Weight Class Change Petition

[Marc Petrucelli 0]

The following is a petition to change the High School wrestling weights back to the old weights of 2010 - 11 season. I presented the petition to a group of coaches at a recent camp and I got 43 coaches signatures from seven (7) different states all supporting the petition. I got ZERO coaches who supported the new weight change. My Goal is to get 15,000 coaches / officials and wrestling fans signatures from across the country to sign the petition, so if you support the following petition please email me confirming that you support the petition with the following information;

School District / College / Club State Your Name Coach / Fan / Official

Norchester PA M Petrucelli COACH

My Email Address - PETRO330@aol.com

Or make it easy log onto link and enter information:

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?hl=en_US&formkey=dGlfNE1ZSG9aRE5Nb3lhZHJ6Xzh3emc6MQ#gid=0

I will be posting this petition on as many Wrestling Forums as I possibly can and if you are in support please do the same and if you are at a camp and or Tournament please print it out the petition and get signatures to right the wrong the NHFS did to the sport.

ALSO I will NOT POST any Coaches / Officials / FANS Name on any medium who support this Petition. I will present this to the PIAA and NHFS Board when I get to my Goal of signatures and email confirmations

NHFS High School Weight Class Change Petition

July 25, 2001

We the coaches of the great sport of wrestling petition the NHFS to right the wrong that they did in changing the High School weight classifications and change them back to the same classes that were in place for the 2010 - 11 wrestling season as follows;

103,112,119,125,130,135,140,145,152,160,171,189,215,285

We petition to change the weight classification as stated above based upon the simple common sense facts as follows;

1. The Data you gathered (weight) from wrestlers to establish the new weight classes is flawed, if the changes were made based upon the raw weight that the kids weighed in at without taking the % body fat of the wrestlers into consideration then why have weight certifications (OPC)? Your analysis should be based upon what wrestlers were certified to wrestle at and in most case where they will compete at.

2. The following is a much better analysis done from analyzing 71 PA district 1 rosters encompassing 2149 wrestlers based upon the weight that they were certified to compete. This is based upon the old weight classes.

Break down by weight class

Old Weight Class # Of wrestlers % Of Total wrestlers

103 140 6.5%

112 152 7.1% 103 – 119 = 22.6%

119 194 9%

125 192 8.9%

130 178 8.3%

135 169 7.9% 125-145 = 43%

140 198 9.2%

145 188 8.7%

152 159 7.4%

160 146 6.8% 152 – 171 = 21.4%

171 149 7%

189 132 6%

215 100 4.6% 189 – 285 = 13%

285 51 2.4%

The true wrestling weights (OPC Certified) dictate that eliminating a weight class in the middle is truly ridiculous and defies common sense.

3. These changes hurt the quality of wrestling, by adding a upper weight class at 195 lbs you are now providing a varsity opportunity to a Football player who is most likely a 1st or 2nd year wrestler who was recruited off the football field to fill this spot. Adding a upper weight also has us competing with Basketball to recruit a Football player to fill the upper weights

4. By eliminating a middle weight class at 135 you are taking a varsity opportunity away from a wrestler who has been dedicated to the sport, put the time in (many since first grade) and deserves and opportunity at wrestling in High School. By eliminating the 135 lb class you are going against one of the biggest lessons that we should instill in our wrestlers you get out of the sport what you put into it, which is also a life lesson.

5. By adding a upper weight class High School wrestling now has more upper weight classes than college wrestling;

New HS Upper Weights - 182,195,220 and Hwt.

College Upper Weights - 184, 197 and Hwt

This truly defies logic or promotes obesity in High School by having one more upper weight class in High School than in College.

We the Coaches hope you review the above information and reconsider your changes and put the old weight classes back in place for the betterment of the Sport and to encourage young wrestlers to continue to work hard at both the sport and in life and that their hard work can and will be rewarded.

Thank You

[oldgrappler 9]

You can go to the link - it only takes a few seconds. Good luck!

