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Taping matches (Dads With Wrestlers)

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Does anyone know the rules on "taping" matches and meets you are not in, I heard this is not the same as football as far as scouting. Team members from other schools can do what? Patriots of wrestling? Kids' Parents from the other team can take Grampa's video camera and tape, the Dad tapes the meet (a big one), with the son there that wrestles.

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Not sure about the legal part but I would say it would be a stretch of morals.  I saw it this weekend by someone that I wouldn't have expected it from.  I've watched other wrestlers but actual taping and the analyzing there of is a stretch.

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It's hard to stop but a team is only allowed to tape their own teams matches and parents are only allowed to tape the matches of their sons/daughters.  Taping for "scouting" purposes are not allowed.  Now a days with the high quality of video cameras I am sure there are people who tape matches from stands that they are not supposed to.

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Suck it up people. We all live in a competitive world. Like it or not, scouting occurs in every aspect of life, be it business ( Pepsi vs Coke), between Countries (USA vs China) to even, yes, high school sports. I am sure some little candy wimp is going to follow my comment up with this is immoral and wrong and shouldn't happen in high school sports. I say, start getting competitive in life now or get crushed.

Coach K, I can not find anywhere to support what you are saying is correct about not being allowed to video record. Schools or schools representatives are not allowed to video, but the parents can. I tell my son all the time, people are scouting you and likely recording you. Personally, I could care less. I can't wait to hear some whining kid and some whining parent say little junior lost because he was videotaped and the other team learned his moves. Give me a break. Parents or kids who whine about this are likely the losers in wrestling and probably will be the losers in life.

Video tape my son all you want. Momma's video camera isn't going to protect your little skull when it gets ripped off on the mat. Wrestling is not for the meek. If you think high school wrestling is tough, wait until you graduate and start living life in the real competitive world. Mommy and Daddy aren't going to be able to protect you then.

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Suck it up people. We all live in a competitive world. Like it or not, scouting occurs in every aspect of life, be it business ( Pepsi vs Coke), between Countries (USA vs China) to even, yes, high school sports. I am sure some little candy wimp is going to follow my comment up with this is immoral and wrong and shouldn't happen in high school sports. I say, start getting competitive in life now or get crushed.

Coach K, I can not find anywhere to support what you are saying is correct about not being allowed to video record. Schools or schools representatives are not allowed to video, but the parents can. I tell my son all the time, people are scouting you and likely recording you. Personally, I could care less. I can't wait to hear some whining kid and some whining parent say little junior lost because he was videotaped and the other team learned his moves. Give me a break. Parents or kids who whine about this are likely the losers in wrestling and probably will be the losers in life.

Video tape my son all you want. Momma's video camera isn't going to protect your little skull when it gets ripped off on the mat. Wrestling is not for the meek. If you think high school wrestling is tough, wait until you graduate and start living life in the real competitive world. Mommy and Daddy aren't going to be able to protect you then.

Amen.

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Does anyone know the rules on "taping" matches and meets you are not in, I heard this is not the same as football as far as scouting. Team members from other schools can do what? Patriots of wrestling? Kids' Parents from the other team can take Grampa's video camera and tape, the Dad tapes the meet (a big one), with the son there that wrestles.

Ahhh yes, another rambling message from overweight.  The patriots were stealing signals.  That's a far cry from scouting a wrestler.  As far as the KHSAA rules are concerned, I don't see how a parent would even be under the governance of the KHSAA other than being an unruly fan.  Below is a link to the bylaw governing this.  It would depend in my opinion on whether or not the parent was an official "representative" of the school or if they were there on behalf of the school.  If a parent showed up on his own and recorded (yes to gain a competitive advantage) how can that be a violation?  Coaches can't control what a parent, grandparent, uncle, or any other relative does.

http://www.khsaa.org/handbook/bylaws/bylaw11.pdf

If this rule applies to family members with cameras, then better not record the regional finals or the WCI finals unless you have a child in the finals of every weight class.

Overweight - let me point out another rule that has been violated here, isn't it against www.kentuckywrestling.com rules to discuss khsaa rules violations?

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Suck it up people. We all live in a competitive world. Like it or not, scouting occurs in every aspect of life, be it business ( Pepsi vs Coke), between Countries (USA vs China) to even, yes, high school sports. I am sure some little candy wimp is going to follow my comment up with this is immoral and wrong and shouldn't happen in high school sports. I say, start getting competitive in life now or get crushed.

Coach K, I can not find anywhere to support what you are saying is correct about not being allowed to video record. Schools or schools representatives are not allowed to video, but the parents can. I tell my son all the time, people are scouting you and likely recording you. Personally, I could care less. I can't wait to hear some whining kid and some whining parent say little junior lost because he was videotaped and the other team learned his moves. Give me a break. Parents or kids who whine about this are likely the losers in wrestling and probably will be the losers in life.

