Post State Thoughts

[Wrestling247365 1]

1 hour ago, halfhalfhalf said:

Just because they've all been there before and have called high level matches is subjective. Especially when the calls are hit and miss at best for a few.  I have kept quiet publicly on this but those who I respect and talk too on issues I have said this too. What needs to occur/brought back is an evaluation process of officials similar to how it was when I first came to KY and the senior officials who are out/getting out to be out evaluating and mentoring young officials. 

You want to increase the number of referees?? Then teams with a big coaching staff quit hoarding coaches and send one to get ref certified. It's okay to miss one when you have 7-10 coaches on staff. There are currently 4 teams out of 122 that have VARSITY coaches who have reffed this season to include 2 of the 4 reffing in a tournament their team is in. 

 

 

 

 

 

Couldn't agree more on having coaches licensed! I understand the programs that have 1 or 2 coaches. But the ones that have 4 or more, have them get their liscense. Only if they work 1 or 2 events all season it makes it that easier to get events covered. When youth and middle school took off 20 year ago or so we saw a huge decline in younger officials getting on the mats. They went into coaching instead. We need younger officials now more than ever. But we cant have youth, middle, and high school coaches screaming and yelling at them. Running them off and leaving a bad taste in their mouths. There will be multiple events canceled due to lack of officials. Already having a few a season right now. Fill out the info below to recieve information on how to become an official 

https://www.jotform.com/230434326549052

 

 

 

[halfhalfhalf 121]

1 minute ago, Wrestling247365 said:

Couldn't agree more on having coaches licensed! I understand the programs that have 1 or 2 coaches. But the ones that have 4 or more, have them get their liscense. Only if they work 1 or 2 events all season it makes it that easier to get events covered. When youth and middle school took off 20 year ago or so we saw a huge decline in younger officials getting on the mats. They went into coaching instead. We need younger officials now more than ever. But we cant have youth, middle, and high school coaches screaming and yelling at them. Running them off and leaving a bad taste in their mouths. There will be multiple events canceled due to lack of officials. Already having a few a season right now. Fill out the info below to recieve information on how to become an official 

https://www.jotform.com/230434326549052

 

 

 

In my experience.... It's more youth and middle school coaches screaming and yelling. HS Coaches at times do, but it is NO where near as bad as it was 5-6 years ago. There is a difference in having a conversation during a heated moment and being cussed out. If that occurs they can be removed. Which needs to occur more to get the problem under control more so at the youth levels. 

[grappler-of-old 44]

1 hour ago, Ranger123 said:

Good stuff there GOO.  Sort of surprised at the balance between semi-states, but with only a 16 man bracket (8-8 split) it almost forces a certain level of balance.  I think the finalist and champ numbers confirm SS1 was clearly stronger at the top this year.  And region 1 is TOUGH right now.

This is reminiscent of the good ole days when Hop-town and Christian were dominating in the West with Caldwell and Union not far behind. 

[Bobby Lee Schwartz 1]

19 hours ago, OhioWrestler&Reff68 said:

So Scotty, we now have to pick and choose when to call stalling or any other calls and forgo the rule book?  In all my years and all the places that I've officiated I've never heard of this "unwritten rule".  Is it a KY rule that I haven't learned yet?  I remember Herron getting called for stalling for having the foot pinned against the butt and it was call with a few seconds left.  I guess there are others who don't know about this rule besides Andrew Dennison. Rule book is clear on the matter, and I saw that JackFlash posted it word for word from both books.  I am missing where is says-just never ever do it in a state championship match and all others its ok to call?

-Andrew Dennison

I thought this was interesting...

From the Courier Journal

"Ferree won the 157-pound state title last year but said it wasn’t completely satisfying because the victory was sealed on a stalling violation." 

“That kind of haunted me ever since because I felt like people could always hang an asterisk,” Ferree said. “But tonight was my moment to prove to people that I was worthy of this title and that I deserved it. It feels great to go down in the books as one of those great Trinity wrestlers.”

"Guillaume’s 2-1 victory over Whitehead was sealed with a somewhat controversial stalling call in the final seconds."

[CoachBauer 5]

1 hour ago, Bobby Lee Schwartz said:

I thought this was interesting...

From the Courier Journal

"Ferree won the 157-pound state title last year but said it wasn’t completely satisfying because the victory was sealed on a stalling violation." 

“That kind of haunted me ever since because I felt like people could always hang an asterisk,” Ferree said. “But tonight was my moment to prove to people that I was worthy of this title and that I deserved it. It feels great to go down in the books as one of those great Trinity wrestlers.”

"Guillaume’s 2-1 victory over Whitehead was sealed with a somewhat controversial stalling call in the final seconds."

