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Mike Calhoun

The Great Debate - Public vs. Private

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Stand-up, I hope they stay too. I wish that parents and their kids could see through the line of bologna that one of Louisville's private schools feeds us. I have heard that North is a superior school in academics. They are also on the rise in athletics, if the athletes will stay and wrestle (or play football) where they originally learned the sport. Where's the loyality? Trust me parents, they're not worth it.

What line of bologna is it you are suggesting about private schools in Louisville. I'm not from Trinity, but come on, 3rd in state at wrestling, 1st in state at football (3rd in nation), 1st in basketball. Great education and an alumni association that lasts a lifetime and surpasses any public school in the state No one at any private school is going after either one of these kids. Do you even know the situation? I know that one of these two did not originally learn the sport at N.O. as you suggest. I say if parents can afford to give their children better oppurtunities, then why not. Nothing against North, it is a wonderful school, but dont hate on a private institution "just because". Ultimately the decision will be up to the parents and their kids with no influence from any private school. They train togethor so most likely if one leaves the other will follow, mainly because they are close in weight and ability. Either way they are great wrestlers, and great kids and will continue to be in the future, best of luck to them.

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I'll tell you what the bologna is. The belief that private schools are academically superior. There is no way that is true. In private schools they only get the more academically geared kids. Public schools not only offer more diversity in classes, but they teach EVERYONE. They don't have the luxury to kick a kid out if they don't meet academic standards or keep them from attending their school because of their academic standards.

If you need any help at all. Such as special education help. Most private schools cannot help and the kids end up going to the public school and succeeding where they would have failed at the private school.

Sorry that is my soap box.

However if you attend a private school because of religious regions that’s a whole different scenario and it is your best option.

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GOO I can only speak for the schools in Jefferson County, and I will tell you that even though public schools can not kick people out, they might as well. There is a line drawn in the public schools and if you are not on the right side of the line then you are left way behind. After the separation has been established, very remedial (elementary level) work is given to students just to "get them thru" high school. This benefits no one, I have seen this first hand in the public school system here. Out of the 22 high schools in Jefferson County only a handful even come close to the standards set by any of the private schools, and yes if you are not a part of a cluster to schools like Male, Butler, Manual, Ballard, they can and will turn you away, they also only accept academically geared kids, and I know for a fact that my son was approached by faculty at some of these public schools for athletic reasons only (not once by any private school). I also know that the private schools here take extra steps to prepare kids for college and offer as much as a diverse experience for kids attending. 99% maturation rate to college says alot when some public schools are'nt even graduating 60% of their kids. If you are speaking outside of Jefferson County I have no argument because I have no familiarity with any of those school systems.

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I know of boys who were tested for learning disabilities at ST.X so the teachers could alter the way they teach them and their schedules are changed to help them progress where they are behind.I was told by a Trinity teacher that they have programs to help the students who dont test well on entrance exams.

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I for one can speak on the public situation i was in remedial classes and by far i was not givin elementary work to just be passed thru as you say they do, i received more work because of my situation in the learning process and now i have been graduated from those classes and it has helped me alot i know at my school moore traditional we have a class called MAP which is called moore advisory period which happens every wed. for 30-40 minutes and i am in a class with other students with my learning disability and we talk out how we are progressing in our ILP (individual learning plan) and iep (individual education plan) i have adhd and ocd that affect my learning in class and public school sets you up for succes, dont get me wrong yes there are some students that couldnt care less about school but what can i say its a PUBLIC school, i can not comment on private schools very much because i do not attend them

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"In addition to Trinity’s academic programs, our Learning Support Program offers academic assistance to students with documented learning differences." This is straight off of Trinity's website. Anyone can go to ky.gov and see the report cards of the schools in your local area. Moore was only 54.61% proficient or distinguished in reading (goal is 74.66%), 45.63% in math (goal 69.3%), with a graduation rate of 62.06% (goal 86.75%). Moore is one of the schools in my home cluster, along with schools like Seneca, J-Town, Fern Creek, Southern, which all have similar scores. Dont believe it then just look for yourself, school report cards are public record, they also contain info such as number of arrestable assaults, drug crimes, and other information. I'm not saying that you cant recieve a good education in the public school system, yes you can, but private schools are also a great place to recieve an education and I'm glad that they can expel students who bring drugs to school when others cant.

