Bluegrass Challenge?

[rebel_wrestler_171 0]

Waiting is never ever a good thing

and quitting is?

[I-pinned-em-all 0]

Why do you not talk about our state tournament like this. If you are a heavyweight in our state, you weight in at what 8am and then you dont wrestle till around 2 or so. If you do not pre-register for these tournaments you can never expect them to start on time.

I am not sure how this example applies to the BGSB. Although the heavy weights weigh-in in the morning, they know they will not wrestle until the afterfoon. Likewise, everyone knows when they will wrestle in the state tournament. They go by bouts and a schedulle is posted well in advance.

The BGSG did not have bouts, they were not told when they would wrestle, they had no idea when they would wrestle. All fans and wrestlers had to wait in the gym for a 5 possibly 10 minute warning. After 6-7 hours of waiting it became painful for all.

Let me give you a different perspective. I am not some angry bitter person who enjoys beating up on others. However, I do get tired of what I perceive to be failures of action. Running a wrestling tournament is not rocket science. No doubt, work and preparation is involved, but come on, people in Ohio do it everyday. I have been taking my son to Sunday tournaments in Ohio ever since he was 5. Amazingly, they will have 300-500 kids in one school and be finished with an entire tournament by noon. It happens every weekend. I fail to believe the same kind of tournament can't be accomplished in Ky.

Which of the following excuses would you like me to accept?

1. We are not smart enough in Ky to run a smooth tournament

2. We are too proud to ask for help in Ky on how to run a smooth tournament.

3. In Ky, we don't mind if the BGSG championship match is wrestled.

4. Wait times are fun in Ky, it helps get us out of our hollows and into society.

5. Our coaches simply don't know how to run a tournament, give them a break

6. Our IQ is not high enough to figure out a bout system.

7. We don't have computers and phones throughout the state therefore we can not expect anyone to pre-register.

8. If you don't like Ky wrestling, just move away, you are too good for us simple folks.

9. Year after year we like complaining about the same thing.

10. For those who compare us to Ohio we just want you to move, we like things simple and slow.

11. Why won't any of the elite Ohio teams come visit their Kentucky neighbors and wrestle in our state.

12. I don't know why people want our state to progress. I enjoy antiquity.

13. No matter what you pay for, you should always thank the person for the product you just purchased.

14. Complaining is useless in Ky, we don't care, we will do it the same way next year.

15. If you complain, we will make personal attacks on you, lose site of the real issue, and defend our people to the bitter end. Remember, we are all confederates at heart.

16. What were the results of the BGSG, who cares, let's just fight. Results don't matter anyway.

17. Why do many of the elite Ky wrestling teams always wrestle out of state.

18. Never ask anyone to improve, all Kentuckians function at 100% all of the time. We can never improve.

Which one of the above do you want me to accept?

[bulldog-leader 56]

#7 IPEA. 

It may seem silly but it is probably true, especially the computer part.  You would not believe how many students I have that do not have computers.  At least half. 

You can then put the pressure on the coaches, but with the amount of coaching changes that occur in KY the have not

[Zeus 117]

3. In Ky, we don't mind if the BGSG championship match is wrestled.

Aren't you the one that criticized someone else for their grammar and english skills?  Because of your earlier posts I was able to figure out what you were talking about here.  A piece of advice though, until you can learn to type without any mistakes at all lay off other people, especially a high school student.  You did say you were what, 41 years old?  Thank god my parents had the sense to raise me to be more mature than you are even though I am almost twenty years younger.  :wink:  Have a nice day!

[I-pinned-em-all 0]

Aren't you the one that criticized someone else for their grammar and english skills?  Because of your earlier posts I was able to figure out what you were talking about here.  A piece of advice though, until you can learn to type without any mistakes at all lay off other people, especially a high school student.  You did say you were what, 41 years old?  Thank god my parents had the sense to raise me to be more mature than you are even though I am almost twenty years younger.  :wink:  Have a nice day!

I was raised by a pack of wolves. Does that help explain by temperment?

[pioneer_pride 1]

Fairfield H.S. in Ohio has always ran what I consider one of the best youth tournaments in the area.  They do no pre-registration, you register, pay, and weigh in the day of the tournament.  I think this is way better than pre-registrations because you don't have a kid sitting around all day to find out that a kid that pre-registered didn't bother to show up, and you get a forfeit in your 2 man bracket.

