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Mike Calhoun

The Great Debate - Public vs. Private

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Maybe KHSAA should allow a kid who participated in a private school to transfer to the required public school without sitting out one year. But not the other way around.

This way those parents that were "duped" could send their kid to the public school they live in without any repercussions.

That is already the rule in KY. You can transfer from Private to Public without any penalty. If you transfer from Public to Private (without a change of residence) you have to sit out one year. Of course this only applies to kids already in high school not kids in this case that are going from 8th to HS.

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If a kid cannot pass the entrance exam, then the carriculum is either far more challenging than the public school he came from(which proves my point), or the public school system failed that student. Again proving the same point. Why do you have the idea that the private school cannot or will not help an academically struggling student? Again, my son scored middle of the road on the entrance test. For 150 measly dollars they are giving him summer classes for 6 weeks, and already has a network of upperclassmen to help him as well. You're right. Public schools will take anyone. And then grade on a curve to ensure "good" results.

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i didnt want to step in on this topic but there are a lot of half facts being said here.

1. There is a penalty for going Private to Public, you must prove with reason why the transfer was made and show financial hardship

2. They high college prep or college maturation rate is a shallow arguement, the truth is not because private schools prepare you more, its because of social economics, given the fact that 90 % of private school parents pay 8-10 k a year for their kids to go to HS, so schools like UL, UK, or even EKU are actually cheaper than the HS tuition that they pay, plus I dont know the numbers but I would bet the parents that are paying the bill have a college or hi trade school education that got them the job so they can afford the private school in the first place

3. Someone brought up Rajon Rondo and going to Oak Hill and how he never would found success if he would have stayed at Eastern.

A. Rajon was being recurited by Tubby, Rick and every coach in the area when he was a freshman and sophmore. He would have been at either UL or UK if he would have went to Oak hill or not

B. Rajon's main reason for leaving was because the head coach of Eastern left after his junior year and he prefered not to play for the new coach, he had a chance withe the help of Derek Anderson to join a traveling team (Oak Hill is nothing but an AAU team that gives HS diplomas, thats why they cant compete for their own state title) That teams I believe now has 6 current NBA players on the team, how many high school teams say that their six man Rajon was an NBA ALL Star

4. Public School curriculm is plenty rigorous, especially in Jefferson, Oldham, Fayette,Kenton and several systems across the state, take a look at the top seniors that get into UK and thier top programs,notice that these kids come from public schools across the state. Your almost saying that the best coaches are in the private schools too and I know that isnt farther from the truth

5. Private schools dont have to deal with certain problems like poverty. How many private school kids come home to no food, no power and a floor to sleep on. Education and social economics go hand and hand.With money comes parential envolvement, comes motivation, and student participation. Take in the fact of this, how many kids from the projects or very low income familes could afford wrestling or even sports at a high level. I have coached kids where I paid there dues and even bought food at tournaments because it gave them a chance.

Dont ever say Public schools are inferior to Private schools, work in one for 20 years and you will see the light. Usually we have to do the job with 1 hand tied behind our back and take the critisim of being the bad guy in the media. The system is perfect, some people will fall through the cracks but if the world was a perfect place then there would be no success because there would be no failures.5

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Stalling-- In Jefferson County 90% is a B average and maybe you have a kid that just doesnt take test well, I have seen several students that are All A students in AP courses that cant crack a 20 on the ACT and D level students that gets 28s or 29s

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if you wanted to level the playing field a little bit, make private schools have an attendence zone that doesnt overlap each other. Like say Trinity, StX, Desales, Holy Cross divide up Jefferson County. Or even a rule that states you must live in the county that the school is in. Watch the playing field start to even out a little. One of the things that is lost in all this is education. The right to go to a private school or the right to play sports in a private or public school is a luxury. I dont believe in finanical aid for private schools.