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public schools can kick kids out and send them to alt. schools like liberty,kennedy, jeff. co., buechel, and buckner(oc school)

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public schools can kick kids out and send them to alt. schools like liberty,kennedy, jeff. co., buechel, and buckner(oc school)

You are correct, I was only referencing something I had read on the school report card where they had 30 drug offenses but zero expulsions. Sorry I didnt make that clear. I know at X it is zero tolerance for drugs, so 30 offenses would've = 30 expulsions. mat-king I am glad that you took what they offered you and bettered yourself, that is awesome, I too went to a public school, Seneca, and when I spoke of elementary work, I seen it first hand, things like two digit addition equations, it was part of a program called Seneca Academy, it was a way to graduate kids who might not have otherwise. It in no way benefited the kids except for the fact they recieved a diploma ( with little education), it seemed more like a way to boost numbers for graduation rates than a way to help educate those involved.

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What line of bologna is it you are suggesting about private schools in Louisville. I'm not from Trinity, but come on, 3rd in state at wrestling, 1st in state at football (3rd in nation), 1st in basketball. Great education and an alumni association that lasts a lifetime and surpasses any public school in the state No one at any private school is going after either one of these kids. Do you even know the situation? I know that one of these two did not originally learn the sport at N.O. as you suggest. I say if parents can afford to give their children better oppurtunities, then why not. Nothing against North, it is a wonderful school, but dont hate on a private institution "just because". Ultimately the decision will be up to the parents and their kids with no influence from any private school. They train togethor so most likely if one leaves the other will follow, mainly because they are close in weight and ability. Either way they are great wrestlers, and great kids and will continue to be in the future, best of luck to them.

The bologna which I write about is the belief that the green and white education is superior or that your kid will become a top wrestler in the state of KY or that he will become President or any other line of bologna that is handed out. As for education, the green and white has at least six levels of education to offer. Any school can make any student look good if you slow it down enough. As for the superior alumni that Mike claims, it is a good alumni association. However, not superior to a few of the public school alumni or booster associations which I have been associated. I will admit, they have "one of the winningest" athletic programs money can buy. Let's be honest for a minute. Who's paying for it? I'll tell you. The parents who are paying full tuition are the ones paying for the top football team or the 3rd place wrestling team (by the way, your money bought 3rd place behind not one, but two public schools. High price to pay for 3rd place). If your kid enrolls there, he will likely become nothing more than a practice player for the athlete the school really wanted. Parents, if you believe for a minute they won't replace your kid with a better athlete next year if one comes along, better think again. If your kid gets hurt, you will likely lose your scholarship (I know, they don't offer scholarships, they offer financial assistance to fast, athletic football players). Mike, I can't speak about your kid being approached and I don't doubt it. This is the present situation in Jefferson Co and it is a direct result of the tactics of at least one private school. I can also say that three of my sons were also approached over the years by the green and white and offered "financial assistance." I didn't see the green and white on W. Broadway offering under privledged children financial assistance. My sons were all approached for athletic reasons.

Can anyone please tell me what is accomplished by "acquiring" the better athletes in the state or states (notice I didn't say county), and defeating the other area schools who are trying to keep priorities straight. Don't get me wrong, I love to win, but I won't try to win at all costs. I admire the teams who can win with level playing fields. For those of you who make all the excuses for attending the green and white, good luck. But you're not getting a better education than you would get at Ballard, Eastern, Male or Manual or a few other area schools. So what is the true reason you want to attend school there?

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I sent my sons to St.X because of the moral emphasis the coaches at rivercity and St.X make a high priority in their program.We are allowed to mention God when giving a young man advice and we can pray as team.The harm done to public schools by taking the Pledge of Allegiance and prayer out of schools is obvious .The right to demand a higher moral standard from students is why I pay for my sons education.