[fireplug 2]

It sounds as if there is a little man bias here. Suggesting smaller weight classes have better wrestling is totally an opinion and unfair to heavier weights. They have worked on this for years and if they didn't believe it was best for the sport, it would not have gone through. And also the first and second year football player has as much right to a spot as a person who has many years in the sport. This just sounds like a ridiculous waste of time. It's changed, now let's move on

[grappler-of-old 44]

I agree fireplug (and I was a small guy)

When they changed the wt. classes in the 90's to clump the middle wt's the thought was that kids would not cut as much wt. because they would not have to loose 7 lbs to get to a lower wt. class.

Just the opposite happened. Wrestlers loose more wt. because they see the lower wt. class as more obtainable.

We have been arguing for another wt. class in the upper wts for years. Why should a kid who weighs 230 wrestle someone who is 285, or loose 15 lbs to wrestle 215. No other wt. class has to give up 50 lbs.

People just don't like change. If I had my way we would go back to the 12 wt. classes they had when I wreslted.

98,105,112,119,126,132,138,145,155,167,185,Hwt(max 250)

[Ranger123 43]

I agree fireplug (and I was a small guy)

When they changed the wt. classes in the 90's to clump the middle wt's the thought was that kids would not cut as much wt. because they would not have to loose 7 lbs to get to a lower wt. class.

Just the opposite happened. Wrestlers loose more wt. because they see the lower wt. class as more obtainable.

We have been arguing for another wt. class in the upper wts for years. Why should a kid who weighs 230 wrestle someone who is 285, or loose 15 lbs to wrestle 215. No other wt. class has to give up 50 lbs.

People just don't like change. If I had my way we would go back to the 12 wt. classes they had when I wreslted.

98,105,112,119,126,132,138,145,155,167,185,Hwt(max 250)

Come on goo, be consistent. With the old weights a kid who weighs 200 would have to lose 15 pounds to wrestle 185 or wrestle someone who is 250. Changing the weights is a completely idiotic approach to dealing with weight loss. Kids will lose weight no matter what the weights are.

And just to share my 2 cents, I don't like the change. The talent is deeper and the quality of wrestling is higher at the lightweights than at the heavies; plain and simple. GOO, I think I've heard you say this as well or something to this effect. This is not making a judgement on the big guys, but it is more a function of the previous argument that many of these lightweight guys have been competing for years and a number of the big guys have been recruited from the football team to fill a gap.

[NKYFan 2]

Ouch Ranger! I hope your Hvywt doesn't read your post.

[Ranger123 43]

Ouch Ranger! I hope your Hvywt doesn't read your post.

2 points of response to that. First, I'm not talking about every heavyweight or every lightweight. There are exceptions to most rules. But second, generally the facts are the facts. "My" heavy is a very good wrestler; one of the best in the state. But let's talk about the kids who are 15th to 20th best in the state. That's where the breakdown happens; down the line. If we are only concerned with the top line guys then we might as well just go with the college weights so these guys are making their weights for the next level. Instead this is high school and about developing not just on the mat, but as people. So it should be about getting the opportunities for the kids that are wrestlers, not building the weights and hoping the big guys will come or that our overweight society will create them. Because in my time I have seen just as many holes in the upper weights as the lower weights.

[grappler-of-old 44]

My point with my last statement was that nobody likes change. And I didn't when they added 13 wt. classes and changed them from what I was use to.

I did however like the addition of the 215 whenever it happened. (All the years seem to run together now)

I do like the new wt. classes however. We needed another upper wt. class.

Just because KY has less talent in the upper wt. classes does not mean other states do as well. In Ky our upper wt. classes are weaker because of our one-minded or undereducated football coaches and their attitudes toward wrestling.

Maybe just maybe the addition of an upper wt. class will help change the minds of those football coaches because their football players won't have to loose wt.

Hey just remember I'm no genius. And I get that sometimers disease sometimes.

GOO out.