They have a system down, and if anyone is interested in solving this issue, their coaches are very approachable and are willing to share their system.  I have not been to their tournament in a few years, but as of probably 2-3 years ago, they broke the tournament into 4 sessions.  You would show up with your kid (register, pay, weigh in).  1-2 hours later you started wrestling.  I can't remember if it was 1 or 2, but even if it was 2....that's not that bad because you were done with wrestling after approximately 4 hours after entering the school.  That was for all sessions.  Oh yea, they had about 800-1000 kids enter that tournament each year.  There are some logistics of this tournament that are different than the bgsg, they ran it on 1/4 mats....volunteer h.s. refs, etc...

I spoke to their tournament director a few years ago about how they did this, and here are some of the tips I can remember off the top of my head:

* run the kids through basically an assembly line.

  - table 1, pick up a registration form, fill it out..after its filled out, proceed to table 2

  - table 2, pay and to get a weigh slip (color coded for your age division). 

  - weigh ins, small line there.  Do skin checks in the line if required, have kids strip to their singlets or boxers, whatever here.  They used 2, maybe 3 scales

  - have a runner take weigh slips to a bracketing room

Their bracketing room is where their magic occurred.  I asked him how they did this, and he said he just had a very experienced crew of people, that were all experts on writing up brackets.  He also wrote up detailed instructions on how to draw up the brackets.  With the help of a few of the more experienced coaches throughout the state, I fully believe the BGSG could be ran in multiple sessions and people could be in and out of that gym pretty quickly.  Probably within 4 hours.  For kids entering multiple brackets, obviously they would have to wait a lot longer, but that would be their choice. 

[pioneer_pride 1]

Oh yea, if you need volunteers to help with an assembly line type setup, just ask.  People would come out of the wood work if it was organized and Coach McCoy said he needed "10 people to help run registration & weigh ins". 

[snapdown133 0]

WOW...  I'm new to this site and to Ky wrestling but I must say it's nice to see so many people with a passion for the sport.  

[Guest cmccoy]

Pioneer Pride - Everything is done on Friday night. We did it all with only two people this year and it was fine. We started on time and got out at a decent time considering the number of matches.

[pioneer_pride 1]

pre-registration is great, except for sometimes it causes issues with kids not showing up.  But that's a minor point...but i have had a kid sit in the stands all day waiting for his 1 match at a youth tournament before, only to find out that his kid didn't show....so he got a medal and left.  This was a very gifted athlete i had at Conner, and he HATED, absolutely HATED to sit in the stands.  He sat out for 2 years, and came back his 8th grade year. 

If you could break it up into sessions, i think that would be a great benefit to this tournament.  It takes more to organize, but the benefit is that kids entering in only 1 age division (probably the majority of your kids) wouldn't have to sit there the whole day.  I'm not bashing, I'm just offering one more opinion on how to help solve this problem.  Someone brought up the Ohio T of C, I've been there a couple of times, and you always know about when you're up...and they have like 64 man brackets at that thing. It's hard, but not impossible.

[I-pinned-em-all 0]

Coach McCoy, we are not talking about the 5 star classic, we are not talking about region 7, I am not talking about anything you did in the past. The only topic is this years BGSG. You can try to throw out your credentials, but, frankly, it does not and never will justify this years BGSG. 6-7 hours of waiting is unacceptable. Remember coach, in wrestling, no one cares what you did in the past, we only care about what is current.

Will you acknowledge for the record the following:

1. Kids waited > 6 hours before wrestling their first match

2. Many finals, both consolation and championship matches, were never wrestled

3. Kids left the tournament and never notified anyone thereby making their opponent stand there on the mat for 2 minutes before the match was forfeited.

I don't care if you did the tournament by yourself or with a million people. This tournament was terrible. If you are proud of it's outcome, then our comparitive expectations are so far off we will never come to any conclusion. I personally don't believe the 2008 BGSG was a proud moment for Ky wrestling. But hey, I suppose I simply expect more from others as I expect more from myself. You can try to justify things with useless statistics such as what time you were finished, but I was there until the end, it was sad and an absolute debacle.

Next year, separate the tournament into sessions thereby eliminating kids and parents from 6-7 hour waits before wrestling their first match.

[Guest cmccoy]

Yes I will respond for the "record"

1. Yes kids did wait. Not sure of the time.

2. Yes, there were some, not many, finals that were not wrestled. The resaon was that many of the wrestlers wrestled in more than one weight class. I am sure some did leave due to waiting but most was due to the number of times they wrestled.

