown in the finals at Ryle, but it might have been a reversal. Or it could just be my bad memory. Whoever the kid was, i remember it didn't end up a close match.

ridge44 - i think everyone has already said this in 1 form or another, but give it time. don't doubt yourself and don't get down on yourself. Don't focus on the results in the summer tournaments such as medaling. Focus on improving your technique. When you focus on winning matches and tournaments in the summer, you will be tempted to keep hitting the moves you are used to and are good at. Use the off season to add a few more weapons to your aresenal, get better at what you do good, and get stronger.

re-read your quote there Bear. He said people won't consider him as "such", not as "much". I don't think he was slamming him. Just stating that because he won't be a 4xer that people won't consider him the most dominant wrestler to come out of this state. I don't think people would say that about Kyle for his h.s. career either. But I think when you look at Kyle's entire career he should be known as one of the most accomplished wrestlers from this state if not the most accomplished. Wrestlers peak at different times. Kyle definitely hit his stride his senior year and hasn't looked back. Anyhow, back to Caleb. Caleb is the man. I think people underestimated him a bit as a freshman until he made the finals. But going 62-0 as a sophomore and rolling through the state, and now with the performance at nationals. He's on everyone's radar. I agree with you though, if he stays healthy he will be remembered as one of the best. I did not know he did not give up a takedown all year. That's insane.

honestly the size thing you guys are bringing up is probably true. harrison made 152 BEFORE the season started at Super32. I think he wrestled 160 this year frankly because he had no worries. so could mitch beat him at 160? probably so. but that's because Harrison was probably truly a 152 lber this year wrestling up and mitch looked like a 189 lber last year at state. but technique wise, they are close. either way they are both awesome wrestlers. can't take anything away from a 4xer.

I have no concerns about youth wrestling whatsoever. I have a 5 year old who thinks every tournament is either "state" or "nationals". My point of my post was that there has been arguing on this site regarding the same stuff for 2+ years. Why are people surprised to see posts on here about people complaining about the 8 man brackets? Some people like them, some people don't. People are going to complain on this site. The idiots are the ones who are surprised by this.

Courtney isn't as bad on his feet as everyone tries to say. He's just very good on the mat. Ervin would probably have the edge, but I don't think he would score as much on his feet as people like to believe. It would be a close match. I'd put my money on the more complete wrestler. If you SUCK on the bottom or top, eventually that's where you're going to be in a match. If Courtney met him at state, I think he'd have a game plan to slow Ervin down on his feet.

I have never really disliked the Brands, or their style of wrestling. I remember when Tom Brands was outcasted for not leaving Team Fox Catcher when the DuPont guy shot Dave Schultz. I think Brands deserved that. But this past weekend I heard a lot of people rooting against Iowa. When I asked them why, all of them said it was because of that cocky Brands attitude. Compare that to another Iowa wrestler - Barry Davis - who is one of the nicest, not cocky guy you will ever meet....but was every bit as physical and an "Iowa style" wrestler as anyone. I wonder how much of a negative impact Brands & co will have on Iowa wrestling. Will recruits shy away from Iowa when they feel their coach and wrestlers are jerks? I bet it does. Yes, they won the NCAA's, but I bet you other schools such as OSU are looking a lot more appealing that Iowa is after that tournament.

All the negative talk about the elementary state is getting very old. No one wants it dragged back out, but if people don't like the way things are ran they are going to complain on this site. Most parents are not going to go to the coaches meetings. Are they even allowed to attend, and would you even want them there? Their only venue to vent is this site. These parents are not going to move away to another state that does the tournament the way they want it. They are going to get online and rip the coaches and association to shreds. That's how it goes. All the coaches and officers can at least listen.

Probably not, but maybe. You just never know. Kyle seemed healthy and he has a funky style. I doubt he could beat Metcalf when Metcalf is on his A game, but Metcalf didn't look the same as he normally does in the finals. I heard when the 2 wrestlers approached the stage Metcalf looked flat, and kind of hung on the handrails coming up to the stage compared to Caldwell who seemed pumped and full of energy. If anyone ever needed proof that ANYONE can be beat, that was it. I do agree with you about the Metcalf/Caldwell match though. Metcalf was broke mentally more than physically. Caldwell was a much more explosive wrestler than Metcalf, but I think Metcalf could handle that. But when the lead got too big in the 3rd period I think Metcalf knew he couldn't overcome that and he was defeated. I was actually rooting for Metcalf but you can't take anything away from Caldwell. That first period was stunning. I actually had the pleasure of attending this event. It was my first time, and I will say to anyone who is truly a wrestling fan...try to make it there! The cameraderie is very cool. Everywhere you turn it seems like you're standing next to an NCAA AA, or Olympic medalist. Next year Kyle will probably have a chance to win the whole thing. It would be great to see a whole Kentucky section showing support to him. He really seems like a great kid and is a great example for Kentucky wrestlers to try to follow in his footsteps. I could not have been happier for him and his family this weekend. Something else that went on over the weekend that I'm not sure they showed much of this on TV...but there was a kid with 1 leg who made All-American. I think he was 4th around 125 or 133. It was inspiring to say the least. He received several standing ovations, and if you look him up on youtube show your wrestlers this guy. The whole time you watch him wrestle, you are just saying to yourself "how can he do that?". You talk about overcoming obsticles, that is simply amazing.

I heard Ruschell got a 5 seed and didn't hear anything about Starks yet. Can someone post any information about their draws here? NCAA tournament links are blocked at my work unfortunately. Just curious if Ruschell & Starks got decent draws or not.

Kyle's also beaten him before I think last year at a qualifier for the olympics I think. So hopefully he can pull it off this year.

Kids can make huge strides from Soph to Sr year. I put him on here because he was a 2xer and made all american at nationals I think his senior year. To me that sets some of these guys ahead of the others. Frank Wolnitzek, same thing. I believe took 5th his sr year. 2X undefeated HWT state champ to boot.

Ok, hope this doesn't PO fatman, but is that Gartha Herring? That dude was ROUND...but could do a backflip. Very quick and aggressive. I would throw these guys in the top 5, and in no specific order: Frank Wolnitzek Bruce Stepp Livingston Merrit Lawrence Woodford Chris Floyd Honorable mention: Ryan Putthof Anthony Bailey Gartha Herring

Best of luck guys! Looks like a good group of wrestlers.

I recall a discussion like this last year regarding refs not strictly enforcing certain rules like referees position. I've seen a lot of big national tournaments high school & college where they are very relaxed on this. Some very knowledgeable people on this site (grapplehed) also said they seen this sort of thing at the beast of the east. I'm not necessarily disagreeing with what you are saying, but it's not just in Kentucky where rules are not always strictly adhered to. The hair thing seems like a silly thing for refs to be worried about.