Video tape my son all you want. Momma's video camera isn't going to protect your little skull when it gets ripped off on the mat. Wrestling is not for the meek. If you think high school wrestling is tough, wait until you graduate and start living life in the real competitive world. Mommy and Daddy aren't going to be able to protect you then.

Bylaw 11 of the khsaa handbook specifically addresses taping and gives a case example.  Bottom line, it is not permitted.  I agree, we live in a competitive world.  But to say that it should be ok would be like saying that Martha Stewart wasn't guilty of insider trading......she was just being "competitive".  Whether or not parents are held to the same rule is more of a gray area than determining whether or not taping is allowed. 

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Bylaw 11 of the khsaa handbook specifically addresses taping and gives a case example.  Bottom line, it is not permitted.  I agree, we live in a competitive world.  But to say that it should be ok would be like saying that Martha Stewart wasn't guilty of insider trading......she was just being "competitive".  Whether or not parents are held to the same rule is more of a gray area than determining whether or not taping is allowed.   

What Martha Stewart did was illegal. There is nothing competitive about cheating. Just like using steroids isn't competitive, it's cheating. There is nothing in KHSAA which states parents taping is "illegal". Some might find it subjectively wrong, but it is not objectively illegal. 

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What Martha Stewart did was illegal. There is nothing competitive about cheating. Just like using steroids isn't competitive, it's cheating. There is nothing in KHSAA which states parents taping is "illegal". Some might find it subjectively wrong, but it is not objectively illegal. 

You must not have read the last sentence.  I agree, it doesn't specifically mention parents compliance. 

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Let's be practical. If a school legally records their own wrestler during a match, can the school lend the video to another school for scouting purposes? Afterall, it was legally recorded.

So lets say for a moment parents can't videotape competitors. Are parents allowed to make written or mental scouting notes. Is any form of scouting illegal or immoral? Should we never look at a child who is going to compete against our junior? If I tell my son the kid he is about to wrestle shoots a low single the second the wrestle blows is that wrong. If junior knows it is coming the second the whistle blows, does it matter if he gets to see it first on video?

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OK I would not have put it the way lilreb put it.  But I do agree with him.

Wrestling is one of the few sports where the motto "Defense win" does not apply. Defensive wrestlers don't become champions. Champions are those wrestlers that are offensive. 

Little advantage can come from viewing videos of your opponent.  You must still work hard to perfect your offense to score points.  Those good wrestlers you are watching will modify their wrestling during the match if what they have used in the past is not working. 

I would prefer to watch my own match so that I can improve myself rather than watch an opposing wrestlers match and find his tendencies. Leave that to the football coaches.

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So if you have a tape of yourself wrestling a guy that you have to wrestle again soon, you can only watch to scout yourself.  This rule is a waste of time and paper, completely unenforcable(sp?).  Shouldn't it also be against the rules to watch a guy wrestle on tv that you may have to wrestle (if more matches were televised).  Lastly, I do agree that if someone feels they need to tape to get an edge, his matches probably don't last long enough for dad to get the camera focused in on him.

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video taping is a very valuable tool, or we wouln't be doing it.  Even if it were for yourself.  It is legal, a little unethical but it is what it is.  Now if your lilreb's son, it apparently won't matter your head will be crushed anyway.  But if you are in between qualifying for state or someone that may or may not place at the state tournament, this can be a great tool to beat someone of equal ability. 

I can remember 2 specific instances this has happened over the years, and the KHSAA back the videotaper.  Basically, nothing can be done to a parent or spectator.  If they represent the school, I guess that could be different.  Pretty gray area!

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Wow, you seem kinda touchy on the subject.  I was merely answering the question that was asked.  As it has already been pointed out it is in the bylaws for KHSAA.  But also like I said I am sure there are those that do it and it's not possible for anyone to know.  I only know of one incident where a person was taping and was told to stop doing it in the last 18 years and he was being blatantly obvious because his son who just finished was standing right next to him.  Lastly I don't think really taping an opponent is going to do too much good.  If you can work on your moves that you want to do and be more offensive than your opponent generally you will do better.

Suck it up people. We all live in a competitive world. Like it or not, scouting occurs in every aspect of life, be it business ( Pepsi vs Coke), between Countries (USA vs China) to even, yes, high school sports. I am sure some little candy wimp is going to follow my comment up with this is immoral and wrong and shouldn't happen in high school sports. I say, start getting competitive in life now or get crushed.

Coach K, I can not find anywhere to support what you are saying is correct about not being allowed to video record. Schools or schools representatives are not allowed to video, but the parents can. I tell my son all the time, people are scouting you and likely recording you. Personally, I could care less. I can't wait to hear some whining kid and some whining parent say little junior lost because he was videotaped and the other team learned his moves. Give me a break. Parents or kids who whine about this are likely the losers in wrestling and probably will be the losers in life.

