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Mike Calhoun

The Great Debate - Public vs. Private

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I know there are all kinds of ifs but what percent of kids attend for sports and take it further what percent of say the top 20% of kids attending private schools do so for sports ,

It's a big number I'm sure , in Ky its a bit different in wrestling but football it obviously makes a huge difference .

Private schools get kid from all over the place for football it's insane they recruit themselves it's not so much an outright act but common knowledge although sometimes it is pretty blatant .

How nice would it be if every school had open enrollment there would be a wholes lot less catholic powerhouse teams and a few more SPGs around . A small school in OH that is always amongst the best in the nation .

Open enrollment in a school like Ryle or CC would be insane for wrestling not going to talk about Highlands in football .

There would probably be some smaller schools in ky jump up quick in wrestling I simply do not know the layout of the state as far as who is where .

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For the record, every athlete I know that goes to private school sought them out. In my own situation we sought them out. And since we have been with them and my boys wrestling has improved, several public schools have let it be known in one form or another they would love to have him. So if Trinity is recruiting that hard (and I doubt it), remember public school coaches and boosters do the same. For example, win a State Duel title. Suddenly parents will start looking at you to see if its plausable to go to your school. It happens. There are excellent public schools as well as private. But, my main complaint is with Pistlepete lumping them all together. So, I'm done with this. Its obvious we all think our way is best. Like so many of you spouted on here "diversity".

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Sorry but my Jesus loves everyone there are no special kids ,and despite the fact that i wil get completely destroyed on here for stating it i have seen more favoritism in Private schools than in Public,

Now take religion out of it because no ones god cares who has the most pins touchdowns or baskets or who has the fastest 40 or can score the most goals or who even has the highest ACTs,And everyone knows that private schools cut huge breaks for sports stars so thats a form of recruitment in my book and im sure it is in everyone elses too wether they admitt it or not if it looks like it smells like it and feels all squishy when you step in it well .............it probably is .LOL

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This debate always gets ugggly, not an easy thing to discuss wihout the emotion taking control. I just wish the two big privates were on a more even keel when it comes to number of male students to choose from or field two athletic teams. Seems to be an advantage they have enoyed for years. I personally like em all, privates, publics, home schooled, its all good, go where ever you want just play by the rules.

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Sorry to be the bearer of bad news Stalling, but I can personally name many kids that have been approached by Trinity over the last twenty years. I have had a two under my own roof. I can recall on one occasion when a Trinity Asst. Football Coach and an alumnus approached my kid on a youth football field and outright asked me to enroll him at Trinity. This incident was 10-20 years ago. When I replied that I couldn't afford the tuition, the alumnus said "Don't worry about that. We have ways around it." This is one that I can testify to on a first hand basis. I personally had a Trinity coach recently approach another son of mine (who was attending public middle school) and asked me (in front of at least two Trinity parents and on three separate occasions) to enroll him at Trinity. Again, when I mentioned that money was an issue, he said to "fill out the tuition assistance papers and I will see what I can do about the money." I'm sure in your world this would not qualify as recruiting. In my world it can be nothing but recruiting. I can recall many other such stories that happened on the football field and the wrestling mat. I find it very strange how many of my Trinity friends can tell me about how their kid was also recruited and in some cases paid little or no tuition, but yet you can say "every athlete I know that goes to private school sought them out."

Things are changing folks. I wouldn't want my kid to be stuck in the middle of sanctions with no place to compete.

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Doubt any sanctions occur its the same in every state and has been the same for years actually centuries , being a history buff those that have ,always take from those that do not when they see something they want from

Those who have little to begin with and can't stop them , they use whatever means necessary , hiding it behind good intentions or Religion , as foolish as I am this is common knowledge ,

They should just admitt they recruit either by subtlety or outright invitation those who do not come by free will get recruited if they are good ,why not admitt it and take away most of the negativity that goes along with it ,

I honestly think they enjoy the arguments about recruiting it brings more attention to them and makes some people want to go to them even more , You can't help imagine a group of coaches ads and those in the cliques setting around laughing at everyone complaining because these clowns like thinking everyone is envious of them it strokes their "religious egos "at least the part of it that makes them think they are so much better than everyone , more cash best athletes hoorah we are the best ,very religious indeed .