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Like I said, I am not affiliated with Trinity. You speak of kids getting replaced if a better one comes along, um sorry but I'm pretty sure that happens everywhere ie. wrestle offs (CC is a good example). Public or private, thats the nature of the beast. I know at X that all financial assistance money is handled by an outsourced company in Ohio that only bases their decisions on income, household size, and money available. No where on the financial assistance application does it ask what sport does your child play. Also seems that all the schools you named are pretty much the same public schools I had named, the list does not go much further than that (check the report cards). These schools even though public, do turn away students, and believe it or not may take into special consideration for certain athletes. I know of quite a few underprivildged students who have attended private institutions, but no you're right, they were not approached, nor were the ones who could afford it. I dont know who approached your sons but I know alot of young champion athletes who have never been by private but only by public. Alot of the rec football youth leagues play at high schools and there are always people from the schools there. I dont know who fed you the bologna, but you got to do whats best for your kid, if it was a former alum bragging because most alum support the school, then that has nothing to do with the school itself.

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I'm done, enough said. Like my son said "wrestling has made me who I am today". Not only because of the sport, but like workhard has said, because of the morality and ethics instilled into these young men by the wonderful coaches at programs like River City and St. X. There is a standard set at these programs, not athletically, but ethically. My son wants the discipline set at X, he asked to attend the school. If you ever see any of the students from these schools, just ask them, that is where the true answers lies.

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As anyone who reads my post can clearly read, my problem is not with St. X. I cannot make any claims about St. X stretching any ethics or rules. I do however levy claims against the green and white. I personally know how they acquire their athletes. Yes, sometimes athletes are replaced in public school when a better athlete comes along. However, public schools do not try to deceive a child and his unsuspecting parents and try to make them believe their son is the next big thing, only to replace him when another recruit comes along. Now, the first kid becomes a practice player for the second kid. As the green and white knows all too well, the first kid is now unavailable to play for the competition. They win in more than one way and the first kid loses in every way. Meanwhile, mom and dad are still paying through the nose. A good friend of mine who has sent three sons through that school once told me, "If my family were not Catholic and we were not EXPECTED to be there, I would not send my son there. It's a lot of money just to belong to a feel good club." I think change is in the wind. The majority of people have had enough. I personally couldn't feel good about winning with a team that acquired its players without the same set of rules as the competition. As my Dad used to say, "Sure, it's easy to shoot a bird sitting on a wire or catch fish in a barrell, but what have you really accomplished?"

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I just want to say real quick i am not bagging on private school they have tools and use them and it works and they do great but i am just saying that you can receive just the same education if you work hard at public schools( just wanted to throw that in there because of others bagging on private schools because i have no problem with them)

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The difference I see is that the private schools dont really let a lot of kids just get by like you can easily do in public schools. I went to Pleasure Ridge Park, pushed myself, took honors classes and got a pretty good education. At college I was in the same classes as the kids that came from private schools and my bachelors degree is the same as theirs as well. In high school I seen a lot of kids do the minimum and get passed through. I would always joke on the people that would flunk out because all I figured you HAVE to do is show up to pass. From what I have heard, this does not happen as much in private schools like Trinity and X.

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I sent my sons to St.X because of the moral emphasis the coaches at rivercity and St.X make a high priority in their program.We are allowed to mention God when giving a young man advice and we can pray as team.The harm done to public schools by taking the Pledge of Allegiance and prayer out of schools is obvious .The right to demand a higher moral standard from students is why I pay for my sons education.

That can be done in public schools as well. I coach at a public school and we pray after practices, meets, etc sometimes. I frequently mention God when giving advice or trying to motivate as well. I've invited Coach Parks to come speak multiple times at practices about FCA and give his testimony. Those things can be done at public schools. I guess the difference is that I'm not really concerned or worried about being reprimanded for it although I don't think that would happen where I coach. Anyway, I think the biggest advantage to private vs. public is networking. Most kids don't understand how important that is while they're in high school, but find out how important it really is when they apply for jobs after college.