[Ranger123 43]

Good point to consider other states. BUT, in all honesty, I don't care about the depth (or lack thereof) in other states. All I know is that I don't see this aiding the growth of wrestling in our state any time soon. It very likely decreases our competitiveness outside the state. And I see no impact on the attitude of those narrow minded football coaches.

Speaking of football, as I get more and more coaching experience at the youth level, I am amazed at superior tackling ability of wrestlers. And I have heard that from our middle school football coach as well. Wrestlers are consistently his best tacklers. As a result we get a ton of support from him. But high school coaches are convinced they are the center of the universe and nothing outside their weight room can help a kid in the off season.

[paulham 4]

yep, and our football program has never been anygood... and why not just have 15 weight classes? that would also prevent ties in dual meets where you have to look at criteria

[grappler-of-old 44]

Ranger: I mention other states because it is Federation rules which include almost all of the united states. I believe wrestling is stronger now that most if not all states us federation rules and not going out on their own. I still remember when Ohio and Indiana had unlimed Hwt and KY was max 250 and Ohio had an extra wt. class 175 which Ky did not. Made things a littel confusing for duals and tourneaments.

Paulham: Adding another wt. class would just further hurt the already struggling programs.

when a school looks at a program and notices that they are only filling maybe close to half a team and then you add another wt. class and make it even harder for the small/stuggling schools it just gives the school more reason to drop the team.

Also those small schools will have an even harder time competing in both duals and tounaments. Just makes the bigger schools stronger and smaller schools weaker.

How many other sports add more players to a starting lineup? Football has had 11 for a long time. Baseball has nine basketball has 5. I don't know about the other sports, but when was the last time another sport added another player to thier starting linup?

[Ranger123 43]

Ranger: I mention other states because it is Federation rules which include almost all of the united states. I believe wrestling is stronger now that most if not all states us federation rules and not going out on their own. I still remember when Ohio and Indiana had unlimed Hwt and KY was max 250 and Ohio had an extra wt. class 175 which Ky did not. Made things a littel confusing for duals and tourneaments.

Paulham: Adding another wt. class would just further hurt the already struggling programs.

when a school looks at a program and notices that they are only filling maybe close to half a team and then you add another wt. class and make it even harder for the small/stuggling schools it just gives the school more reason to drop the team.

Also those small schools will have an even harder time competing in both duals and tounaments. Just makes the bigger schools stronger and smaller schools weaker.

How many other sports add more players to a starting lineup? Football has had 11 for a long time. Baseball has nine basketball has 5. I don't know about the other sports, but when was the last time another sport added another player to thier starting linup?

Okay goo, I was hearing you until your last point. Comparing the adding a weight class to baseball, basketball, or football adding a position is not even close. We are talking about wrestling here. Not a game where kids in specified positions play with balls. Come on man.

pham - ties will happen no matter what number of weight classes we have (once you get above 1). With an odd number the tiebreaker criteria can be simplified (only by using most matches won). After that (most pins, techs, first takedowns, whatever), number of weights is irrelevant.

[grappler-of-old 44]

OK ranger when was the last time an event was added to track or another runner added to the cross country team ,or another tennis player to tennis (I have no idea how they keep team score in tennis) I can go on ;swimming, golf, bowling (some states have it).

Maybe some have made changes I don't know. My point is we don't need more wt. classes. Changing wt. classes and the number of wt. classes are major changes. We have already had several in the last 20-25 years. 4 wt. class changes and twice added wt classes. What other sport has had that many major changes in 20-25 years?

[Ranger123 43]

OK ranger when was the last time an event was added to track or another runner added to the cross country team ,or another tennis player to tennis (I have no idea how they keep team score in tennis) I can go on ;swimming, golf, bowling (some states have it).

Maybe some have made changes I don't know. My point is we don't need more wt. classes. Changing wt. classes and the number of wt. classes are major changes. We have already had several in the last 20-25 years. 4 wt. class changes and twice added wt classes. What other sport has had that many major changes in 20-25 years?

Yeah, but if our goal is to grow and progress like these activities you mention then we have more to worry about than the number of weight classes.

[grappler-of-old 44]

I disagree Ranger.