I would enjoy taking a bunch of foster kids and training them for a few years and demolishing everyone that would be more morally correct and religious in my opinion give to the poor not take the best pay for it an claim victory for your religious school , funny I could do it ,

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Pete, you're still not willing to admit public recruits too. You expect everyone to believe your stories of recruitment, but won't acknowledge the public side of it. Everyone knows my son is going private. Yet, I've had several texts and a few emails along with personal encounters with public school "alumni". Several ps coaches have blasted me on here for favoring private. If you are so insecure about private schools stealing your athletes, that's on you. Bring your own school up to those standards that draws kids away and you won't have anything to worry about. And GOO, for somebody that preaches freedom of choice you sure do have a strong opinion on this subject. You stated you won't allow guns in your house, and Jesus "may or may not have existed". So, to me you sound like a hippy atheist. Yet, I'm still willing to listen to your views. I don't mind debating all day, but when a group of people against my side of the debate continually call me stupid it just shows I'm right and you really don't have a legitimate arguement. Until your really ready to discuss pros and cons, without dismissing the good side of private, I will consider this disussion mute. To be honest, I've enjoyed some of your posts. but now I'm bored with listening to people just stomping their feet and crying with now valid point to make.

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Lol hippy atheist , that's the funniest thing I may have ever read on any message board thanks for the smile Stalling, yeah I I agree some public schools recruit its just not generally as possible and its done differently you usually have to move and there isn't any tuition involved .

Pros and cons to private schools just be wary who you let control your kids destiny time goes quick know why your doing what you are , I sent mine for the education and to prove a point . Not to be in a clique a group and certainly not to be catholic ,and no I am not an atheist hippy more of an anarchist gymrat although had I been a 70s guy rather than an 80s rule type person I would probably have been a big hippy and come on stalling I know you have some hippy in you somewhere bro lol

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Too funny Mpire. I admit it, I do own a pair of sandals. And you're 100% correct on the whole recruiting thing. Also, you can believe I don't think where my boy is going is the end all to beat all. But given our area and school choices its the best option for us. I know you've been down that road lol. I just don't like when someone singles out a supposed bad example and trys to imply all private schools are like that. I know there are good public schools and bad, just like coaches. But I do remember a poster I had in my garage once... it. Said " Its hard to soar with the Eagles when you run with the Turkeys". Lol talk to soon brother.

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Lol are you implying that st Eds recruits ...... Gotcha , I know someone who wants to soar with those eagles but there's to many turkys runnin around to fly that high ..... Now you begin to understand just how my demented twisted mind and dark humor works , ah if the masses only knew me and why things are what they are as you do my friend ,how these boards would really light up , I'm sure many would gloat and some would weep. Oh well be safe buddy

Atheist hippy. I don't even wear sandals " (my toes are ugly and my arches are not flattering )

I understand and agree with your choice to a degree but as funny as it sounds I have seen people sell their soul and turn away from obvious wrongs at places claiming to be morally superior to the majority all to simply not make waves , it's not the anarchist in me that this irritates it's the Christ in me .

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Aww c'mon stalling. My hair ain't that long dude. And I've been to the creation museum in Boone Co. I'm more of a Hair Band rocker of the 80's thou.

I do believe in freedom of choice, but I just want peoples choices to be infromed. I guess my strong feelings came the way yours did. I felt that people were bashing public education. As I stated before, you get out of a high school what you put into it. If you work hard you can recieve a great education from either institute. If you don't work hard then you get kicked out of private and fail in public.

