Sign in to follow this  
3/4nelson

Bluegrass Challenge?

Recommended Posts

Guest The Great And Powerful Oz

That being said the BGSGs has to be much more difficult because, as previously stated, you have no idea of how many, what age groups, weight classes, etc. until that morning.

Why?  Weren't all remote weigh ins completed and turned in by the night before? 

I will agree that yesterday's tournament, when compared to states and others, was poorly run.  However, that does not give anyone the right to come on here and ostracize the tournament directors.  If you want to criticize then give suggestions (see bulldog-leader's post) on how to make it better instead of blindly rambling on and on about the concessions, wait times, and everything else.  For those of you who are comparing us to Ohio I say go on and move there, we don't want you here.  Those of us who are doing everything we can to help the sport grow do not appreciate your comparing KY, which I will admit is not the best wrestling state, to arguably the best state in the country.  I have been to the Ohio TOC and I can tell you that those directors are paid for running that tournament.  Coach McCoy, in addition to his personal life, and his career is doing this and not asking for anything in return.  Did they make money off concessions?  Of course they did.  But they probably had to rent the gym, pay the janitors to clean up after you, pay the officials (who did a pretty good job) and a whole host of other hidden costs.

I can't speak for everyone complaining, but I don't expect Kentucky to be as good as Ohio.  But if a tournament can be ran in that state in sessions, where an individual kid competing in 1 bracket can be in and out of that gym in 2-4 hours, it can be done in this state as well.  Don't sell our people short and act like it can't be done here, it can, and that's what we should be shooting for.  That's all I'm saying, 7 hours in a gym, before a first match is straight up ridiculous.  No if's, and's but's about it.  Ok, it happened, that's a shame....can't do anything about the past, but learn from mistakes and fix it next year.  If it can't be improved, then at least communicate up front "Hey, at this tournament some kids may have to wait for 7 hours for their first match.  Just be patient, it happens, afterall this is Kentucky, not Ohio".  :evil:  Can you imagine if a parent going to a baseball game had to wait 7 hours before their kid took the field?  It's not acceptable in that sport, and we should accept it in this sport. 

I, like Coach McCoy am trying to help the sport grow in Kentucky.  But honestly, if it really bothers you that much how the tournament was run then don't come back next year because we don't need your negativity.  That's the beauty of it, all you lost was a Saturday and 25 bucks so loosen up a little.

If that's the only option people have to sitting in the stands for 7 hours before a first match, then that's what a lot of the older kids will do.  I didn't have to do this for my little one, but I had a friend with an older kid there, so we stayed to watch him.  I couldn't believe how long he had to wait without a match. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest The Great And Powerful Oz

I, like Coach McCoy am trying to help the sport grow in Kentucky.

By the way, we all are.  It will help the sport grow if we can figure out how to get kids and their family in and out of a gym in a reasonable amount of time.  Most people involved in this sport are some of the most helpful people you will ever meet.  Maybe ask some people who have ran some of the more well ran tournaments how they do things so smoothly.  Sessions would be a big plus for this tournament in the future.  And I think that's about all i have to say on the matter.  Good luck next year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am not 23 years old like Kalen. I am 41 and frankly tired of people asking for accolades after giving us garbage. Kalen, feel embarrassed for me if you like, go to church and pray for me. Frankly, I don't need your soul cleansing. What I need is people to allow theirs minds to grow. Last years BGSG was the same, the year before was the same. Maybe when you are 41 you may be tired of being fed garbage by people trying to make you believe you are eating filet mignon.

This is my offer Coach McCoy, your service is appreciated by some, but bottom line, not up to par. Next year, I will run the entire tournament at Campbell County High School. I personally guarentee no wrestler will be in the gymnasium for > 3 hours, that includes handing out medals. There will be 2, possibly 3 sessions, depending on the number of attendees. I will personally refund each wrestler the $25 tournament fee if they are there beyond 3 hours. I will organize the officials, the wrestling insurance, attend all BGSG meetings and meet all requirements mandated by the state. My service will be FREE as will my volunteers. I will do this to advance the quality of wrestling in Ky. I will raise the bar to a level which will provide an atmosphere where 400-500 kids will want to wrestle in future BGSG tournaments. I will not ask people to thank me for my time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

pay the officials (who did a pretty good job)

srry but the officials were terrible i know that it didn't really matter and it wasnt the state tournament or anything..but very very incosistant

o and about hosting it at CC thats far i say just run it at the same place except if you wanna run it you run and make all the money and pay for the expenses but i like your idea

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I-pinned-em-all,

Instead of trying to take things over, why not a helping hand?  I too have hosted a tourney in the summer and registration is nuts.  You can either cut things early and not have that many wrestlers or do as much as possible to get more wrestlers.  If wrestling is to grow we have to promote participation not create division among Kentucky wrestling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow it sounds like I-pinned-em-all has been scarred by poorly run tournaments in the past.  Let's hope he can work through his unresolved issues.  I don't know any shrinks in Campbell County but do know a couple in Lexington.  Let me know if you want a name.  I surely hope you didn't treat your wrestlers this way when they were doing the best they could (in this case with their very limited resources).  Maybe that's why you only lasted three years as a coach.

