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3/4nelson

Bluegrass Challenge?

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Yea OW,  I was wondering when you would pop up.  but you are trying to get that award.

I'll bet however I have the most combined Negative and possitive. 

That's what happens when you just speak what you feel.

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Guest The Great And Powerful Oz

I wrestled in the turney and i thought it went fine  :-D

Here we go again, thank you for bringing us back to full circle.  Were you there for over 6 hours before your first match?  I suspect you weren't...otherwise, you'd probably be ticked like some are.  If you didn't have to wait over 6 hours for your first match, then consider yourself lucky and you can join the group of people singing the praise. 

Bottom line, long waits are bad for the sport and should be addressed in the future by responsible tournament directors.  I think Coach McCoy will do the right thing next year and try to fix this.  If not, heaven help him if IPEA finds him!  :-D :-D  That was just a joke people, lighten up.  The tournament can't just improve in numbers, it has to improve in quality organization. 

There has been a lot of great tips already brought up on this thread for improvements already, and maybe this has already been stated, but just being able to estimate when you would be up would be great.  So bout numbers would help a lot of people and cut down on some complaints.  Just like IPEA said, you felt trapped because you really didn't know when your next bout was.  You couldn't plan for a break.  So here's my constructive criticism...next year use sessions and use bouts.

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ok it's time to shut all of you up. the main reason you all had to wait is because you all signed up for 2 weight classes. that doubled the matches and doubled the time. I-PINNED-EM-ALL if you r who i think you r you have NOOOOOOOOOOO room to talk about disrespect. i believe i recall you starting an argument with the head table after he changed your sons mistake on the bracket with out even looking at the bout sheets. he took your word for it and respected your word as a man and believed you had been wronged. then you had the nerve to make a comment about the way the tournement was run. did u happen to notice the whole tournement was run by TWO PEOPLE. mr. mccoy and his father. and you have no clue the time and effort it takes until you have done it your self. the 352 matches and the 80 brackets were done by mr.mccoy and myself the night before. we were there till almost 12. then came in at 7 am just to be confronted by you and the other crazy friggin parents who argue about anything and everything. i also reffed the tournement and had to listen to all the complaints about the continuous clock. until you run a tournement do not complain. you have absolutly no clue what it is like and if i recall mr.mccoy still runs the fastest tournement ive seen in kentucky so far. i've been to almost every tournement kentucky has and BY FAR he is the most efficient. i know you your self have been to tournement where you don't leave the gym till almost 11pm sometimes more. shut up and be happy your son even got to wrestle. and be glad he is healthy enough to wrestle. take what you have and be happy with it instead of complaining about what goes wrong.

as for the rest of you take what ive said and go with it. volunteer and help at these events to help this go smoother. as you said all you did was sit and wait. do something and help the staff at any tournement. we actually had a few people volunteer and it helped tremenously. if you dont like the way something is run do it your self or shut up. plain and simple. now let all the smart a$$ remarks come.

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Armbar - I don't know what tournaments you go to in Kentucky, but I've been taking my son to tournaments for 12 years and this was the absolute LONGEST we've ever waited.  We paid for this event (alot for a tournament).  I find it extremely presumptuous that you would tell someone to shut up and be glad their kid could wrestle.  The realities are:

1.  It was a bad tournament - plain and simple. 

2.  People were aggravated - including Mr. McCoy.

3.  My son's bracket was wrong and was not fixed.  He should have been in the    finals and as we were leaving he was being called for 3rd and 4th.  What a shame that kids turned out to wrestle and left without their matches.

4.  Those of us who have elite wrestlers and have been around a long time know how to run tournaments.  Most of the people on this site have run tournaments, coached and reffed.  Also we are spectators, fanatics and parents who know the sport inside and out.  Don't be delusional and think you and Mr. McCoy are the only people in Kentucky who can run a tournament. 

5.  Stand back and look at the criticism.  Is it true?  And how can it be fixed?  Don't be so emotional.  Just fix it.  Otherwise, this tournament will go down the tubes. 