Rock On dude. B)

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Stalling, If you go back and read what I wrote, you will see that in a number of places I separated Trinity from the rest of the private institutions in town. I know nothing about the rest of the private schools in Louisville and made that well known. However, I do know something about Trinity. Now, to address your 73rd post. Yes, I'm sure that public schools do recruit. In fact, that too has happened to my kid. However, recruiting among public schools is one thing. When paid tuition becomes involved, that becomes another matter. Please, don't waste your time telling me it doesn't happen. I know (and I stress the word know) better. You may want to watch the papers over the next few months. The difference in the two will become evident. Anyway, after reading your previous posts it appears that you do not even have a dog in this fight. My beef is with the green and white only.

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Stalling, If you go back and read what I wrote, you will see that in a number of places I separated Trinity from the rest of the private institutions in town. I know nothing about the rest of the private schools in Louisville and made that well known. However, I do know something about Trinity. Now, to address your 73rd post. Yes, I'm sure that public schools do recruit. In fact, that too has happened to my kid. However, recruiting among public schools is one thing. When paid tuition becomes involved, that becomes another matter. Please, don't waste your time telling me it doesn't happen. I know (and I stress the word know) better. You may want to watch the papers over the next few months. The difference in the two will become evident. Anyway, after reading your previous posts it appears that you do not even have a dog in this fight. My beef is with the green and white only.

Well, I'm sorry Pete. I figure since Goo and I made peace, then Ill attempt to make peace with you. We all know recruiting happens on both sides. I never once said it didn't. But you should keep recruiting rules in mind. Your own story said an alumni approached YOU on the football field. If he was not officially connected to the school, and he approached you and not your son, then I'm pretty sure that's legal. A lot of alums do that. But this is the real world. Honestly, if you don't like recruiting with "offers", then you should really hate the NCAA. Are you offended if a private college trys to steal an athlete from say UK? Offering to pay tuition happens, but so does promises of "starting" or being the big man on campus ect... its just a fact of life in sports. How you deal with it is on you. If you're not interested, shrug it off. Remember, some athletes are hoping for better offers to play on a bigger stage. Good luck to you, Pete. With my new found hippy peace I really hope you work out some of the bitterness that is obviously built up.

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Grappler, I agree with the last portion of your post. Some of it. Academically speaking, stats are stats and more private school kids go to college percentage wise than public. Period. With 95 percent of a student body going on to college, you can't argue with that. And yes... I went from a light hearted Jesus joke to Chargers suck. How long am I supposed to take the high road when so many public school geniuses called me "dumb"? After I realized most of those guys worked in public school and coached there, I calmed down a bit. I understand. They have a union and pension and vacation and all that to worry about. The Brothers that teach at our school all have abigger calling. They do it for the love of teaching, mentoring and God. Unlike posters above, who say they feel sorry for them because they don't make much money. So, as I sit and watch another tragic public school massacre unfold on the news, Ill think about the love and brotherhood at our "snooty" private school.

Please note, I said one of the dumbest comments I've seen on here in a while, not a comment made by one of the dumbest people. As for "public school genuises", well you obviously don't know me so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Although I attended and graduated from a public high school, I did graduate from a very reputable, private college institution. By the way, I don't teach or work at a public school so I don't worry about a pension, vacation, etc and the only union I deal with is the one that so many of the employees I manage belong to. I'm a paraprofessional who also coaches simply for the love of the sport, mentoring and God as I try to set a positive example for many of the kids I coach so it's not something that is solely reserved for the "Brothers". My point is simple, God uses people from all walks of life regardless of race, ethnicity, religious affiliation, socio-economic background, etc. You don't have to be affiliated with a private school to do that and I don't think he sees it as a requirement. As for the education part, I agree with most that it's what each individual makes of it. There are plenty of public school kids who excel and plenty of private school kids who eventually drop out due to poor performance or behavior. Labeling a person solely based on whether they attended a private or public school is simply wrong any way you try to spin it. Now for the true reason behind this great debate, recruiting, Jacket Coach is absolutely 100% correct, ALL schools do it in some form or another. You win some and you lose some but regardless, you make the most of what you have and teach / coach the kids you have to the best of your ability to prepare them for life on and off the mat, court or whatever your field of play may be. Sure it sucks when as a coach, you're looking forward to coaching an athlete and they switch schools but if the parents decide to do such because they believe it's in the best interest of their child, how can I argue or complain about that?