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BigEd, those points are valid. And also useless to me. All the reasons that you stated are exactly why private schools ARE better than public. By your own admition you have to do things with little resources and one hand tied behind your back. You also mention low income families and social economics playing a part. Lower social economics also play a huge part in drugs and crime. That's a proven fact. So you're saying my son is better off with your school and its limited resources, and all the social ills that come with lower income students (you brought it up) than with a school full of teachers with masters degrees, unlimited resources both financially and connection wise? I will agree to disagree on that one. And I never said the coaches were any better at private schools. where did you think I inferred that? But since you mention it, his wrestling coaches next year have all coached numerous State Champs and have NCAA acomplishments. And his lifting coach right now is the strength and conditioning coach for the lowly Bengals. I'm not bragging. His Mom and I work very hard to send him there. We can barely afford it. But judging by all his freinds that go there, and the list of pro athletes and congressmen and other successful people that went there... Id say you really are just biased to public schools since you've been there twenty years and really aren't being honest with yourself about the benefits of a school like that. My was and is this... if you can find a way to send your kid somewhere like that, and you don't, then you are cheating them out of all the opportunities we parents claim to want to give our kids.

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if you can find a way to send your kid somewhere like that, and you don't, then you are cheating them out of all the opportunities we parents claim to want to give our kids.

In my opinion I would keep them from the one minded idea of religion (or non-religion, if they choose), and the "better than thou" attitude that is so often seen in private schools. I prefer my kids to experience all of the culture, and social differences in a public school. Therefore when they become adults they can cope and associate with those type of people in the real world.

As I said before private and public schools vary in education. If the school you are sending your kids to have mostly teachers with masters degrees then it is in the minority. Most people with master degrees cannot afford to teach at a private school because the pay is so much less than public. Unless you are referring to a master degree in religion. Then I would say that in no way makes them better teachers.

Many in my family have tried the private way and when over half returned to the public mostly because of attitude in the private school. I was more than happy to say "I told you so".

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Well, sorry to hear your family had a bad experience. As for our group, its not all roses. But we are very happy with everything so far, and of all the high school boys we have known in our school none have returned to public. So, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

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Stalling- we all strive to be in a better place, one of the luxuries of private school is that you can sector your self from types of people that you think are bad. I have been around both public and private schools personally.In the ratio, I graduated from the only high school in the state that has had a pulizer prize, graymeyer award, and almost a supreme court justice and has produced quite a few top level professionals. The school I coached at had several athletes that turned professional including 3 that are active now. I even coached a gentleman that just recently got his doctrate from Yale in journalism. Public and Private schools are both good, they just operate on 2 sets of rules but 1 basic principal remains, you get what you invest. As for coaching, I have had my shares of state championships and all americans in 2 different sports. If I had a school of 1000 boys , championships would be in a little more abundance for me too. Also the school that I was at, 85% of the teachers had masters degrees including me and a large percentage had certifications past masters degree.

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For people of the catholic faith there is no topic more important than religion, and the public schools have alienated us.There is no title my children can achieve that is greater than being in the state of grace.I have used the examples of the life of Christ to challenge my children.Work like it is all up to you and pray like it is all up to God is our motto.I do not push it on anyone but I dare anyone to try and take it from us.Public schools can help individuals achieve great things, but if we have to pretend that God doesnt exist while we are there being oppressed,sensored,forced to deny our faith,then we must go to catholic schools if we can afford it.For the record I went to public schools as did my wife,we do not fit into most of the private school stereo types that were posted in this thread.Our ultimate goal is eternity with God and along the way we will be in the world competing in sports,and seeking jobs but hopefully obeying a set of standards that keeps us from being of the world. This is my opinion take or leave it but this is why I would choose a catholic school for my children .

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Stalling- we all strive to be in a better place, one of the luxuries of private school is that you can sector your self from types of people that you think are bad. I have been around both public and private schools personally.In the ratio, I graduated from the only high school in the state that has had a pulizer prize, graymeyer award, and almost a supreme court justice and has produced quite a few top level professionals. The school I coached at had several athletes that turned professional including 3 that are active now. I even coached a gentleman that just recently got his doctrate from Yale in journalism. Public and Private schools are both good, they just operate on 2 sets of rules but 1 basic principal remains, you get what you invest. As for coaching, I have had my shares of state championships and all americans in 2 different sports. If I had a school of 1000 boys , championships would be in a little more abundance for me too. Also the school that I was at, 85% of the teachers had masters degrees including me and a large percentage had certifications past masters degree.

wow. Good for you. As has been established on here several times, there are good and bad in both. But, most on here seem to only see the bad in private, while extoling the greatness of public. I don't need your resume and your school history. If you like, Ill dig up info tomorrow on our school history and we can put them head to head. Know what? I still won't send my kid to a public school. We have several pro athletes as well that are active, politicians, scientist ect... but riddle me this batman, is your school you attended the exception or the rule for public school? And by the way... you got this. And you got that. WE GOT JESUS!

