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I have the same picture! This tournament was the first time Jude ever beat Braedon. I think Braedon may have been 4-0 against Jude until this day. I remember watching braedon at maybe 7 years old and thinking he was the most technical small kid I have ever seen. So happy for him and what he accomplished this year. 

CFFDEA57-933D-4603-88B7-817633820053.png

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8 hours ago, Ol'School ky said:

I saw that match differently than you guys,  I thought the MS kid was definitely the aggressor for most of the match.  St. X kid could have been called for stalling several times but wasnt.  Locking in double unders and pushing out of bounds, i saw that called as a stall on the pusher all weekend.  I felt bad for the MS kid.  Bad way to lose a finals match.  I will say i have seen that official blow alot of matches and has a huge ego problem, when approached by coaches he is dismissive and condescending to them.  Just my opinion.

I felt the same way and several around me felt the same way. 

I also feel regardless of if was technically the right call (everyone will argue if yes or no) there is an "unwritten rule" that you just do not make that call, in that situation. Am I wrong?

Thats the kind of call thats talked about 20 years in a negative way regardless of if it was right or wrong.I can think of at least one like this that still get talked about frequently and it was 25 years ago. 

Ive always said this and most agree, the best officials are the ones that will not decide a tight match. 

 

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26 minutes ago, coachteater said:

I felt the same way and several around me felt the same way. 

I also feel regardless of if was technically the right call (everyone will argue if yes or no) there is an "unwritten rule" that you just do not make that call, in that situation. Am I wrong?

Thats the kind of call thats talked about 20 years in a negative way regardless of if it was right or wrong.I can think of at least one like this that still get talked about frequently and it was 25 years ago. 

Ive always said this and most agree, the best officials are the ones that will not decide a tight match. 

 

Completely agreed. Was it stalling? Yes. Should that ever be called to decide a state championship? Absolutely not. 
 

I feel like most of our officials do a great job. Some are not perfect but try their honest best. And then there are a select 2 or 3 that look to involve themselves no matter what. 

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27 minutes ago, El Pollo Loco said:

That's the coaches association foul up right there. 

KHSAA gives out the coin sized medals.

I posted in another thread as well, but yes it was the kywca awards. The company that made them did not update the year, the order was correct. The company is making new plates and they will sent to coaches as soon as we have them. 

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8 hours ago, GentleBeard said:

You’re right. My eyes are lying.

6C546105-B63D-4932-9E9F-FAD5D1D6F524.jpeg

Just playing devil's advocate here?  Was the bottom wrestler completely off his base? He is on his side not his belly as pictured above?   

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11 hours ago, BroOfCoach said:

So you're the ref that made the call!?

No, was one in the gym at the time of the call and other calls being discussed. No dog in the fight just observations of the rules and how they apply. 

 

On 2/25/2023 at 6:32 PM, The Deputy said:

Who are the clowns that are sitting  at the finals table that are talking about the officials? Whoever it is felt like the 132 finals should have ended on a stalling call instead of letting it go to overtime. Even questioned why Rocky didn’t call the stalling that would have given the kid from Great Crossing the win. 
 

 

8 hours ago, GentleBeard said:

You’re right. My eyes are lying.

6C546105-B63D-4932-9E9F-FAD5D1D6F524.jpeg

 

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No photo description available.Here's Another podium full of studs...Frazier, Grandstaff, Moore, Thomas, Herron.  A lot of state titles in one picture. That bracket also had Jeffrey Kinley, Jude Powell, and Nick Giompalo.  Crazy.

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6 minutes ago, grappler-of-old said:

Just playing devil's advocate here?  Was the bottom wrestler completely off his base? He is on his side not his belly as pictured above?   

Frazier actually has more control of his opponent than the casebook suggests he needs for him to be considered in control.  His opponent's right knee is nearly touching Frazier's left knee.  I'm pretty sure if a wrestler is on their hip, they are off their base.

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12 minutes ago, grappler-of-old said:

Just playing devil's advocate here?  Was the bottom wrestler completely off his base? He is on his side not his belly as pictured above?   

It doesn't look like he is applying a cross face as well, just by looking at his body position in the still photo. The top wrestler looks very forward and maybe that was the deciding factor in the call.

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4 hours ago, 385 said:

I have the same picture! This tournament was the first time Jude ever beat Braedon. I think Braedon may have been 4-0 against Jude until this day. I remember watching braedon at maybe 7 years old and thinking he was the most technical small kid I have ever seen. So happy for him and what he accomplished this year. 

CFFDEA57-933D-4603-88B7-817633820053.png

Such a cool picture.

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19 minutes ago, JackFlash said:

No, was one in the gym at the time of the call and other calls being discussed. No dog in the fight just observations of the rules and how they apply. 

 

 

 

Same here. No dog in the fight. No sour grapes. Not coaching. Just pointed out what I thought were some blown calls in the biggest moments of the tournament. 

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54 minutes ago, JackFlash said:

It doesn't look like he is applying a cross face as well, just by looking at his body position in the still photo. The top wrestler looks very forward and maybe that was the deciding factor in the call.

Not only did he have the cross face (which isn’t mandated to have), but he held that position past reaction…plus 12 more seconds. When he didn’t get his 2 awarded after holding position for 12 seconds, he put his arms behind his opponents to see if that would trigger a takedown. He had more control of his opponent than what’s necessary via the casebook.

