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DrBaker

Not looking forward to state.

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23 hours ago, BE BRAVE said:

You can easily run a 32 man bracket with all the bells and whistles and be done in one day. Middle School has proven it for the last 3-4 years. Even in 2020-2021 at the height of Covid protocol. Look it up. 
 

here’s what you need. 10 mats, start at 8:00AM sharp. Run it on track open mat available. NO BREAKS IN COMPETITION UNTIL AND ONLY FOR BREAK DOWN OF MATS AND FACE OFF. 

This has been done for several years now at the middle school level. That’s a fact can not be disputed. 
 

I forgot to add in my first post 32 man brackets that are SEEDED  

 

I disagree with this statement. Middle school doesnt follow same rules as High School. There is a strict 45 min between match rule that the high school has to go by that middle school uses none. My kid wrestled a match and by the time he got back to his sit he was already back on the board. His wait between matches wasnt even 25 mins. I do like the 32 but you will need the second day.

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Freedom Hall in Louisville is the answer if it can hold 8 mats, which I think it can.  It has enough seating/parking/hotels, has no horse park dust, is a legit arena, and is east/west centrally located.  This didn't occur before due to conflict with the National Farm Machinery Show.  However, semi-state pushed the final state tournament back a week and the show's dates have stayed the same.  The KHSAA should simply return to the previous format (32-man bracket, 2-day tournament, regions the week before), and just end the season on the 4th weekend of February like it does now.

These are the other events happening at the Expo Center this weekend.  The USA Gymnastics Winter Cup changes places every year.  The only issue I can see is maybe the gun show, but it's in one/some of those rooms while the tournament would obviously be in the arena; the Expo Center is a huge complex.

Just an idea that would minimize logistics and, I think, would check all the boxes.  I imagine it is much cheaper than the Yum Center or Rupp Arena also.

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1 hour ago, panthers said:

I disagree with this statement. Middle school doesnt follow same rules as High School. There is a strict 45 min between match rule that the high school has to go by that middle school uses none. My kid wrestled a match and by the time he got back to his sit he was already back on the board. His wait between matches wasnt even 25 mins. I do like the 32 but you will need the second day.

Track wrestling keeps a time of when the last match ended.  It will not allow the next match to start until the 45 minutes has elapsed.  When the whistle blew on his last match the time begins, it may not have seemed like 45 minutes but I would almost guarantee it was. The 45 minutes is from end of last match to beginning of next match. 

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14 minutes ago, Zeus said:

Freedom Hall in Louisville is the answer if it can hold 8 mats, which I think it can.  It has enough seating/parking/hotels, has no horse park dust, is a legit arena, and is east/west centrally located.  This didn't occur before due to conflict with the National Farm Machinery Show.  However, semi-state pushed the final state tournament back a week and the show's dates have stayed the same.  The KHSAA should simply return to the previous format (32-man bracket, 2-day tournament, regions the week before), and just end the season on the 4th weekend of February like it does now.

These are the other events happening at the Expo Center this weekend.  The USA Gymnastics Winter Cup changes places every year.  The only issue I can see is maybe the gun show, but it's in one/some of those rooms while the tournament would obviously be in the arena; the Expo Center is a huge complex.

Just an idea that would minimize logistics and, I think, would check all the boxes.  I imagine it is much cheaper than the Yum Center or Rupp Arena also.

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expo center will not happen. If you people complained about horse park with parking at least you got to come and go. Expo center and Freedom hall you're stuck. If you leave you're paying for parking each time. This is to include busses. This is non-negotiable or when I called to ask about it. 

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Been around the sport in KY a while…long enough to remember the Horse Park venue. When my kid qualified for state and I walked into that building I was legit overwhelmed. It was like nothing I had ever seen before and the experience of the whole thing from the tournament of champions to the simultaneous matches, the fan all cheering on their wrestlers, the face off/podium at the end…it was amazing. It was what the cream of the crop should have when then achieve that level of competition. Anything else is quite frankly a disservice to the participants, the high school programs and KHSAA, because in the end  anything less makes KHSAA look bad whether they want to believe that or not.