Not overly surprising. Jason Frakes that writes the courier journal hs sports articles has held a pro-Trinity anti-St.X stance for years. It was so bad that when St. X won in 2013 the coaches declined to be interviewed by him. 

[Wrestling247365 1]

2 hours ago, halfhalfhalf said:

In my experience.... It's more youth and middle school coaches screaming and yelling. HS Coaches at times do, but it is NO where near as bad as it was 5-6 years ago. There is a difference in having a conversation during a heated moment and being cussed out. If that occurs they can be removed. Which needs to occur more to get the problem under control more so at the youth levels. 

Correct youth and middle school are used as training grounds a lot of times. That's were we loose the younger officials 

[GentleBeard 145]

15 minutes ago, CoachBauer said:

Not overly surprising. Jason Frakes that writes the courier journal hs sports articles has held a pro-Trinity anti-St.X stance for years. It was so bad that when St. X won in 2013 the coaches declined to be interviewed by him. 

Both statements can be true.

[Ranchy 7]

6 hours ago, Ranger123 said:

Good stuff there GOO.  Sort of surprised at the balance between semi-states, but with only a 16 man bracket (8-8 split) it almost forces a certain level of balance.  I think the finalist and champ numbers confirm SS1 was clearly stronger at the top this year.  And region 1 is TOUGH right now.

 

6 hours ago, grappler-of-old said:

Time to change gears a little bit. 

Here are the stats on State. 

Semi Stat in Order

Placers----------------Finalists--------------Champs--------------Team points

SS1----56               SS1----17               SS1----11               SS2----799

SS2----56               SS2----11               SS2----2                 SS1----773

Region in order

Placers---------------Finalists----------Champs-------Team Points

R1----22                 R1----8              R1----6            R1----392

R5----21                 R3----6              R3----3            R5----278

R3----18                 R4----4              R2----2            R3----266

R6----14                 R5----3              R5----2            R6----229.5

R7----13                 R2----2              R7----1            R7----159.5

R4----9                   R7----2              R4----0            R8----131

R8----8                   R8----2              R6----0            R4----120.5

R2----7                   R4----1              R8----0            R2----115

I thought there were three champs from ss2 Blevins evans and isn’t reeves from ss2?

[grappler-of-old 44]

Yep that was a typo I fixed it. 

[grappler-of-old 44]

Best throw of the tournament that I saw was Charlie McKune in his 3rd place match against Ricketts. Does anyone have a video or picture of that throw? 

[coachteater 70]

5 minutes ago, grappler-of-old said:

Best throw of the tournament that I saw was Charlie McKune in his 3rd place match against Ricketts. Does anyone have a video or picture of that throw? 

I know you dont do fb, instagram, or tiktok, but its on moores pages. 

[halfhalfhalf 121]

2 minutes ago, coachteater said:

I know you dont do fb, instagram, or tiktok, but its on moores pages. 

forward it to me.

[grappler-of-old 44]

Now c'mon I may not use them but I do have a fb. lol 

[Brody’sbrother 1]

1 hour ago, grappler-of-old said:

Best throw of the tournament that I saw was Charlie McKune in his 3rd place match against Ricketts. Does anyone have a video or picture of that throw? 

Here is the link to the match Charlie McKune vs Lucas Ricketts it’s at 2:40

 

[grappler-of-old 44]

Thank you.  I saw it from the opposite direction.  This angle does not really show just how much of an arch Charlie had on this throw.  He  arched so far he was facing the mat before they hit. 

[Brody’sbrother 1]

17 minutes ago, grappler-of-old said:

Thank you.  I saw it from the opposite direction.  This angle does not really show just how much of an arch Charlie had on this throw.  He  arched so far he was facing the mat before they hit. 

Here’s the floor video

 

[grappler-of-old 44]

Here are some more stats comparing Semi State 1 and 2

Semi State 1 won 214 matches Semi State 2 won 206 matches.

The most dominating Semi State weight class was at 113 Where Semi State 2 won 21 matches to Semi State 2 winning 9 matches. 

Here is where each Semi State faired in weight classes. 

SS1

157-- 19 to 11

190-- 19 to 11

150--18 to 12

165-- 18 to 12

175-- 18 to 12

138-- 16 to 14

 

SS2

113-- 21 to 9

126-- 20 to 10

106-- 16 to 14

132-- 16 to 14

Hwt-- 16 to 14

 

Tied

120-- 15 to 15

144-- 15 to 15

215-- 15 to 15

Maybe if I get time I will compare regions. 

Yes I know I am a nerd. 

[wrestling fan 3]

On 2/27/2023 at 2:11 PM, GentleBeard said:

I wonder where that ranks all-time? I feel like that amount of state titles in a single bracket is an all-timer.