I do however agree that some changes can be made to run the tournament more smoothly.  While I have no experience I will offer my help to Coach McCoy in future years.  Maybe if we could get rid of some of the negative posts on this thread we can actually discuss some ideas in a civil manner and therefore make progress.  I agree with Kalen completely about how to suggest ideas.  I do like some of the ideas that have been proposed.  In my opinion the tournament should stay in Lexington though.

srry but the officials were terrible i know that it didn't really matter and it wasnt the state tournament or anything..but very very incosistant

I realize the officials were not the best but you have to remember that only one, maybe two, are licensed officials.  In a perfect world they should be licensed but this is an example of the limited resources I mentioned above.  This is the summer and many refs probably are vacationing or working another job in which case McCoy (or whoever chooses) is forced to use a high school coach and two college students.  Officiating in the regular season isn't much better anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would like to again state that you never have or will hear coach mccoy mathound, or anyone else involved in the running of the BGSG ask or expect thanks or accolades for the running of this event.  Those involved do it for the kids.  For the long wait times I know everyone involved is sorry.  I do agree with Kalen...lets talk about real solutions rather than coming in here and making comments that dont need to be made.  As for the people that feel the waiting was disrespectful thats a stretch was it an inconvience sure but they were not doing it to disresepct any parent coach wrestler etc in this state. 

I agree with Kalen, Coach McCoy is one of the easiest people to work with and is very receptive to SUGGESTIONS not insults.  We do need to promote participation as stated above if you dont let people in because they didnt register soon enough that will keep numbers down. 

I think we need to stop the criticism and take it as a lesson learned. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Perhaps I do need a shrink. I need someone to shrink my expectations from our paid coaches. I need to accept mediocrity. I need to accept coaches with many years of experience have never in their entire career seen or been part of a well run tournament. I need to accept 7 hour waits before even wrestling one match. I need to accept no posted results from tournaments. I need to accept the championship match will not always have the wrestlers who won their side of the bracket. I need to accept many wrestlers will never complete a tournament and simply leave out of disgust for the tournament. I need to accept year after year whining coaches crying stating the best they can do is subsist in the world of wrestling. I need to accept next year the same thing will happen just like the several years in the past. I need to accept many Ky fans feel 7 hours of wait is fun and part of the sport. I need to accept so many people who never want to demand improvements of their colleagues. I need to accept average people are willing to come on this site and be perfectly happy with average results, from average people in an average state. I need to realize my desire to improve and exceed expectations is just a mental flaw I possess and others simply don't have the drive within them to prevail. I need to accept we will never have 2 sessions for wrestling at the BGSG because it may actually make things easier and bring out larger crowds. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Perhaps I do need a shrink. I need someone to shrink my expectations from our paid coaches.

By the way that was a pretty lousy response.  Like I said before if it bothers you that bad then simply don't come back next year.  The majority of the state will not miss you I'm sure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest cmccoy

I would like to address a few things:

I have said it before and I will say it again...I do not want or need your gratitude or thanks. I do not do the tournament for that reason. Nor do I do it for the concession stand money. I was asked to take this over 6 years ago and was warned about the negativity that comes with it every year. Yet I still do it and have never asked for anything in return and will never expect anything.

Mathound was not a tournament director so leave him out of the negativity when discussing this "disgrace".

I apologize that there was a wait. I seperated the 4 mats into two age groups each to try to avoid this. It did not work so I will go back to the drawing board.

I also apologize that you feel disrespected. To those that know me well, I would never disrepect the wrestling community. Including those who continue to bash me on this site.

The garbage comment is out of line and very unnecessary.

Finally, if you would like to make comments or suggestions about the tournament please contact me:

Phone: 859-509-6379

Email: chris.mccoy@fayette.kyschools.us

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes we should compare ourselves to Ohio as someone mentioned they may be the best in the country.  Shouldn't we always strive to be the best?  Does not every wrestling team compare themselves to the Woodford Co. dynasty?, or the dynasty in your region?  You all strive to be as good as they are. It just so happens that we are close to one of the best wrestling states in the nation.  We can learn from them.

One of the reasons I never had many wrestlers at Holmes was because many of the wrestlers complained about the long Saturdays.  Leaving at 6 am and returning home at midnight.  I tried to move as many of my weekends to Ohio because they were able to complete a tournament by 6:00 pm. and that was with a 1 hour break for dinner before the finals.  I am hoping that they continue next year and can keep more kids wrestling.