Every year we have this discussion and there seems to be an impenetrable gap between KY Wrestling and KHSAA and what ever conversations have taken place between the two have yielded little progress on a solution.  
Just a question: is media attention to this issue an option or would it make things worse?

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2 minutes ago, halfhalfhalf said:

expo center will not happen. If you people complained about horse park with parking at least you got to come and go. Expo center and Freedom hall you're stuck. If you leave you're paying for parking each time. This is to include busses. This is non-negotiable or when I called to ask about it. 

Parking is negotiated in the contract. Busses, team vans and coaches can be taken care of. 

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10 hours ago, jackburg17 said:

So Apparently I’m signed under my kids name, however he’s not as smart as me so don’t be mistaken :). I’m the level 10 crazy mom who started the petition and has been pretty vocal on social media in this matter so I felt I had to respond. I have also emailed and discussed matters with Mr Joe Angolia with KHSAA as well. Despite popular belief I generally do try to do my research and think thru other perspectives before I run my mouth (unless it’s in the heat of my kid wrestling). With that being said, I have looked at the expense reports from May 2022 and I’m interested in seeing what these numbers will be come May 2023 now that even more Covid restrictions are THANKFULLY not in our way. Below you will find the amount on the right is the profit obtained from wrestling; The amount on the left is the expenses. It seems KHSAA paid GRC just a pinch over $2500 for their facilities. In summary… it appears that KHSAA profited just shy of $35,000 from wrestling. Is that basketball and football numbers? No… of course not. We are not ignorant in that (even if we do all agree that wrestling is better than basketball). I also understand that they have to profit something. I don’t expect KHSAA to take a loss. And to answer someone’s statement above, I would absolutely spend more money on tickets in exchange for actual seats because 1 weekend is essentially cheaper than 2. On families personally and programs primarily. We must be realistic in what we ask for. And Rupp and Yum, is honestly not realistic. But I do think there could be a happy median away from GRC and Corbin doesn’t seem like too bad of a choice in that. Being it is right off the interstate, there are hotels within Corbin and neighboring London, along with ample food choices. Looking at the expense report for the price of awards, I find that to be a little disheartening myself. In past, our program didn’t spend much less then that in medals and awards for our own tournaments, and here this is the “Big Show”?? 

KHSAA has a board of control meeting on Wednesday night… and I would love to be there! But I’m assuming they don’t allow “outsiders” nor have an open forum. If I find out otherwise, I WILL be there. Until then… please keep sharing the petition until they feel they MUST make changes. Ask my husband, I’m obnoxiously tenacious and I’m not stopping. 

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Just a couple of thoughts from reading this report. $62,314 receipts, is that from semi-state and the final round combined? Not sure what is classified as Misc & Sponsor expense?(sponsors typically pay) Lastly, with as many medals and trophies that are awarded(weight class, small school, big school), how on earth does volleyball spend twice as much as wrestling? 

 

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35 minutes ago, matreturn said:

Been around the sport in KY a while…long enough to remember the Horse Park venue. When my kid qualified for state and I walked into that building I was legit overwhelmed. It was like nothing I had ever seen before and the experience of the whole thing from the tournament of champions to the simultaneous matches, the fan all cheering on their wrestlers, the face off/podium at the end…it was amazing. It was what the cream of the crop should have when then achieve that level of competition. Anything else is quite frankly a disservice to the participants, the high school programs and KHSAA, because in the end  anything less makes KHSAA look bad whether they want to believe that or not.

Every year we have this discussion and there seems to be an impenetrable gap between KY Wrestling and KHSAA and what ever conversations have taken place between the two have yielded little progress on a solution.  
Just a question: is media attention to this issue an option or would it make things worse?

If you thought the Horse Park was awesome, I wish you could have seen then tournament in Frankfort.

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Reading through this I feel truly blessed that my era wrestled the 16 man, 2 day bracket at Frankfort Civic Center. It was the climax of state championship tourneys for our state.  That building was electric for semis and finals.

That should be the goal for event planning the tournament.  How can we recreate that enviro and location?