 

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1 minute ago, GentleBeard said:

Not only did he have the cross face, but he held that position past reaction…plus 12 more seconds. When he didn’t get his 2 awarded, he put his arms behind his opponents to see if that would trigger a takedown. He had more control of his opponent than what’s necessary via the casebook.

I do remember him putting his hands behind his opponent's arms trying to see if that would change things.

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All in all I thought it was a really good state tournament. Epically the finals! A lot of fun moments! Glad they did face offs and had the blue podium from years past .
 

Frazier vs brown was match of the tournament. It was something out of a wwf match when the coach brought out the rule book. Haven’t seen that before lol! All jokes aside the coach was right that should have been 2 with the leg locked.

 

at the end of the day don’t leave it up to the refs ! Decide your own fate ex 285. The STX heavy took 2 or 3 shots in the final period if memory serves me right. I thought maybe both could have been hit for stalling but it’s a heavyweight match. I think the stall on MS was fair
 

Impressed with 175 from union . Got his knee banged up late . A lot of kids might stop and forfeit out but he kept going. Jude is a beast and was just too much to handle . Props to him

next year I am hopefull we could have state at freedom hall but I will settle for horse park ! 

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As far as officiating went this year it wasn’t bad…definitely saw more inconsistencies in past years. 
The stalling calls are just par for the course at this point, something coaches, wrestlers and parents just have to deal with. This is a topic that gets revisited after every state tournament. 
Question, what is the correct call on a wrestler upper cutting, literally throwing a punch to the groin of their opponent? Said wrestler was in the top position and the punch from behind and between the legs. 
 

The explanation given from the ref was it didn’t make contact so it wasn’t called. I M O that’s like saying someone take a swing at another person’s head but if it misses, it’s a no call? Is that right?

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1 minute ago, matreturn said:

As far as officiating went this year it wasn’t bad…definitely saw more inconsistencies in past years. 
The stalling calls are just par for the course at this point, something coaches, wrestlers and parents just have to deal with. This is a topic that gets revisited after every state tournament. 
Question, what is the correct call on a wrestler upper cutting, literally throwing a punch to the groin of their opponent? Said wrestler was in the top position and the punch from behind and between the legs. 
 

The explanation given from the ref was it didn’t make contact so it wasn’t called. I M O that’s like saying someone take a swing at another person’s head but if it misses, it’s a no call? Is that right?

I saw a kid get uppercutted in the nose at the Semi state 2 165 final. All it was called is a 1 point unsportsmanlike. Who knows at this point.

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20 minutes ago, GentleBeard said:

Not only did he have the cross face (which isn’t a rule to have), but he held that position past reaction…plus 12 more seconds. When he didn’t get his 2 awarded after holding position for 12 seconds, he put his arms behind his opponents to see if that would trigger a takedown. He had more control of his opponent than what’s necessary via the casebook.

I never stated that it was the rule, but when you control the head, you can control other parts of the body.  I'm looking only at the still picture that you posted for discussion in how it relates to the picture in the rule book. Post the full 10-25sec of the video if that's what you want to discuss. 

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19 minutes ago, JackFlash said:

I never stated that it was the rule, but when you control the head, you can control other parts of the body.  I'm looking only at the still picture that you posted for discussion in how it relates to the picture in the rule book. Post the full 10-25sec of the video if that's what you want to discuss. 

1017853402_46seconds.thumb.jpeg.f30516e247aed4d0952c9617bc8bd0ea.jpeg1817302977_40seconds.thumb.jpeg.0754460cb565a0bd0bd87e55b541cdea.jpeg110840060_34seconds.thumb.jpeg.077cad114afa25db4da45168fdc96879.jpegbook.thumb.jpeg.694d895b23b50528c4318668e7ae3fb7.jpeg

Looks like TWO!!!

 

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All in all it was great some matches and there was some problems or disagreements of course its ran by humans for humans and none are prefect. As for the Stalling calls or no calls I would just say I don't think it would be as a bad or look as bad a thing if it was called all year. From the mat returns in 5 seconds to getting ran out of bounds they are never called during the year consistently but at state you are hit with them really quick. It wasn't called like that at semi-state either. That was the biggest complaint I heard about the calls is just do it all year.  Is it the rule yes so lets call it all the time. 

As for the location and school I think it is an amazing school but just way to many people and uncomfortable seating to host an event for that many hours. By the second day your back is killing ya, butts are hurting and tempers are high.  I heard the people next to us ask really nice for people to sit down by rails (which was announced all day not stand at ) so they could see only to be cussed out by more than one group of people. This is partly due to KHSAA having rules and not enforcing them and not having suitable seating for people to all be able to see or be comfortable while doing so. Its wrestling we are all used to long days but with so much at stake and as long as it is we need some comfort too. I think under the conditions it was ran good and congrats to all the winners and kids that made it that far.

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2 hours ago, GentleBeard said:

No photo description available.Here's Another podium full of studs...Frazier, Grandstaff, Moore, Thomas, Herron.  A lot of state titles in one picture. That bracket also had Jeffrey Kinley, Jude Powell, and Nick Giompalo.  Crazy.

Great Throwback picture!! Thank you for sharing. I believe several of those kids were in Elementary school at the time too. Just on the podium alone is at least 9 state HS titles. Does anyone know who the kid In 4th place is. Obviously tough as nails, placed higher than my kid on the podium

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