Stalling, I understand your frustration and you obviously have a biased opinion based on your comments and obvious affiliation in some way with a private institution whether it be student, alumnus, coach or whatever, but please remember not everyone is "out to get" or has a hatred for private schools. Having said that, I would hope that you would not reciprocate some of that negative behavior such as (even if meant as a joke) saying Chargers suck. My kids might not be the most talented or athletic, but they always give me a strong effort and as a whole, display the type of character and academics that make me proud to have been able to call myself their coach.

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I have not made a comment on this or other threads for awhile now but this is getting absurd. I believe that my grandmother was right, that there are three topics that should not be discussed in public (and this is a public forum) they are politics, religion and s--. These are private topics and everyone has an opinion and you can argue all you want and no one change their minds.

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I have not made a comment on this or other threads for awhile now but this is getting absurd. I believe that my grandmother was right, that there are three topics that should not be discussed in public (and this is a public forum) they are politics, religion and s--. These are private topics and everyone has an opinion and you can argue all you want and no one change their minds.

I have to disagree, these are topics that need to be discussed, yes there is absurdity in all of them. Just look at our government today and the corruption of special interest and the greed of corporation, do we really need to sit back and be quiet, or should we speak up and ask for a real change. As far as religion, I do not force my views on anyone, but I do publicly praise GOD and express my beliefs, we all probably need more of that in our lives. Dont know what the 3rd thing is you were implying with the s--, but we will never all agree, but we can be civil and choose to disagree (I cant even get the ppl under my roof to agree what the thermostat should be set at, lol) if you start at the begining of this thread and read all the way thru, you will see that there are just as many points that the two sides agree on, more so than disagree.
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Please note, I said one of the dumbest comments I've seen on here in a while, not a comment made by one of the dumbest people. As for "public school genuises", well you obviously don't know me so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Although I attended and graduated from a public high school, I did graduate from a very reputable, private college institution. By the way, I don't teach or work at a public school so I don't worry about a pension, vacation, etc and the only union I deal with is the one that so many of the employees I manage belong to. I'm a paraprofessional who also coaches simply for the love of the sport, mentoring and God as I try to set a positive example for many of the kids I coach so it's not something that is solely reserved for the "Brothers". My point is simple, God uses people from all walks of life regardless of race, ethnicity, religious affiliation, socio-economic background, etc. You don't have to be affiliated with a private school to do that and I don't think he sees it as a requirement. As for the education part, I agree with most that it's what each individual makes of it. There are plenty of public school kids who excel and plenty of private school kids who eventually drop out due to poor performance or behavior. Labeling a person solely based on whether they attended a private or public school is simply wrong any way you try to spin it. Now for the true reason behind this great debate, recruiting, Jacket Coach is absolutely 100% correct, ALL schools do it in some form or another. You win some and you lose some but regardless, you make the most of what you have and teach / coach the kids you have to the best of your ability to prepare them for life on and off the mat, court or whatever your field of play may be. Sure it sucks when as a coach, you're looking forward to coaching an athlete and they switch schools but if the parents decide to do such because they believe it's in the best interest of their child, how can I argue or complain about that?

Stalling, I understand your frustration and you obviously have a biased opinion based on your comments and obvious affiliation in some way with a private institution whether it be student, alumnus, coach or whatever, but please remember not everyone is "out to get" or has a hatred for private schools. Having said that, I would hope that you would not reciprocate some of that negative behavior such as (even if meant as a joke) saying Chargers suck. My kids might not be the most talented or athletic, but they always give me a strong effort and as a whole, display the type of character and academics that make me proud to have been able to call myself their coach.

One of the best posts I have ever read. This thread can be closed now.