We do need to worry about the number or weight classes. If we continue to add more and more weight classes then the smaller schools will no longer carry wrestling.

Our biggest obstacle is getting kids to wrestle. The number one complaint (other than the uniform) is weight loss. Adding weight classes can solve this problem but then you kill the smaller schools/programs. If we can more centralize out weight classes with the kids that are in high school and potential competitors we can accomplish both.

We have to realize our population is getting bigger, not just overweight kids but in general. Natural selection has made United States kids bigger and stronger over the years.

[DBW 1]

I think there are good and bad in the changes. For our school, adding another big weight class hurts. We didn't have a heavy last year and our biggest guy was about 200. Having to add another big will make it tougher on us. I think a lot of smaller teams/schools will be in the same boat. Since the new weight classes are based on national numbers, this may not be as much of a burden in areas where wrestling has a better foothold, but I do think it could be hard in Kentucky.

On the positive side, I do like bumping up the lightest weight to 106. Last year, our 103 was a freshman. Most of the kids he wrestled were middle school, because the high school didn't have anyone that size. His record appeared pretty good, but was against younger kids, and it showed at tournament time. Maybe the extra few pounds will allow some more high school kids to go varsity at the lighter weight instead of JV at the next step up.

[Ranger123 43]

I disagree Ranger.

We do need to worry about the number or weight classes. If we continue to add more and more weight classes then the smaller schools will no longer carry wrestling.

Our biggest obstacle is getting kids to wrestle. The number one complaint (other than the uniform) is weight loss. Adding weight classes can solve this problem but then you kill the smaller schools/programs. If we can more centralize out weight classes with the kids that are in high school and potential competitors we can accomplish both.

We have to realize our population is getting bigger, not just overweight kids but in general. Natural selection has made United States kids bigger and stronger over the years.

The population getting bigger and the group of kids putting the Oreos down, turning off the Xbox, and getting their lazy tails off the couch to wrestle are 2 totally different things.

But how does the current change "centralize" the weights? It doesn't. It slants it to the high side. And I don't think it helps the small schools/programs in any way either. Small schools tend to have very few big kids and even fewer athletic big kids; most will be in the basketball gym. Small programs are small for reasons outside of anyone's control as a governing body. I have coached at 2 of the smallest schools in this state with wrestling teams. I was never given a hard time about dual meet records. Wrestling was viewed as primarily an individual sport and we looked at individual results. And weight loss comes down to the culture of the team which is a direct reflection of the coach. Besides, nothing we do with the weight classes will limit weight loss. Kids will cut as much or as little as the coaches/rules push/let them.

[grappler-of-old 44]

how did your kids feel when they were at tourneys or duals?

Wretling has chaned in the last few years. More emphasis on dua tourneys. There are fewer and fewer individual tournaments being held each year.

I know on the small school that I coached when we were at a dual tourney (NKAC) by the second day my kids did not want to even show up on the second day let alone wrestle. They were demorolized by giving up forfiet after forfiet and then maybe wrestling a JV kid, because the other teams wanted to save their #1 wrestler for the next dual. Example: We wrestled Larue County in a dual tounrey. I had two decent kids that I wanted to wrestle. We all know how Laure works duals. Once they win or lose they forfiet out. We wrestled one match against Laure that day and my kids all got forfiets after that.

This is how it hurts the smaller teams/schools. Kids do not want to compete if they are not even able to win a dual.

We may or may not agree on this but at least we now have something to discuss and the season gets closer and closer.

[Ranger123 43]

how did your kids feel when they were at tourneys or duals?

Wretling has chaned in the last few years. More emphasis on dua tourneys. There are fewer and fewer individual tournaments being held each year.

I know on the small school that I coached when we were at a dual tourney (NKAC) by the second day my kids did not want to even show up on the second day let alone wrestle. They were demorolized by giving up forfiet after forfiet and then maybe wrestling a JV kid, because the other teams wanted to save their #1 wrestler for the next dual. Example: We wrestled Larue County in a dual tounrey. I had two decent kids that I wanted to wrestle. We all know how Laure works duals. Once they win or lose they forfiet out. We wrestled one match against Laure that day and my kids all got forfiets after that.