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Good luck to you Coach Shofner wherever your path may lead you, and like always thank you Ranger, your input is always looked forward to, and wrestling against your team has always been an exciting challenge.

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The difference I see is that the private schools dont really let a lot of kids just get by like you can easily do in public schools. I went to Pleasure Ridge Park, pushed myself, took honors classes and got a pretty good education. At college I was in the same classes as the kids that came from private schools and my bachelors degree is the same as theirs as well. In high school I seen a lot of kids do the minimum and get passed through. I would always joke on the people that would flunk out because all I figured you HAVE to do is show up to pass. From what I have heard, this does not happen as much in private schools like Trinity and X.

old140, I see what you are trying to say. This is a big misconception with Trinity. The general public belives that Trinity has a great academic program because their students all seem to have great grades and in their upper, higher achieving levels they are as good as any of the public schools, but not better. The truth is that Trinity has at least six different levels of academics. The highest achievers to the lowest. Most public high schools have three or four. The difference as I see it is that public schools do not invent lower standards just to cater to the low achieving athlete. Before anybody goes off on a tangent, I realize that there are many high and medium achieving athletes in all schools. My point, Trinity has invented a very low academic level to help the kid that can run fast, carry a ball or wrestle. On this particular subject, their priorities are skewed. What is the lower achieving athlete to do in the real world after Trinity is done with him?

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All I gotta say is....wow? You believe that???

What line of bologna is it you are suggesting about private schools in Louisville. I'm not from Trinity, but come on, 3rd in state at wrestling, 1st in state at football (3rd in nation), 1st in basketball. Great education and an alumni association that lasts a lifetime and surpasses any public school in the state No one at any private school is going after either one of these kids. Do you even know the situation? I know that one of these two did not originally learn the sport at N.O. as you suggest. I say if parents can afford to give their children better oppurtunities, then why not. Nothing against North, it is a wonderful school, but dont hate on a private institution "just because". Ultimately the decision will be up to the parents and their kids with no influence from any private school. They train togethor so most likely if one leaves the other will follow, mainly because they are close in weight and ability. Either way they are great wrestlers, and great kids and will continue to be in the future, best of luck to them.

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Like I said, I am not affiliated with Trinity. You speak of kids getting replaced if a better one comes along, um sorry but I'm pretty sure that happens everywhere ie. wrestle offs (CC is a good example). Public or private, thats the nature of the beast. I know at X that all financial assistance money is handled by an outsourced company in Ohio that only bases their decisions on income, household size, and money available. No where on the financial assistance application does it ask what sport does your child play. Also seems that all the schools you named are pretty much the same public schools I had named, the list does not go much further than that (check the report cards). These schools even though public, do turn away students, and believe it or not may take into special consideration for certain athletes. I know of quite a few underprivildged students who have attended private institutions, but no you're right, they were not approached, nor were the ones who could afford it. I dont know who approached your sons but I know alot of young champion athletes who have never been by private but only by public. Alot of the rec football youth leagues play at high schools and there are always people from the schools there. I dont know who fed you the bologna, but you got to do whats best for your kid, if it was a former alum bragging because most alum support the school, then that has nothing to do with the school itself.

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The difference I see is that the private schools dont really let a lot of kids just get by like you can easily do in public schools. I went to Pleasure Ridge Park, pushed myself, took honors classes and got a pretty good education. At college I was in the same classes as the kids that came from private schools and my bachelors degree is the same as theirs as well. In high school I seen a lot of kids do the minimum and get passed through. I would always joke on the people that would flunk out because all I figured you HAVE to do is show up to pass. From what I have heard, this does not happen as much in private schools like Trinity and X.