3. What am I supposed to do about kids leaving and not telling me. We gave them the time they get when tye do not show than forfeited them.

I only threw out those examples because you continue to say that I cannot run a tournament. I can run a tournament and do it well. Are there mistakes at times? Sure. I wish there weren't but there are. I am working as we speak to look into ideas on next years event. I am not going to commit to your idea until I research it and get it approved by the BGSG board. Please quit asking if it is going to happen. You made your point.

Look this is my last response. I will read your comments and take them into consideration.

[old140 4]

Cliff Notes?  I dont feel like reading all these long posts that seem to be saying the same thing over and over so I skipped to the end.

[workhard 28]

  I will try to share my likes and dislikes.I have three sons wrestling so we get a lot of trying situations.They wrestled novice 85and 90,schoolboy and cadet 91 cadetand junior 145. The youngest wrestled two matches the first 30 minutes and was finished,the middle son had two other boys in each bracket but only wrestled two matches all day, the 145lb wrestled two matches in each bracket even though he won one and lost one in each bracket. The junior bracket had 9 boys but there was no 3rd or 4th place wrestling. We came to wrestle, we want matches, waiting long periods and getting only two matches is reason for me to consider not coming back. We sign up in multiple brackets too get matches. The contrast my 90lb son was at Central for the Ky State Freestyle and folkstyle he entered both styles and had one other boy do the same they wrestled 5 matches the same boy was at BSGS in the same two divisions plus another boy and he got two matches.This is one example of many and I accept there is waiting in wrestling and human error and all uncontrollable circumstances but I also accept if we go to other tourneys and they go faster and get more matches then BGSG can attempt to do the same.My suggestions would be more of the same,multiple sessions or split mats for 82lbs and under round robins for divisions with 5 or fewer wrestlers,are a few and all of eviile dads.We support wrestling in our area as often as we can and will continue do so and hope to see it become as well organized as any other state is.but that will take willingness too change for some and patience for others.One other thing specific to BGSG 25 dollars is a expensive entry fee compared to other off season tourneys so it should strive too get people as many matches as possible in the shortest time. Trying to be objective I think we all want the same thing but become too personal when we relay our disappointments .

[CoachK 2]

I can bet right now there will be one session...without knowing what people are going to be there and at what weight class and age group until that morning how are you going to have two sessions.  Unless everyone comes to register and weigh in then come back 7 hours later...that's not practical either for people to drive there and back.  I don't like waiting for hours to have a first match and have done it before and will probably again.  It would be nice if it was quicker or done differently but to just get on here and whine like the two had makes no sense or is not costructive in any way.  If you haven't ever run a tournament or helped run a tournament then it's easy to sit off to the side and on your soap box and banter.   I never saw now nor in the past either coach mccoy or mathound get on here and  make a post for people to praise and applaud them for their efforts.

CoachK, you are not making sense.

You state if 2 sessions were held then SOME kids would have to sit through both sessions in order to wrestle different weights and ages.

Well, as it is now, EVERYONE has to sit and wait through what is effectively 2 sessions. If a wrestler CHOOSES to wrestle in both sessions, than that is his choice. But, to make everyone sit through both sessions is wrong.

You state that more than half, more like 75%, of the kids don't have parents in the stands. Perhaps parents are tired of sitting in bleachers for hours and NOT seeing their child wrestle. Perhaps they are tired of the bedlam. If I represent any component of the 25% of parents in the stands, then hear what I am saying. Interestingly, in Ohio, where tournaments are usually fast and smooth, the stands are full of spectators.

Coach McCoy posted the wrestling attendance at the BGSG for the last several years prior to this years event. Remember, it was a challenge to set attendance records. Therefore, based on the last several years, it was anticipated the wrestler attendance would exceed > 200. There were no surprises CoachK, just poor planning or absolute refusal to do things differently than the past.

My comment regarding the concession stand is accurate. I realize the economic impact of running a sport. I was a high school wrestling coach for 3 years. Yesterday's tournament forced wrestlers and fans to remain in the gym waiting for their name to be called. There was little organization and the calling of brackets and names was a potpouri. This prevented fans/wrestlers from leaving to eat and forced purchases through the concession stand. I always patronize every concession stand and support high school programs. I simply don't appreciate being forced to sit through 2 sessions when there was never any intention to have the older, heavier kids wrestle until mid- afternoon.

