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Where was Eastern at Region 5 Duals?

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Funny you use football.  I don't like football for many reasons. 

But I do understand your analogy.  It just seems the switching wt. classes has become the rule instead of the acception any more.

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Funny you use football.  I don't like football for many reasons. 

But I do understand your analogy.  It just seems the switching wt. classes has become the rule instead of the acception any more.

Yeah, it makes it more interesting.  A little gamesmanship and strategy.

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OK coach for you this will be my last reply on this subject.

    What I see when coach moves a 160 up to 171 to match up better with a team, is a coach that has no faith in their current 171.  If I were the one being moved out I would do it because the coach asked me to, but I would be insulted.

    Basically what you are telling this wrestler is that you (The coach) have little or no faith in their ability to win the match.  If it is a move up to match up instead of a forfeit is another story. 

    People view things differently.  Just put yourself in this kids shoes who has to give up his spot.  Yeah I know he is doing it for the team, but it still does not make you feel good about it. 

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    We had much success back in my hayday, (and hopefully they will again soon, now that they have the opportunity again).  The team almost always finished higher than my own individual placement.  

    However few of us put any merit in the team trophy. It was fun bringing home a 1st or 2nd place team trophy but we reveled more in our individual medals. We realized that placing as high as you could in a tourney was more gratifying and it also helped the team, but the team took a backseat.  We cheered each other on and hoped for victory in everyones matches, but we never worried about scoring that extra point or two in a match to get the major or superior (no tech falls back then) to get the extra points.  Heck I would even bet most of us didn't know what a major or a superior was or that it scored the team more points.

Wow, this thread just blew up...i love it....

It sounds like GOO is a close relative to schmegal from lord of the rings, instead of obsessing over the ring, "my precious, precious medal...."

Olympic_wish, you are so right.  That team atmosphere is important.  GOO, for a looooongggg time you have been saying on here that it's an individual sport, not a team sport.  That may be your opinion, and that's fine....but if that were most people's opinions, we wouldn't keep team scores at state....we wouldn't have dual meets.  As a wrestler and as a coach, my most fondest memories are of team accomplishments.  I watched a m.s. dual meet tournament years ago where a team was getting SMOKED by larue, and those kids were up and cheering like you can't imagine for their team mates to not get pinned.  They had a great team experience.  That's what it's all about, this sport should be fun for the kids.

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OK coach for you this will be my last reply on this subject.

     What I see when coach moves a 160 up to 171 to match up better with a team, is a coach that has no faith in their current 171.  If I were the one being moved out I would do it because the coach asked me to, but I would be insulted.

     Basically what you are telling this wrestler is that you (The coach) have little or no faith in their ability to win the match.  If it is a move up to match up instead of a forfeit is another story. 

     People view things differently.  Just put yourself in this kids shoes who has to give up his spot.  Yeah I know he is doing it for the team, but it still does not make you feel good about it. 

Most good coaches are sensitive to a kid's ego.  They're not going to tell a kid...you suck, we need to bump you up, etc....  I don't think this hurts a kid's feelings that much, it is very much strategic to move kids around and from the kids persepective, they probably just want to win the dual meet.  Most kids feel very loyal towards their team, and don't get insulted when a coach tells them "I'm going to bump you up because I think you can beat their BIGGER kid, and i think we will score more team points if things work out"

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Most good coaches are sensitive to a kid's ego.  They're not going to tell a kid...you suck, we need to bump you up, etc....  I don't think this hurts a kid's feelings that much, it is very much strategic to move kids around and from the kids persepective, they probably just want to win the dual meet.  Most kids feel very loyal towards their team, and don't get insulted when a coach tells them "I'm going to bump you up because I think you can beat their BIGGER kid, and i think we will score more team points if things work out"

    I will say this.  My son is not feeling real good about himself right now.  He was told that this weekend at the middle school state duals he will bump up to 124 and the 124 will move down to 117 depending on the tougher matches.  He will get the weaker of the two.

    I found this out by accident, I overheard him talking to one of his friends last night how he feels inferior (my words not his), he used your highlighted example. He will never complain to his coach, and will do whatever he is asked to do.  I also will not question the coach as a parent.  If they are trying to win each dual this is probably the correct move to make, since winning the dual is what it's all about.

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BL - not trying to dwell on a sore subject, but by chance did they both wrestle off for the 117 spot and your son lost?  If so, maybe that would make sense from a coaching perspective...but i see your point, and that does stink.  Hope it doesn't turn your son against the sport, especially at the m.s. level.  H.S., this happens all the time, we may not like it but to quote IPEA - "it's not a sport for the meek".  A kid bumps into your spot, your spot is gone.  If the coach & team want to win a dual, they will swap their lineup around for the whatever's best for the team.  That's just how it goes.

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No they have not wrestled off.  However my son would probably lose if they did.  He would then be the 124 varsity, they are the best two at those weights.  The situation still would not change, I don't have a problem with it.  I'm sure he will get over it.  If it is the worst thing that ever hapens to him in his life he will be a happy man. 

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All coaches have their reasons for attending or not attending regional duals.  Whatever their reasons, they are just trying to do what is best for their kids & team.  I know personally at Doss, we don't have a chance to be top 2 at our regional dual meet.  We have some kids hurt & are missing a few weight classes.  However, I choose to attend the regional duals because I am using it as a chance to secure regional seeds for my kids at the regional championship.  Even though we may see the teams in our region several times, with the way the weight descent plan is, many of my kids were not competing at their current weight until recently.  Since regional seedings in our region are based on your regional winning % in your weight class in addition to who you have beaten that will competing in that same weight class, even though I know we won't make state duals, I choose to attend the regional duals.  So in hindsight, whether you like it or not, whatever reason Eastern had for not attending the Region 5 duals, I'm sure the coach was doing what he thought was best for his team. 

    Now, as far as bumping kids around weight classes, I will do that if I feel it will create a better match up for my kids or gives us a chance to win a dual meet.  I will not swap kids & move one kid up & one kid down just because one may be better than the other.  I will move (for example) my 135 to 140 & my 140 to 145, if the other team does not have a 135, but does have a 140 & 145.  Against regional opponents, I do not bump unless the other team does not have a wrestler given weight class & we do.  For example, if we have a 135 & they don't, but they have a 140 & we don't, I will move my 135 up. 

    Finally for GOO, you stated that Ranger's team picked him up because they wanted him to succeed & they didn't do it for the team.  I thought that was what a team is supposed to be, a collective group of individuals who push each other to be the best they can be & support each other no matter the outcome or how many of you there are.  So I guess I'm saying they really did do it for the team since her was a part of that team concept.  By the way, BL, Ranger, GOO, PP, etc. all very good points you have previously stated.  Even though this thread, like many others, has drifted off course from its original intent, I didn't mind this one so much because there were many good points & ways to look at the team/individual concept brought to the forefront.  None of them are right or wrong, it just depends on your individual preference.

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