At least IPEA brought the subject to the forefront.  It has people talking about it, and hopefully more will be willing to help out next year to make it an even better event.

As for bringing it up here to Nky.  I would love that because then I wouldn't have to travel to Lex. for my son to participate next year, and it would only take me about 10 minutes to get there.

BUT (and that's a big but)

I'm certain that we would loose many more competitors/wrestlers if we did this.  This is not our goal.  Forcing a pre-registration deadline would also lower participation.  Even though I understand your thoughts behind deadlines and the real world IEPA.  I think it is still possible to organize it without the deadline. 

IPEA.  I'm sure you haven't talked to the actual people who would run the tourney at Campbell Co. And I'm certain they would appreciate the burden and expectation that you would put on their backs.

I don't think that there is a shrink in Ky that could help IPEA at this point. 

Maybe we need to get in touch with the Dali llama or something?  :-D

Oh no maybe not.  We don't want to corrupt the Dali llama with IPEA.  :-D :-o

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

Mathound didn't care that he unfairly got thrown in the mix, Coach McCoy... if you go down, he goes down with you.  :-p

RE: IPEA's last post...

1) With the kind of immature, sad comments you've interlaced with all of your posts, I would not admit that I was over the age of 11 if I were you.

2) As for me praying for you - no thanks, I have a few people ahead of you on my list.

3) Oh.. and the Academy Award for Most Dramatic Post Ever goes to...

PS) I'd still like to see some results, too since we didn't get to make it this year... were there a lot of older wrestlers (ones that graduated already) at the tourney or no?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mathound didn't care that he unfairly got thrown in the mix, Coach McCoy... if you go down, he goes down with you.  :-p

RE: IPEA's last post...

1) With the kind of immature, sad comments you've interlaced with all of your posts, I would not admit that I was over the age of 11 if I were you.

2) As for me praying for you - no thanks, I have a few people ahead of you on my list.

3) Oh.. and the Academy Award for Most Dramatic Post Ever goes to...

PS) I'd still like to see some results, too since we didn't get to make it this year... were there a lot of older wrestlers (ones that graduated already) at the tourney or no?

Listen honey, we didn't ask for the cheerleaders opinion, especially when you didn't even go to the tournament. Obviously you didn't waste you Saturday in a gym watching wrestling.  Aren't there pom poms to fluff somewhere? Who are you the "keeper of peace and morality?"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think I can speak on behalf of many viewers of this site by saying the comments are getting out of control by the negativity.  Of course there are going to be those people (I pinned-em-all

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the point is wrstle84 is that the kids did not have fun, this was proven by the many wrestlers that left before they were eliminated.  I believe one post even said a state champ left because it took so long.  I personally have left tournaments that have taken to long.

Waiting is never ever a good thing in a wrestling tournament.  The waiting game is the number one detractor for would be wrestlers and spectators.  As for waiting for 3 hours at the WCI.  This is why I never took my team to this tourney.  I could get as good if not better competition across the river without the wait time. 

I think most of us in the wrestling community understand this, and no one is OK with wait time.  If it can be improved please do so. 

I will be making the transition from a coach 20+ years to a parent of a wrestler.  Believe me, if a tournament starts to get out of hand and running much to long.  The administrator at the tournament will get an earful from me.  As is what I expected when I ran a tournament and delays occurred or it ran waaaaayyyy off schedule.

Sometimes you do the best you can and it is still not good enough.  Just ask the hundreds of non-state champions last year, or the hundred or so who did not make it to the state tournament.  Even though they may have done the best they could, they are probably not patting themselves on the back and saying I'm going to do the same thing next year.  When you don't meet expectations you pull up the boot straps and tighten the belt and get your hands dirty improving for next year.

Sure hope I put the commas in the correct spots.  English was not my strongest subject.  :-D

Thank goodness spell check can correct my atrocious spelling. (I hope that word gets me out of the intellectual midget category and into the mental midget category) :evil:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you are fed garbage all your life then you are happy to eat garbage. Yesterdays tournament was garbage and it didn't have to be.

Suggestions

1. Pre-register, give a deadline to register, notice the word DEAD line. No one will be allowed to register beyond the DEAD line. Teachers and coaches, start TEACHING these young students in life there are DEAD lines. Miss the DEAD line, you can't wrestle. Again, teachers and coaches, expect more from your wrestlers and perhaps you will get more. Expect mediocrity and that is what you will receive. 

2. Don't expect grandparents and spectators to sit on a wooden bench for 7 hours before they ever see their child wrestle. It is not fair and will result in them not returning for future matches. That decreases attendance and results in fewer fans, etc. Kentucky wrestling declines.