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the tournament was run exactly the same as it has been for as long as i remember the only difference was all the kids who wrestled in 2 weight classes. and yes ive been to quite a few that we have left at 11 o clock id love to go to the tournaments you go to if you get out as early as you say. since you run such a good tournament why don't you call BGSG comission and host it at campbell county next year. and i agree mr.mccoy was very aggitated it was a stressful day. but i am absolutly not sayin he is the only one who runs a good tournament. just let it die. your kid got matches, he beat everyone i'm guessing and got recognized probably there were a few college coaches there so you got nothing to argue about. and the truth is if you want it to go faster tell everyone not to sign up for 2 weight classes. simple as that.

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ok it's time to shut all of you up. the main reason you all had to wait is because you all signed up for 2 weight classes. that doubled the matches and doubled the time. I-PINNED-EM-ALL if you r who i think you r you have NOOOOOOOOOOO room to talk about disrespect. i believe i recall you starting an argument with the head table after he changed your sons mistake on the bracket with out even looking at the bout sheets. he took your word for it and respected your word as a man and believed you had been wronged. then you had the nerve to make a comment about the way the tournement was run. did u happen to notice the whole tournement was run by TWO PEOPLE. mr. mccoy and his father. and you have no clue the time and effort it takes until you have done it your self. the 352 matches and the 80 brackets were done by mr.mccoy and myself the night before. we were there till almost 12. then came in at 7 am just to be confronted by you and the other crazy friggin parents who argue about anything and everything. i also reffed the tournement and had to listen to all the complaints about the continuous clock. until you run a tournement do not complain. you have absolutly no clue what it is like and if i recall mr.mccoy still runs the fastest tournement ive seen in kentucky so far. i've been to almost every tournement kentucky has and BY FAR he is the most efficient. i know you your self have been to tournement where you don't leave the gym till almost 11pm sometimes more. shut up and be happy your son even got to wrestle. and be glad he is healthy enough to wrestle. take what you have and be happy with it instead of complaining about what goes wrong.

as for the rest of you take what ive said and go with it. volunteer and help at these events to help this go smoother. as you said all you did was sit and wait. do something and help the staff at any tournement. we actually had a few people volunteer and it helped tremenously. if you dont like the way something is run do it your self or shut up. plain and simple. now let all the smart a$$ remarks come.

Please forgive me Armbar, for I have sinned.

You are 100% correct. Never have I been put in my place by such a well thought out, highly articulate master of clarity and common sense. Never will I post on this site again. My shame has reduced me to a hapless soul with no purpose to exist in the squalid world of failure and defeat I have created. The fact you dignified my response with your precious time and wisdom forces a tremor of sorrow and humility throughout my body.

After reading your remarks, I am now happy I have the health to even type a response. I now see the world through different eyes. Suddenly, the 7 hour wait is trivial and meaningless. Thank you, you have enlightened and freed my soul.

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Armbar if my sons had not wrestled two classes two of them would have gotten one match each and the third son two matches which I would have paid 75 dollars for.We would not be back for that kind of equity.You ask for help to run things the same and you probably wont get many offers.Ask for help to make some of the suggested changes .Your attitude that people should shut up and feel blessed that they were able too wait excessively long waits and have their brackets messed up or leave because they dont know they have a match coming up is ridiculous,acknowledging there are problems is the first step to fixing them. We experienced all of these things at BGSG this year .I have been to this tourney three years in a row and if some changes are not made wont be back.

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Never will I post on this site again.

I'm not religious but God please let this be true.  If it does I just might attend church on Sunday.

My shame has reduced me to a hapless soul with no purpose to exist in the squalid world of failure and defeat I have created.

I make a motion for you to act on your feelings here and cease to exist.  Can I get a second?

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I'm not religious but God please let this be true.  If it does I just might attend church on Sunday.

I make a motion for you to act on your feelings here and cease to exist.  Can I get a second?