You are absolutely right. They don't let them get by. If the kid gets out of hand they get rid of him. Unless he is an athlete that contributes. Same thing at those public schools that are basically private schools. Male, Manual

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Pisstlpete--Obviously you are a very jealous, bitter man. You take a post that was intended to give Ranger a good natured jab for not giving North Oldham wrestlers their props, and you take the opportunity to rant about some deep seeded animosity towards Trinity?! The point that was lost in the thread after you skewed its path was very articulately brought back to the surface by Mr. Calhoun stating that faith and instilling moral compass is a very important factor when deciding where to send his sons. You never once took into consideration that the families of the boys in question even brought athletics into their decision making process. You even went as far as questioning loyalty as if wrestling is the only thing that is important in a high school career. Your myopic view of Trinity is very sad, but it has made me want to further evaluate Trinity and St. X for my son. If jealousy and bitterness is spewed to your athletes that you coach, I would rather pay my $$ and have the Trinity or St. X coaches tell my son that people will be gunning for him because he attends such a school, and to accept the challenge and rise above the vitriol. Mr. Calhoun, I appreciate your take on this and you may have inadvertently "recruited" another boy into the Catholic school system. If the boys in question ultimately attend Trinity and do wrestle, I hope they have great high school careers...and I hope the same for the North Oldham wrestling program.

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I'm happy for you Fireman. However, if you really read the thread, which you either did not or want to charge into some misguided attempt to defend the offenders, you will see that my first post was to let the NOHS coach know that his school and program was doing a great job and to ask about the rumor. You obviously have a hidden agenda here. My guess is that you are somehow associated with one of the schools you mentioned and want to detract from my posts. As far as animosity is concerned, you bet. Whenever Trinity has to play by the same rules as everybody else, maybe the animosity the general pubic feels toward them will begin to subside. Trinity feels some sort of great accomplishment in playing the KY football or KY basketball or KY wrestling championships with the athletes that they chase all over various states and counties. I say BIG DEAL. What have they really accomplished? Please refer to my earlier reference about catching fish in a barrell. Trinity should be ashamed if they ever lose ANY competition, but they do. I want to again state that my views DO NOT include St. X as an unethical rule stretcher. I do not know much about them. I can even go as far to say that St. X seems to have ethics and priorities where this topic is concerned. I can't say that for the green and white athletics. Their version has become perverse. If anyone wants a fine example of priorites in a private school, take a look at CAL. My kids did not attend CAL but I wish they did. Maybe Trinity should take a tour. I did and what I found was God and academics and character came first. fireman, I hope your kid does attend Trinity. I can then read your posts in a few years and remind you of today. Good luck.

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Whatsoever you did for the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me (Mt 25:40)

Trinity is committed to the values of compassion and personal responsibility. The long tradition of Catholic social teaching and action is grounded in the belief of the dignity of all humans and that people have a right and a duty to participate in society, seeking together the common good and well-being of all, especially the poor and vulnerable. We strive to guide students toward a path of compassion, responsibility and morality – this is why we place such an emphasis on service projects. Trinity hosts school-wide projects that benefit the Red Cross, Dare to Care, Catholic Relief Services and many more. In addition, students have an individual service requirement for each class.

Above is from Trinity's website. Yea, admitting to harboring animosity towards a school that stands for compassion and personal responsibility definitely isn't misplaced bitterness at all. The graduating class logged over 20,000 hours of community service...that same community in which you are blessed enough to call home. CAL is an awsome school, but what if the boys are Catholic?! Why wouldn't they want to attend Trinity soley based on that? You continue to wallow and moan about the sports when it is only a small part of why families choose Trinity. Trinity and St. X's reputations stand on their own merrit...sports aside. I have no hidden agenda. It's pretty straight forward--you bashed a very well respected school, a father of St. X boys explained the reasoning behind sending his kids to a Catholic high school, you separated Trinity from St. X, I am explaining why a family would choose Trinity. I firmly believe that public schools are great in many cases, but will not stand idly by and let some uninformed, misguided, bitter man regurgitate anecdotal stories as fact and not call you out. Did YOU not read the earlier post stating that all financial aid applicaitons are sent to a third party out of state? I'm fairly certain that there is no box to check or line to fill in a 40 time or vertical jump hight in the applications. As an FYI--I'm not a Trinity grad, nor do I have any skin in the game one way or the other. I just disapprove of such negativity...especially since you claim God, academics, and character are important to you. Hypocrite comes to mind, and sounds very appropriate.

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