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The only issues I have with private school choices

#1 the myth that private schools are better academically

#2 the amount of athletic students that turn catholic their 9th grade year especially when their bother or sister goes to a public school

I never had a problem with a kid that goes through the catholic grade school system and comes out a great student or grade athlete or people that send their kid to a school because of religous beliefs. With the exception of extra curricular clubs like FCA, public schools are run on the consitutional belief of seperation of church and state (Im not saying thats right or wrong, I am Southern Baptist)

Private Schools are great. I feel bad for the teachers there, instead of spending so much money on facilities, more money needs to be spent on teacher salaries, benefits and retirement plans.

As for athletics, my fair belief if a team is going to be eligible for the state championship, they should only be able to draw athletes from the county the school resides in. If not maybe that team should be like Oak Hill BB and just play a national schedule.

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wow. Good for you. As has been established on here several times, there are good and bad in both. But, most on here seem to only see the bad in private, while extoling the greatness of public. I don't need your resume and your school history. If you like, Ill dig up info tomorrow on our school history and we can put them head to head. Know what? I still won't send my kid to a public school. We have several pro athletes as well that are active, politicians, scientist ect... but riddle me this batman, is your school you attended the exception or the rule for public school? And by the way... you got this. And you got that. WE GOT JESUS!

Wow, dumbest comment I've seen on here in a while. So since I attended a public school and coached at a public school, I don't have Jesus?!?! I think that was a sophomoric chant the student section of Cincy St. X was cheering at a football game against Colerain this year. It was detested and ridiculed then and it is now as well. It's an absolute insult to anyone of faith who attended a public school. You think all kids who attend private Catholic schools have faith and religion and those who attend public schools don't simply because of where they receive their education?

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I started my kid at Ballard Bruins Wrestling Club that two former college wrestlers headed up. These brothers are not on this forum to see this crap. Ballard High School dumped the wrestling program the same year we started wrestling in KY. Let's just imagine if they had a team right now. I saw potential in that room eight years ago. We went to River City and my son learned the sport . So much for public school wrestling on the East Side of jefferson county. I attended a Catholic high School in Northeast Ohio, I get it. Let's stop this nonsense.

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Wow, dumbest comment I've seen on here in a while. So since I attended a public school and coached at a public school, I don't have Jesus?!?! I think that was a sophomoric chant the student section of Cincy St. X was cheering at a football game against Colerain this year. It was detested and ridiculed then and it is now as well. It's an absolute insult to anyone of faith who attended a public school. You think all kids who attend private Catholic schools have faith and religion and those who attend public schools don't simply because of where they receive their education?

Yep. It was a chant at a St. X game. Colerain lost, and jokingly started chanting "we got girls", since X is an all boy school. So X chanted back "we got Jesus". The kids on both sides all seemed to find it funny. Sorry you didn't find the humor in it, that's how it was meant. But I do seem to notice most of the people rallying against my comments on this thread seem to public school coaches or affiliated with public schools. Hmm. Funny how that works. By the way, Chargers suck. How's that for dumb?

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Wow from "We have Jesus" to "Chargers suck".

From a man that may or may not have really existed to a school with kids attending it.

Either way you look at it. If you are a religious man (which you claim you are) you have violated the faith in both comments.

The first by declaring your superiority and the second by insulting youths.

As I have mentioned numerous times. If you attend for religious reasons that is great, you are following your faith/ideas. I have no problem with that. I also don't try to force my opinion on others (even my own children). I teach them about all that is out there and the different belief systems and they can make their own judgments from their own education. Which is varied to allow them to see other points of view. I don't like guns either, but I have no problem with other responsible people owning them. (My son even owns one, but it's not kept in my house).