Huntertown Church of the Nazarene, Huntertown Rd., Versailles,KY Service starts at 11:00am on Sundays.

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Guest The Great And Powerful Oz

Armbar if my sons had not wrestled two classes two of them would have gotten one match each and the third son two matches which I would have paid 75 dollars for.We would not be back for that kind of equity.You ask for help to run things the same and you probably wont get many offers.Ask for help to make some of the suggested changes .Your attitude that people should shut up and feel blessed that they were able too wait excessively long waits and have their brackets messed up or leave because they dont know they have a match coming up is ridiculous,acknowledging there are problems is the first step to fixing them. We experienced all of these things at BGSG this year .I have been to this tourney three years in a row and if some changes are not made wont be back.

workhard - well said, and great points.  i think the message is loud and clear.  hopefully this issue is well addressed next year with SESSIONS.  i'm sure it will be.  it's funny armbar thinks that wrestling in multiple brackets automatically means you should wait longer.  NO!! it should only mean you get more matches.  i've taken my son to tournaments in indiana quite a bit (as i think you do as well) and always enter multiple brackets in those USAW tournaments.  it is not frowned upon there.  we end up waiting in a gym less because...and i'll repeat this for the reading impaired....they run the tournaments in SESSIONS....and the bout numbers are posted.  please everyone try to conceptualize this with me - an organized tournament where you walk in and register, and you can easily estimate within 30-60 minutes of when your first match will be.  you can wait in the gym if you want to watch more wrestling, or you can leave and grab a bite to eat, maybe take a stroll in a park.  after your kid wrestles, you know how many more bouts there will be before you are up again.  

i just want to thank IPEA from the bottom of my heart for having the guts to speak out about this issue.  you are a revolutionary and we should make a holiday after you.

people don't ever forget this is truly a family sport.  you have to consider the moms, dads, grandparents, and younger siblings in the stands as well as the wrestlers.  long waits should be avoided if possible, there is absolutely no debating that.

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"...the tournament was run exactly the same as it has been for as long as i remember..."

I know some will say "if it isn't broke, don't fix it". But I also learned a long time ago that if the answer to any question of why something is done the way it is is "we've always done it that way" is an immediate red flag that it probably needs changing. (This is the root of outdated meaningless traditions. Always know why and have a good reason to do what you're doing!!!) I don't say this to be critical but to highlight that for anything to get better, you always need to evaluate and reflect back on results. Be willing to change process. Be willing to try new things. If they don't work, fine, at least you tried in an effort to make it better.

Couple suggestions:


I agree you shouldn't set a deadline for registration but I still feel "promoting" early registration will only help matters; certainly can't hurt. To help promote early registration, do like most other sporting events in that you have a discounted registration fee for early registration. (Also discount registration fee for parents who have multiple kids participating? If the kids wrestling two divisions causes such a headache, charge them for each division they participate in? Don't shoot me; I'm just thinking out loud!)

Establish remote weighin sites a lot sooner. Would be great if could get some of these sights to agree to be permanent so kids know where they can go each year instead of scrambling around at last minute. They just end up waiting to morning of.

Publish a list of jobs (and # of people needed) you need volunteer help for and let folks sign up. I think a lot more people would volunteer if they knew what volunteering for. For us parents who get antsy sitting around all day waiting for our kids to wrestle, volunteering gives us something to do to pass the time and less time to complain.  :wink:

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Wow?!?!

OK my comments broken down.

the main reason you all had to wait is because you all signed up for 2 weight classes. that doubled the matches and doubled the time.

This should not have caused longer waits.  In fact I can remember wrestling 2 wt. classes and not haveing enough time to rest between them.  Wrestling 2 wt. classes should cause wait time to decrease between matches.

I-PINNED-EM-ALL if you r who i think you r you have NOOOOOOOOOOO room to talk about disrespect. i believe i recall you starting an argument with the head table after he changed your sons mistake on the bracket with out even looking at the bout sheets. he took your word for it and respected your word as a man and believed you had been wronged. then you had the nerve to make a comment about the way the tournement was run.