 

 

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1 hour ago, BigBossMan said:

Just a couple of thoughts from reading this report. $62,314 receipts, is that from semi-state and the final round combined? Not sure what is classified as Misc & Sponsor expense?(sponsors typically pay) Lastly, with as many medals and trophies that are awarded(weight class, small school, big school), how on earth does volleyball spend twice as much as wrestling? 

 

KHSAA buys the 112 medals (1st thru 8th in each wt. class), team trophies (1 thru 4 I believe), most outstanding wrestler and most pins award.  

KWCA (Ky Wrestling Coaches Association) buys the small school team trophies (1st and 2nd), coach of the year and Official of the year, and Coaches Hall of Fame

KWOA (Ky Wrestling Officials Association) gives coach of the year and Officials Hall of Fame.

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Missouri has had a set date with the University forever. Even with Mizzou moving to the SEC they were able to work out a schedule that did not conflict with their college events. They simply schedule away events the week of the tourney. They have nothing in the Arena after tonight I believe. Set up starts tonight after the game and wrestling begins tomorrow and goes all the way to Feb. 25th. They run four classes of boys and 2 classes for ladies. If it is feasible for them to be able to do this, I would think a college in Kentucky could do the same with less sports than a major D1 school. To look at their schedule just go to mshsaa.org and go to wrestling. There has to be a better solution than a high school for Kentucky.

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If semi-state is permanent, then EKU could hold it with six mats (I've long heard the problem here was fitting 8).  Plenty of logistics and centrally located.

Personally, I think the KHSAA is going to sanction girls wrestling, get some data on its state championships, then make a decision, possibly holding both at the same time, or back to back.

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I can’t understand how basketball has them all tied up. It’s 2 days. Just play an away game that weekend or play Sunday. 

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Y’all are looking at this geographically wrong.  It’s what best suits the KHSAA.  See below:
 

Football State Championship - Kroger Field (5 miles to KHSAA HQ)

Baseball State Championship - Legends Field (4 miles to KHSAA HQ)

Basketball State Championship - Rupp Arena (5 miles to KHSAA HQ)

Cross Country State Championship - Bourbon County HS (18 miles to KHSAA HQ)

Volleyball State Championship - George Rogers Clark (16 miles to KHSAA HQ)

 

Previous wrestling venues:

Frankfort Civic Center - 31 miles  to KHSAA HQ

Alltech Arena (Horsepark) - 13 miles to KHSAA HQ

 

I think Corbin would be an awesome venue.  It’s 84 miles from KHSAA HQ.  NEVER GONNA HAPPEN

 

Right wrong or indifferent it’s gotta be a venue within ~30 miles of KHSAA HQ to qualify.  

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1 hour ago, DrBaker said:

I can’t understand how basketball has them all tied up. It’s 2 days. Just play an away game that weekend or play Sunday. 

The schools have to be willing to work their basketball schedule around to accommodate wrestling. I have no idea if they are willing to do so or not. They also hold concerts and other events that could possibly be more lucrative than hosting a wrestling tournament, so it's not just basketball. It doesn't help that schools like UK, or any one else with a big arena don't have wrestling programs. So it's not just as simple as asking them to host....they also have to either want to host, or be willing to work schedules around to host. Doesn't mean someone shouldn't ask, but without even thinking about the cost (which is likely prohibitive based on the revenue generated), all these locations have to WANT to host the tournament enough to be willing to work their events around it.

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2 hours ago, rjs4470 said:

The schools have to be willing to work their basketball schedule around to accommodate wrestling. I have no idea if they are willing to do so or not. They also hold concerts and other events that could possibly be more lucrative than hosting a wrestling tournament, so it's not just basketball. It doesn't help that schools like UK, or any one else with a big arena don't have wrestling programs. So it's not just as simple as asking them to host....they also have to either want to host, or be willing to work schedules around to host. Doesn't mean someone shouldn't ask, but without even thinking about the cost (which is likely prohibitive based on the revenue generated), all these locations have to WANT to host the tournament enough to be willing to work their events 

The KHSAA needs to ask the questions to the schools and arenas. There are venues that are willing to work with the KHSAA on price( the Expo center was offered for free). 
Is the KHSAA a money making business or are they a governing body for student athletes that offers those athletes the chance at an experience of a lifetime. That of a high school state championship. 