3. Give staggered times. 2 sessions would have resolved the issue.

Personally, I find it offensive that people like Mathound and Coach McCoy expect accolades for simply running a tournament. Spare me the time and volunteer whining. When you volunteer to run a tournament, which results in several thousand dollars generated for your wrestling team via concessions, you have choices. Run a good tournament or a bad tournament. Yesterday's tournament was bad. Kentucky wrestling was not advanced forward yesterday. Waiting in a gym during July for 7 hours before wrestling your first match was disrespectful.

It remains sad that during all of this bantering the simple solution is 2 sessions, one for youths and one for older wrestlers.  Yet our teachers and coaches can't seem to grasp this simple concept. Year after year this suggestion is made to BGSG yet fans and wrestlers are still subjected to garbage. IF YOU KNOW IT WILL BE 7 HOURS BEFORE  THE OLDER KIDS WILL WRESTLE THEIR FIRST MATCH, DON'T HAVE THEM SHOW UP AT 9 AM, HAVE THEM COME IN AT 2 OR 3 PM. 

Next year, the BGSG will have over 200 wrestlers. Stagger the times and everyone will pat Mathound on the head and tell him what a good job he did. Until then, bad dog for yesterdays tournament. Your face needs to be rubbed in the garbage.

I don't give teachers and coaches free rides for just showing up. Likewise, I don't believe in giving wrestlers free rides for just showing up. If you are going to willingly participate, then give it your best. I fail to accept yesterday's BGSG was Kentucky's best.

Why do you not talk about our state tournament like this. If you are a heavyweight in our state, you weight in at what 8am and then you dont wrestle till around 2 or so. If you do not pre-register for these tournaments you can never expect them to start on time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

Awwww, 3/4nelson - do you have a negative stigma of cheerleaders cause they always turned you down in school :( ??? Maybe you can see the same shrink as IPEA & you'll both get over your little man syndrome & learn how to speak to women with some intelligent remarks.

That being said - I'm a little old to be a cheerleader. And I love spending my Saturdays watching wrestling - I love this sport. I don't mind waiting... I just paint my toenails pink, curl my hair, and read a Cosmo while I wait... you know, being a cheerleader & all... sadly my cousin got married this particular Saturday & it was slightly more important....

And with that being said, I'm out - this thread is ridiculous... I hope everyone does find the valid points here & there throughout and learns from their mistakes, though. (Applause to those honest enough to leave constructive criticism - let's hope your concerns get acknowledged & fixed).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I compliment anyone who has ever taken the time to run a tournament. I know the effort and stress thats involved and while its a thankless position everyone in the state needs you and your efforts or none of us would be able to enjoy the sport. So thanks to all the tournament directors around the state.

I know most people running tournaments are trying to come up with ideas on how to improve their event.

Here are a few ideas from different tournaments that we tried to use in the past, some worked well and some didnt. Hope it spurs some ideas and helps someone down the line:

*Pre register when ever possible

*Weigh-In day or night prior to event.

*Keep weight classes on the same mats all day, dont hesitate to move bouts to other mats as needed.

*Include bout numbers on brackets and display current bouts for each mat, various ways to do this but can be very helpful to the fans, coaches and wrestlers to be able to know how long before their next bout.

*Maintain paper brackets at every table to backup the computer.

*Publish a schedule for the tournament, rounds  planned - breaks planned- finals planned, you may have to adjust during the day (announce changes to the fans), but at least it gives a game plan.

Some of these ideas are from the Tourn. of Champions, someone mentioned it earlier and I agree it is well organized event by professionals, lots of paid workers making it flow smoothly. Its hard to compare tournaments run by volunteers to TofC but they still have some ideas that can be applied in some situation.

Another group that does a good job is Indiana's USAW. Most tournaments are ran well, the USAW has a bracketing system that seems to enable them to run 100's of kids thru in a reasonable amont of time.

I suggest a suggestion box on the site for how to improve aspects of the sport. A place where people could post ideas on how to help others run tournaments, run clubs, fundraise, coach, ect.... Might be a good way to share ideas that could help someone else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice post e-ville.I hope some of you parents and coaches don't take your wrestlers out of state and tell them since they are from Kentucky their not as good as other kids.The tournament was way to slow for the older wrestlers(I missed alot of my sons older teamates because my back hurt from the bleachers) but learn and improve.There is no reason we can't run tournaments as good as Ohio.Also,if some of you don't think the wait hurts wrestling then you have not been around very long.Its just bad when you have an 85 year old mother(and 7 sisters and 2 brothers)that can't sit all day not knowing about what time her grandson will wrestle.I could fill a gym with my family,but I would not ask them to sit that amount of time.We need all the fan support this sport can get so Live and Learn.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this