Video tape my son all you want. Momma's video camera isn't going to protect your little skull when it gets ripped off on the mat. Wrestling is not for the meek. If you think high school wrestling is tough, wait until you graduate and start living life in the real competitive world. Mommy and Daddy aren't going to be able to protect you then.

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Firstly I agree with lilreb's paragraph long speech completely.

Secondly KHSAA bylaws, they mean nothing to parents. They are put there for wrestlers, coaches, and refs.

Thirdly there is over 1 million moves in the wrestling world, a good wrestler only uses at most 6 of those moves. Top move, bottom move, etc. There for your kid should make mental notes of what moves his competitors like to do the most and should learn to counter them.

There for being this arguement [discussion] could go either way.

I stand thought with lilreb and dog101 on this it doesn't matter parents want to video tape let them if your little johnny gets beat because another parent tapes, oh well tell them to practice harder to counter it and hey maybe scout them out yourself.

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For those of you who have to know, my last name is Tyson. My other son, Mike, was in a different sport. People used to videotape him as well. The beauty of them taping him was they knew exactly how they were going to lose. The bell would ring, Mike would throw a left, a right, an uppercut, and then 50-60 seconds later, some loser was on the ground with ammonia capsules wedged up his nose in order to wake up. The videotape helped the opponent learn how to fall to the floor graciously.

Seriously, I really don't care if someone wants to videotape my son. Close, tight wrestling matches are won by blood, sweat and tears, not videos. Thats all I have to say about that!

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Suck it up people. We all live in a competitive world. Like it or not, scouting occurs in every aspect of life, be it business ( Pepsi vs Coke), between Countries (USA vs China) to even, yes, high school sports. I am sure some little candy wimp is going to follow my comment up with this is immoral and wrong and shouldn't happen in high school sports. I say, start getting competitive in life now or get crushed.

Coach K, I can not find anywhere to support what you are saying is correct about not being allowed to video record. Schools or schools representatives are not allowed to video, but the parents can. I tell my son all the time, people are scouting you and likely recording you. Personally, I could care less. I can't wait to hear some whining kid and some whining parent say little junior lost because he was videotaped and the other team learned his moves. Give me a break. Parents or kids who whine about this are likely the losers in wrestling and probably will be the losers in life.

Video tape my son all you want. Momma's video camera isn't going to protect your little skull when it gets ripped off on the mat. Wrestling is not for the meek. If you think high school wrestling is tough, wait until you graduate and start living life in the real competitive world. Mommy and Daddy aren't going to be able to protect you then.

Actually in the case of coke and pepsi, the people that were spying were turned in by the company they tried to give the information too.  Those guys went to prison.

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Actually in the case of coke and pepsi, the people that were spying were turned in by the company they tried to give the information too.  Those guys went to prison.

Shehateme, are you on coke?

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The only people that CAN'T tape other teams wrestlers are members of a team not involved in the match being wrestled(coaches, wrestlers or managers.  Parents or any Joe on the street are free to do as they wish.  But it don't make it OK.  It's greatly frowned upon.  That doesn't mean that it has to be allowed.  The hosting team may tell you to leave the premises.  They did the right thing by telling the guy to leave.

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The only people that CAN'T tape other teams wrestlers are members of a team not involved in the match being wrestled(coaches, wrestlers or managers.  Parents or any Joe on the street are free to do as they wish.  But it don't make it OK.  It's greatly frowned upon.  That doesn't mean that it has to be allowed.  The hosting team may tell you to leave the premises.  They did the right thing by telling the guy to leave.

They did not do the right thing. I assure you, I would not have left, and if I choose, I would have continued recording. Stating "its greatly frowned upon" is an opinion only. I don't frown upon it. Many people don't frown upon it. Perhaps some do frown upon it. Intimidation and some athletic director blowing air stating taping is illegal is simply incorrect. Once again, it is not illegal for parents to videotape wrestlers. Remember, this is a public activity performed on public grounds. These venues are open to the public! Just because some athletic director used to bullying around students all day long says something is illegal doesn't make it correct. Americans do have rights. When the newspaper reporters take pictures of wrestlers, do they ask parents permission first. No! The child is wrestling in public at a public event.

Personally, I believe if a parent is willing to be dedicated enough to videotape competition than more power to them. It least they are interested in their child's sports and not like some fathers sucking down beer at the local pub ignoring their children. Like I said, it is competition. That means competitive. That means out training, out maneuvering, out smarting your opponent. Lets not sugar coat it. If the father is willing to take his time to videorecord, then maybe the child is willing to train a little harder.

I believe the act of videotaping is only a mind game played on the mentally weak. I might start videotaping other kids so their parents might start whining and crying and cause their little junior to lose focus and think someone else now has an advantage. Little junior will crack because mommy says the other person stole their strategy and no way can they win. Match over! Junior, just like whining mom and dad, lost the mental edge.

OK, I am being a jerk and a bonehead. But really, what is the big deal. If someone is being videorecorded, be honored that someone thinks of you as a worthy opponent.

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