Add another, Nick Giompalo just won his 2nd state title for Cabell Midland at 190 lbs.

[Alien01 6]

On 2/26/2023 at 10:05 PM, Ol'School ky said:

I saw that match differently than you guys,  I thought the MS kid was definitely the aggressor for most of the match.  St. X kid could have been called for stalling several times but wasnt.  Locking in double unders and pushing out of bounds, i saw that called as a stall on the pusher all weekend.  I felt bad for the MS kid.  Bad way to lose a finals match.  I will say i have seen that official blow alot of matches and has a huge ego problem, when approached by coaches he is dismissive and condescending to them.  Just my opinion.

The person being backed out has the responsibility to circle back in or get hit with stalling. Gets called like that Nationwide.

[Alien01 6]

On 3/1/2023 at 11:03 AM, Brody’sbrother said:

Here’s the floor video

 

the Greco Roman he does in the off season really show's in Charlie's matches when people come forward on him with underhooks,1 underhook  or over under.

[385 109]

On 2/27/2023 at 12:26 PM, gameface said:

Add another state champ from Campbell County 2022, Jonah Bowers and Brayden Brown is at Legacy in Ohio. That’s at least 12-13 state titles in that bracket. 

I remember little Nate Sawyer always looked so mean, but was such a nice kid. Did Nate give up wrestling in high school? 

[gameface 253]

On 3/4/2023 at 9:14 PM, wrestling fan said:

Add another, Nick Giompalo just won his 2nd state title for Cabell Midland at 190 lbs.

That’s pretty impressive. Congratulations to Nicky G on another State Championship!! Awesome young man. Hard to believe that Nick and Jude were the same size as Cole and Spencer. LOL

[grappler-of-old 44]

OK I went all nerd again with the statistics.  I looked at all the teams in each region and determined how many wt classes each team filled. 

this is what I came up with. 

I found it interesting that the largest number of teams had a full squad (20 teams had 14 wrestlers at region)

Team Count	R1	R2	R3	R4	R5	R6	R7	R8	Total
14	2	3	3	3	2	3	1	3	20
13	3	2	2	1	2	1	0	1	12
12	1	2	2	0	2	1	0	1	9
11	1	0	2	2	3	1	4	1	14
10	3	2	1	1	1	3	2	2	15
9	1	0	1	6	2	1	1	1	13
8	1	0	2	1	0	2	1	3	10
7	0	2	1	2	0	0	3	0	8
6	1	0	0	0	1	1	0	2	5
5	0	1	0	1	0	0	1	2	5
4	0	2	1	0	0	0	0	0	3
3	1	0	0	0	0	1	0	3	5
2	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	1	1
1	0	1	0	0	0	0	0	0	1
Total Wrestlers	146	140	160	168	145	142	121	164	1186
# Teams	14	15	15	17	13	14	13	20
		Wrestlers			Wrestlers			# Teams		# Teams
	R4	168		SS1	614		R8	20		SS1	61
	R8	164		SS2	572		R4	17		SS2	60
	R3	160					R2	15
	R1	146					R3	15
	R5	145					R1	14
	R6	142					R6	14
	R2	140					R5	13
	R7	121					R7	13
	Total	1186					Total	121

Region wrestler and teams.xlsx

[Debo 5]

KHSAA needs to change the rules back that 19 year olds are ineligible to compete in athletics! A 19 year old competing against a 14-16 year old should not be allowed! If you place as a 19 year old there should definitely be an asterisk next to their name! Kentucky is one of the few states where this is still allowed!

coaches, parents and fans complain about officiating at every level from amateur to professional! One thing is you never here Champions complaining! Stop using the officials as an excuse! Yes there are bad calls here and there but Champions overcome! To everybody that complains I’m sure the state would be more than happy to have you sign up and start officiating!

[grappler-of-old 44]

5 hours ago, Debo said:

KHSAA needs to change the rules back that 19 year olds are ineligible to compete in athletics! A 19 year old competing against a 14-16 year old should not be allowed! If you place as a 19 year old there should definitely be an asterisk next to their name! Kentucky is one of the few states where this is still allowed!

coaches, parents and fans complain about officiating at every level from amateur to professional! One thing is you never here Champions complaining! Stop using the officials as an excuse! Yes there are bad calls here and there but Champions overcome! To everybody that complains I’m sure the state would be more than happy to have you sign up and start officiating!

19 year old's have always been allowed to compete.  The cut off was changed form (you must be 18 when the season started to, You must be 18 when August started) 

Why punish a kid who may have struggled in gradeschool?  

If you look at my other post in "Sportsmanship" you can see that KY is more strict than others at age.