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Charger Coach, you have valid points. All of which were already posted in this thread in one form or another. And you and I could have had an honest discussion of pros and cons. But then you had to go and call me dumb. Don't try to hide behind the old " I didn't call YOU dumb, just your idea" remark. That's like a guy telling his wife "honey I didn't say YOU were fat, just your a**." Come on. You and a couple others threw the "dumb" and "stupid" remark out there way before I ever snapped back with ANY name calling about your team. The truth is I have respect for any kid that laces em up and steps out there to get it done. But to say or infer or otherwise imply someone is dumb because you don't agree with them... well, let's just say its like school in the summertime. No class. And I don't think everyone has it out for private schools. Just all you public school coaches/fans on here that blasted them. I actually just left baseball practice where I coach a bunch of public school kids. My sons best friends all go to his old public school. He's over there fishing with them right now. But to read most of the posts against private schools, you'd think I would never allow my son to hang out with "lowly" ps kids. My point all along was to counter point the pros and cons of the two systems. If Trinity is the devil to Pete, he's only one guy. I'm sure for every storey of a kid that private/public didn't work out for there are stories of two more that it did. We need both. Both recruit in some fashion. Both have pros and cons. I thought public was all about diversity? Well, if all schools are public with only one way then you no longer have diversity and choices. Sorry I'm rambling, still hyped up from baseball.

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I would disagree with that statement. But say that for SOME people of the catholic faith there is no topic more important than religion. So say that for everyone is way off. I deal with the public on a daily basis and am surprised at how people react on a daily basis to certain situations, nothing to do with sports or schools but rather adult life in general. Many are the first to complain and cry about what is going on until the get something that they feel is fair to them. Usually it means that they get something for free out of my company. I go into peoples houses all the time and see religious artifacts and slogans up and yet the are quick to curse and complain when something comes up that they personally have to take care of that I will not do. Again this isn't for everyone but the same goes for school. Not everyone sends their kids to catholic school because of that. My kids are the first generation on my wifes side to not go to catholic school for 5 generations. But her and her brothers don't care for the attitudes that the catholic school institution has right now in combination with the rising tuition costs. And like many people have said, neither side is going to change their mind about how they feel but it's just a shame that they get away with it like they do.

For people of the catholic faith there is no topic more important than religion, and the public schools have alienated us.There is no title my children can achieve that is greater than being in the state of grace.I have used the examples of the life of Christ to challenge my children.Work like it is all up to you and pray like it is all up to God is our motto.I do not push it on anyone but I dare anyone to try and take it from us.Public schools can help individuals achieve great things, but if we have to pretend that God doesnt exist while we are there being oppressed,sensored,forced to deny our faith,then we must go to catholic schools if we can afford it.For the record I went to public schools as did my wife,we do not fit into most of the private school stereo types that were posted in this thread.Our ultimate goal is eternity with God and along the way we will be in the world competing in sports,and seeking jobs but hopefully obeying a set of standards that keeps us from being of the world. This is my opinion take or leave it but this is why I would choose a catholic school for my children .

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A catholic who says that getting their way is more important than there faith is giving poor example of what being catholic is.Owning items symbolizing religion does not make one religious,but knowing and trying to obey every law of the church.Let Christ be our example and bear our crosses patientlybeing a good example to all who are watching,and when we start feeling sorry for ourselves and set bad examples ,we make resolution to do better next time.Using one catholics bad actions to stereotype all catholics obviously lacks sounds judgement. A catholic who says that their faith is not the most important issue in their life does not know their faith.

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Just for the record, I care and respect any and all religions that believe in Jesus Christ and/or God. With that said I must point out, again, that this thread has nothing to do with spiritual beliefs. Stalling, KHSAA rules state that any coach, school official or person associated with a school that was sent with the intent to recruit is in violation. However, my post stated that an alumnus and an asst. football coach approached me. This pair approached my son first. Yes, we may not all agree, but deep down inside I think we all know that recruiting the best talent from more than one state and using that talent to compete on a public school level is ludicrous. Then to be proud of such an accomplishment is laughable. My suggestions still stand....enforce a one year suspension from athletics for any student that wants to transfer to a private institution or take the private school athletics to a higher level. Problem and debate solved.

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