This is how it hurts the smaller teams/schools. Kids do not want to compete if they are not even able to win a dual.

We may or may not agree on this but at least we now have something to discuss and the season gets closer and closer.

Oh yeah, good discussion. That's what these sites are for. At Holy Cross (Louisville) we didn't really do many duals. On Wednesdays we would just wrestle our few kids against the other team and let the scorekeeper deal with the forfeits. And teams like PRP were great about letting us tag along for duals as well. At dual tournaments we were used as the base for the "All Star team". And our kids didn't mind. The focus was preparing for the post season. And KCD was similar. With the exception of the tremendous help we had getting kids out. Both schools with less than 150 boys (grades 9-12) and I never heard a lot of whining about duals or weight cutting. One team with less than half a squad and the other with close to a full lineup. The major difference was support and promotion of the team.

[John Golsby 0]

Wow a lot has. Changed since. I graduated. I do agree. There is no Pontiac in taking away 135lbs weight Class now I have no problem with the 195lbs weight class I'm all about adding weight classes makes it more exciting cause there's more wrestling and it helps the 215s who wants to drop down but Can get to 189. But to take a weight class away is not a smart thing

- John Golsby

Sorry for the typos. I'm replying via android

[Marc Petrucelli 0]

Up to 974 supporters of the Petition to change back to the Old HS weight classes from 2010-11 and over 50% of the supporters have been coaches. Do what's best for the sport and the kids who have put the work in hit link below to support

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?hl=en_US&formkey=dGlfNE1ZSG9aRE5Nb3lhZHJ6Xzh3emc6MQ#gid=0

[Ivan Putski 1]

The new weights are awful and penalize the kids that wrestle full time, since most of those kids aren't big enough to safely compete in that brain-mashing head trauma sport with which everyone seems to be so enamored. However, it will be a quicker State tournament for those that enjoy watching the best wrestling, since those wrestlers will be done early, and you can make a quick exit ahead of traffic before the groping belly bumpers hit the mat. Honestly, how many kids over 170 lbs. are consistently at open mats working hard at wrestling?

[Savage 5]

I love how "the little guys" are getting screwed according to everybody. Explain to me how it is 'fair' for the smaller weights to wrestle guys that are at most 5 pounds different from them but the bigger guys have to wrestle guys that could be up to 15-20 pounds+ heavier than them. It seems everyone wants to bash the heavier weights for not being athletic or not quality wrestlers, maybe the smaller weights would look the same way if they had to give up 15 pounds to their opponents. I understand some schools have issues filling upper weights. Guess what? Some schools have issues filling smaller weights too. When you have a weight division such as 103- that a fairly high percentage of high schools have to use middle school kids to fill a HIGH SCHOOL weight- clearly their is an issue there. But yet everyone belly aches about not being able to fill a heavier weight unless they 'recruit' a HIGH SCHOOL football player. I know I'm generalising and this does not apply to everyone but at least at heavier weights we are 'recruiting' high school students for a high school sport and not middle school kids.

If everyone is so up in arms about the new weights, instead of going back to the old weights, why not make the difference in weight from weight class to weight class the same across the board?

[Hasbeen85 3]

Smaller guys would cut the weight necessary, You would be hard pressed to find any big guy complaining of giving up to much weight, that couldn't cut to the weight lower. And dont't start with me about cutting weight. You knew what it was when you started so do like the smaller guys and quit being a baby. You don't have the numbers to have another weight class. There are 20x the number of kids in any 25lb span from 112 to 152 than there is from 189 to 215 or 215 to hwt.

[Ranger123 43]

savage - not going to get into too many details here, but having the same weight difference all the way up the lineup is ludicrous. % is much more valid than he weight. 5 pounds to a 106 pound kid is completely different from 5 pounds to a 152 (not to mention a heavyweight).