Was he correct?  Was the bracket incorrect?  If so, where is the problem here?  He came down and offered some help in fixing the problem.

did u happen to notice the whole tournement was run by TWO PEOPLE. mr. mccoy and his father. and you have no clue the time and effort it takes until you have done it your self.

Here lies the problem.  As you stated there needs to be more experienced people running this tourney. 

the 352 matches and the 80 brackets were done by mr.mccoy and myself the night before. we were there till almost 12. then came in at 7 am just to be confronted by you and the other crazy friggin parents who argue about anything and everything.

Getting ready the night before is what is suppose to happen.  I hope you had 2 computers with the same program.  Therefore 40 brackets on each would have been much easier and faster to complete.  Since there is no team score this is possible.

i also reffed the tournement and had to listen to all the complaints about the continuous clock. until you run a tournement do not complain.

Must have been your 1st referee gig.  Get use to it.  Complaints happen to reffs all the time, i'm sure you have had a moan or groan at an official before.

you have absolutly no clue what it is like and if i recall mr.mccoy still runs the fastest tournement ive seen in kentucky so far. i've been to almost every tournement kentucky has and BY FAR he is the most efficient. i know you your self have been to tournement where you don't leave the gym till almost 11pm sometimes more.

Ahh yes here lies the problem again.  No one is doubting the other tourneys in which Mr. McCoy has run, only this one.  As for the rest of KY.  The long waits and long tourneys is an epidemic in KY, and needs to be solved.  When you compair yourself to the bottom you always look better.

shut up and be happy your son even got to wrestle. and be glad he is healthy enough to wrestle. take what you have and be happy with it instead of complaining about what goes wrong.

Sure glad you were not around in 1770's.  We may still be part of England if this was a popular belief.

as for the rest of you take what ive said and go with it. volunteer and help at these events to help this go smoother. as you said all you did was sit and wait. do something and help the staff at any tournement. we actually had a few people volunteer and it helped tremenously. if you dont like the way something is run do it your self or shut up. plain and simple.

Volunteering is great, but not if you don't agree with what you must do.  Volunteering so to help change the format may help, but volunteering to help something that is not working won't help.  The Titanic could have had thousands of volunteers but the ship would have still sank.

Bottom line

Because eveyone knows that Coach McCoy can run a great tourney is why there are so many compaints.  All that is asked is that this tourney is run as well as he runs his other tourneys.  If you believe that it was then you need to take a better look.  I'm sure Coach McCoy already knows this and is trying to improve it for next year.  Maybe the problem is qualified volunteers.  If this is the real problem then he needs to state this and let people know months in advance. 

Big mouth out.

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Grappler of Old what a great last post. How can you remain so diplomatic when dealing with some of these numbsculls who don't understand the real issue at hand. Unfortunately, the people who think we should "shut up" and "be thankful are kids are healthy enough to wrestle" also believe the earth is flat. I am happy my son is healthy to wrestle, but, I still want him to achieve his best, win or lose.

Grap of Old, you are now my hero. Coach McCoy's 5 star classic is an awesome tournament, I know he can also make BGSG similiarly great. That is, if Armbar will allow him to change the process. Remember, Armbar's butt has now conformed to the shape of the wooden bleachers from sitting on them year after year for hours on end. Personally, I want to avoid this if possible.

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Guest cmccoy

I agree that change is good. I am looking into making change for next year. The problem is people began making personal attacks (not all) through email and on here rather than just saying what can we do to fix it. I ma not looking for sympathy of gratitude but this how people (referees, coaches, etc) throw in the towel after trying some. I have been around for a while and expect this out of people. Some of us (and I won't say any names) need to learn that we can be constructive in our comments without belittling and attacking the person and situation. This is the only way we will get more referees and others to want to help wrestling to grow.

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Grappler of Old what a great last post. How can you remain so diplomatic when dealing with some of these numbsculls who don't understand the real issue at hand.

I do have an epiphany (College word) every once in a while. 

Just don

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