As BigD said. Don't try to say private are better academically, you get out of a school whatever you put into it as a family. I have my opinion while you have yours on which school is better suited for your family. I have not problem with that as long as it is not because of athletic reasons and you don't live 100 miles away (or a different state) from the private school your children play for.

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Grappler, I agree with the last portion of your post. Some of it. Academically speaking, stats are stats and more private school kids go to college percentage wise than public. Period. With 95 percent of a student body going on to college, you can't argue with that. And yes... I went from a light hearted Jesus joke to Chargers suck. How long am I supposed to take the high road when so many public school geniuses called me "dumb"? After I realized most of those guys worked in public school and coached there, I calmed down a bit. I understand. They have a union and pension and vacation and all that to worry about. The Brothers that teach at our school all have abigger calling. They do it for the love of teaching, mentoring and God. Unlike posters above, who say they feel sorry for them because they don't make much money. So, as I sit and watch another tragic public school massacre unfold on the news, Ill think about the love and brotherhood at our "snooty" private school.

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I feel like a teacher in an elementary school class. Once again the topic has managed to gravitate toward nonsense. Please don't let the Trinity crowd divert our attention into a dead end conversation. I'm beginning to believe they are giving classes on damage control. That was sarcasm. Please don't divert the thread into some satirical tangent to draw attention away from the real problem. I hope we all believe in God and/or Jesus and to say that a particular school has Jesus is terrible. I'm sure Jesus would take exception. The problem that was originally stated here are the tactics used by a certain school over many years to acquire athletes. Before anybody starts crying foul let me say that some of you are in for a rude awakening in the next few months. In your school's attempt to dominate public school athletics, they have made many mistakes. You have some very unhappy parents that did not drink the Kool Aid and it's going to come back to haunt you. You may want to keep your "we have Jesus" speeches to yourselves for awhile. Enough said on that. The way I see it is this, if I start a private school and that school recruits athletes from Texas, Alabama, Florida, California, or anywhere in the world for that matter, and I manage to win at all the sports in Jefferson Co and the state, I would guess that Trinity would line up to cry foul. Particularly when they start losing recruits. But again, what has my new school accomplished? Where does it stop? Again refer to my "catching fish in a barrell" analogy. There is absolutely NO sport in catching fish in a barrell. If Trinity feels good about that type of winning, then I feel sad for them. If Trinity wants to win at all costs, fine. But take your teams, all of them, out of public school athletics and play athletics somewhere that gives you that type of similar competition. Win in that venue and then you can crow. In case some of you haven't noticed, Trinity is barely on any public school athletic schedules. People are getting a little irritated with the tactics. Is anyone besides myself seeing a trend here? In my humble opinion, if Trinity does not fix the problem itself or move to a different athletic venue soon, the next step will be to exclude them from district competition on the public school level. Then what? Now your kid is playing sports at a school that has nowhere to play. Better think twice before you make a choice like that.

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I have tried to stay out of this but it is starting to get absurd. I honestly think the offensive part is implying that public school coaches do not integrate or put value on God in thier programs. Some do and some don't but it is thier choice. I have no problem putting an emphasis on how important religion is in my kids lives. I do not know how or why we went on this tangent. The truth is all schools recruit in some form or fashion. The frustration from coaches comes when some schools are more persecuted than others. Here is a stat that some people don't know: 100% of all Central Seniors were excepted into a University, College or Vocational School last year. Big Ed said it best when he said something like school is what you make of it. The biggest thing our future leaders need to learn is diversity. All situations are not filled with the best of the best. In life you will come across all different walks of life, if you have not expreienced that in life it will be hard to deal with. I do not teach and coach just for my pension, vacation, and the union. Ultimately my job is to let God's light shine through me to bring others to him. A lot of times my actions will speak louder than my words.

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Ok so what does everyone think the percentage of kids who go to private school "athletes only"do so for sports only.not blasting private schools at all because kids seem to be a bit more focused when in private vs public in my opinion , and I'm not saying they are better be ause there are other drawbacks . If you have a great schedule and an opportunity to prove yourself it's great if you can remain true to yourself and not be be brainwashed .

To thine ownself be true.

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I think the answer to that question can only be answered by the athletes themselves or the coaches. Would the same kids who play sports apply to the same school if they didn't or did the schools "recruit" them for their academic prowess?

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