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11 hours ago, BigBossMan said:

Just a couple of thoughts from reading this report. $62,314 receipts, is that from semi-state and the final round combined? Not sure what is classified as Misc & Sponsor expense?(sponsors typically pay) Lastly, with as many medals and trophies that are awarded(weight class, small school, big school), how on earth does volleyball spend twice as much as wrestling? 

 

It’s a cumulative amount of all KHSAA hosted events in the season so I believe that would be from Regions and on. I tried to obtain the report from the Horse Park era but I can’t find it online anywhere. I’m guessing it would have to be requested from the KHSAA office. I too pondered on the “Sponsor & Misc” section. I can’t imagine wrestling would provide a sponsor to anything so I would guess it would be “misc” items. As for medals, it’s disappointing really… because that tells me the quality of awards these athletes are getting. 

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4 hours ago, tcats said:
7 hours ago, rjs4470 said:

The schools have to be willing to work their basketball schedule around to accommodate wrestling. I have no idea if they are willing to do so or not. They also hold concerts and other events that could possibly be more lucrative than hosting a wrestling tournament, so it's not just basketball. It doesn't help that schools like UK, or any one else with a big arena don't have wrestling programs. So it's not just as simple as asking them to host....they also have to either want to host, or be willing to work schedules around to host. Doesn't mean someone shouldn't ask, but without even thinking about the cost (which is likely prohibitive based on the revenue generated), all these locations have to WANT to host the tournament enough to be willing to work their events 

The KHSAA needs to ask the questions to the schools and arenas. There are venues that are willing to work with the KHSAA on price( the Expo center was offered for free). 
Is the KHSAA a money making business or are they a governing body for student athletes that offers those athletes the chance at an experience of a lifetime. That of a high school state championship. 

Obviously, the KHSAA is a governing body. But they also have to be prudent, and run like a business. They can’t ignore budgets, and have to make smart business decisions. They also have to answer to the BOE, and ultimately the state government. Thare not an independent organization with complete autonomy and free will.

I would agree they need to at least ask the arena’s if they are interested in hosting. But being interested is only the first part. 

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6 hours ago, rjs4470 said:

Obviously, the KHSAA is a governing body. But they also have to be prudent, and run like a business. They can’t ignore budgets, and have to make smart business decisions. They also have to answer to the BOE, and ultimately the state government. Thare not an independent organization with complete autonomy and free will.

I would agree they need to at least ask the arena’s if they are interested in hosting. But being interested is only the first part. 

Is it possible to get the BOE and/or the State government involved in the conversation at least? We need an alliance..KHSAA may not be autonomous but it feels like the sport of wrestling is consistently getting the short end of the stick by them. 

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On 2/21/2023 at 10:06 AM, grappler-of-old said:

Track wrestling keeps a time of when the last match ended.  It will not allow the next match to start until the 45 minutes has elapsed.  When the whistle blew on his last match the time begins, it may not have seemed like 45 minutes but I would almost guarantee it was. The 45 minutes is from end of last match to beginning of next match. 

It was not 45 mins because it was middle school. That is the point it is said middle school can do this why cant high school. Because there is a clock on high school not on middle. It is USA Wrestling only a 15 minute break. Thats what I was talking about guess I didnt explain it good enough sorry.

 

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3 minutes ago, panthers said:

It was not 45 mins because it was middle school. That is the point it is said middle school can do this why cant high school. Because there is a clock on high school not on middle. It is USA Wrestling only a 15 minute break. Thats what I was talking about guess I didnt explain it good enough sorry.

 

High school follows National Federation Rules. The rules for high school is a 45 minute wait between matches with a maximum of 5 matches during the season and 6 matches in the post season (forfeits do not count as a match)

Middle School is not under KHSAA rules.  They follow USA wrestling rules. 

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go look at the blog post from the BoC meeting today. Are they going to have girls and guys at the same venue? Yes. 
 

y’all quit complaining a little bit and realize we have change coming.

 

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