I didn't like sitting around all day waiting to see a defending state champion wrestle a state runner-up, only to have the champ forfeit the final match due to all matches being crammed into a brief time frame.

I too, didn't like seeing wrestlers who lost in the semi's advanced to the finals and having the error discovered after the championship match was finished. Especially, when it was my child who was supposed to be in the finals.

Kentucky wrestling goes through generational phases. By the time parents of younger wrestlers have been around long enough to realize these tournaments are poorly run, their child graduates. The next batch of parents don't realize until years later things can be done better. I am now the parent of an older child and will not commend this kind of poor planning. In fact, I find it offensive.

CoachK, I personally expect more out of Kentucky wrestling. I expect improvements each year, even if minor improvements.  I expect the people who run the tournament to carefully read these comments and understand the reason for the negative feedback.  Respect is a two way street. I guarentee no successful business, school, wrestling tournament, or classroom allows their patrons to sit idle for 7 hours. 

I will ask again, knowing there will be over 200 wrestlers next year, will there be two sessions or one smashed together session?   

[I-pinned-em-all 0]

CoachK, there are 15 years of data from the BGSG. Posted on a previous thread was data dating back to 2000. It would not require much effort to look at the ages and wts and divide into 2 sessions.

For example:

Ages 5-12 from 9 am to noon

Ages 13 and above 1-4 pm

At an absolute minimum, this would prevent kids 13 and above from sitting around while the little kids wrestle.

Look at some of my previous posts on how complimentary I was to coaches for their smoothly run tournament. It just so happens, the BGSG seems to be the same year after year. Perhaps I should post nothing and then you would never know about the man who can't sit in the bleachers because of a bad back and all of the family members who could but won't attend sessions because of excessive waits.  What is better for the overall health of our sport, apathy and denial or the bold truth and action.

[CoachK 2]

Obviously the bold truth with some sort of constructive criticism and not "garbage"talking or such.  I too have a bad back and it kills me every Saturday when I sit there for 12 hours on Saturday on bleachers waiting for my kids to wrestle for the 5 mintues then go sit back down again, but I continue to do it.  Maybe that is a possibility to have young kids come in early and register and wrestle and then have the older kids come back in the afternoon and register then and wrestle.  I wrestled some BGSG back in the late 80's and early 90's and I believe we did that one year and I was in two weight classes and wrestled 3 back to back matches because of it, so that might happen again if it gets split up.  Maybe its a possibility but instead of putting down people and comparing everything to OHIO and saying everyone in Ky is terrible and doesn't know how to run a tournament maybe those comments right there should have been the first post.  This last post I think was the most effective and straight to the point without any negativity directed towards anyone.  If I didn't know any better I would think that you are one of my bosses, being negative and dirogatory towards others  :-).

CoachK, there are 15 years of data from the BGSG. Posted on a previous thread was data dating back to 2000. It would not require much effort to look at the ages and wts and divide into 2 sessions.

For example:

Ages 5-12 from 9 am to noon

Ages 13 and above 1-4 pm

At an absolute minimum, this would prevent kids 13 and above from sitting around while the little kids wrestle.

Look at some of my previous posts on how complimentary I was to coaches for their smoothly run tournament. It just so happens, the BGSG seems to be the same year after year. Perhaps I should post nothing and then you would never know about the man who can't sit in the bleachers because of a bad back and all of the family members who could but won't attend sessions because of excessive waits.  What is better for the overall health of our sport, apathy and denial or the bold truth and action.

[ccbcdeke 43]

so...the BGSG didn't go so well?.... :?

[rebel_wrestler_171 0]

Perhaps I should post nothing

I think that is an great idea!!

[VipImportantWrestler 0]

IPEA is right, and everyone else is wrong

:-D

[grappler-of-old 44]

WOOOOOO HOOOOOOO  :-D :-D :-D

ALL RIIIIGGHTT!!!!!

Now were getting back in it.  We haven't had a spunky thread like this in a long time.  I was getting bored reading the posts on here.  

Heck I don't think I have said much in the last couple of months.  Can you believe that????

Way to go IPEA way to stir the pot.  Wish I would have gone to the tourney so I could complain too.  

After reading these posts however its time to to take ye ole muzzle off.  (I can't believe I am going to say this but) I think I agree with the great and powerful oz on this one.  IPEA has been pretty critical on the people running the BGSG, but not without a reason.  

I'm quite certain that this tread would not have lasted as long without him.  The posts have been both intelectual (sp) and Bart Simpson-ish or (Barney Five-ish depending on your age) at the same time.  I didn't think that was possible.  

However you are sounding like a broken record (2 sessions, 2 sessions, 2 sessions) C'mon this is not the silver bullet.  

Coach K you should know the squeeky wheel gets the most oil.  That's all IPEA is doing and hopefully it works.  Critisizm weather totally constructive or not is good.  I think he did give some contructive critisizm he just back handed it.  

PP (oh I just love saying that) are you alright?? Your posts were so nice.  Has someone else taken over your name??

As for Rebel_wrestler_171.  What are you tryng to do.  have you got a problem?  One sentance responses that make little sense at all.  Are you trying to race me to the most negative Karma?  Or are you just trying to become the KW.com jester?

Keep up the good work fella's Ill be watching and laughing it up.   :-D

Oh and please don't remind me of my grammer everyone already knows I'm a blow hard that has no grammer.

[Ranger123 43]

Okay, I'm finally going to chime in here with a voice of reason.  I sat through almost the entire painful (for reasons other than wait times) day.  I have been going to the BGSG for the last 12 years (missing only 1 or 2).  I will start by saying the event has improved dramatically from the early days.  Improved attendance, competition, venue, and organization.  That is not to say we can't continue to improve.  And if we want to keep the competition level high we have to make this an event that state champions and placers want to attend.  I do think 2 sessions is a silver bullet for this event.  Bout numbers would help as well.  As Coach McCoy has pointed out, pre-registration will not help as he already has all of the weigh-in info by Friday night and you don't know weights until the weighin session.  And based on the relatively steady participation figures, I think a session system could be set up pretty easily and work well.  I would still be there all day, but that would be my choice and I would know when to prepare for what events.  I think Coach McCoy will take the constructive criticisms and make improvements to what has turned into competitively the highlight summer tournament in KY.

[grappler-of-old 44]

    If 2 sessions is the silver bullet then BGSG will have egg on their face.  This is an extremely simple solution.  Summer tourneys have been doing this for years, even when I wrestled they had the youngens go first then the older latter. 

    Oh well problem solved, no more fun.  :x

[snapdown133 0]

     If 2 sessions is the silver bullet then BGSG will have egg on their face.  This is an extremely simple solution.  Summer tourneys have been doing this for years, even when I wrestled they had the youngens go first then the older latter. 

     Oh well problem solved, no more fun.  :x

you should run for president...  our economy would be back in shape in no time at all. 

[Olympic_wish 0]

WOOOOOO HOOOOOOO  :-D :-D :-D

ALL RIIIIGGHTT!!!!!

Now were getting back in it.  We haven't had a spunky thread like this in a long time.  I was getting bored reading the posts on here. 

Heck I don't think I have said much in the last couple of months.  Can you believe that????

Way to go IPEA way to stir the pot.  Wish I would have gone to the tourney so I could complain too. 

After reading these posts however its time to to take ye ole muzzle off.  (I can't believe I am going to say this but) I think I agree with the great and powerful oz on this one.  IPEA has been pretty critical on the people running the BGSG, but not without a reason. 

I'm quite certain that this tread would not have lasted as long without him.  The posts have been both intelectual (sp) and Bart Simpson-ish or (Barney Five-ish depending on your age) at the same time.  I didn't think that was possible. 

However you are sounding like a broken record (2 sessions, 2 sessions, 2 sessions) C'mon this is not the silver bullet. 

Coach K you should know the squeeky wheel gets the most oil.  That's all IPEA is doing and hopefully it works.  Critisizm weather totally constructive or not is good.  I think he did give some contructive critisizm he just back handed it. 

PP (oh I just love saying that) are you alright?? Your posts were so nice.  Has someone else taken over your name??

GRAP- I still win for most negative karma.

As for Rebel_wrestler_171.  What are you tryng to do.  have you got a problem?  One sentance responses that make little sense at all.  Are you trying to race me to the most negative Karma?  Or are you just trying to become the KW.com jester?

Keep up the good work fella's Ill be watching and laughing it up.  :-D

Oh and please don't remind me of my grammer everyone already knows I'm a blow hard that has no grammer.