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DrBaker

Not looking forward to state.

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20 minutes ago, grappler-of-old said:

So it seems that the only problem is venue.  The format at the Horse Park worked.

Now for the venue.  Will there be complaints when it coast $75-$80 for an all tournament pass?  Will there be parking costs? Food costs at the venue.  All major venues have a premium cost on food, and parking. 

There will always be some kind of complaint, the main concern is what is best for the wrestler. IMO. 

The main concern should always be the wrestler and how can the state tournament be a memorable experience and a desirable place to get to!

A true wrestler will wrestle anybody, anywhere, anytime. But the pinnacle of tournaments should be the pinnacle experience as well. 

Cost is always a factor. To the point the question was asked directly, "How much money does the KHSAA have to profit from the wrestling state tournament to be satisfied?" No answer was given. It would be nice to see a budget report. 

 

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3 hours ago, JKennedy said:

KFC Yum Center

Rupp Arena

E.A. Diddle Arena

All in the center of the state

Yum Center  $35K a day to rent

Rupp Arena $30K a day to rent

Diddle $20K a day to rent

 

All three have basketball conflicts as well so It would be a juggling act. but trust me, cant happen at these three, cost way to much. 

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3 hours ago, Ucbcoach said:

Just a few places across the state that could hold a 32 man bracket. I understand only 1 of those most would consider "centrally located" but wouldn't we sacrifice location for quality? Some would also depend on basketball not being in town that weekend. 

Freedom Hall--Louisville

SportsCenter-Owensboro

Corbin Arena-Corbin

Diddle Arena-Bowling Green

Appalachian Wireless Arena-Pikeville

McBrayer Arena-Richmond

CFSB Center-Murray

 

Freedom hall is out its already contracted out for the days of state tournament.

Diddle is out as well due to WKU Basketball still playing. 

EKU and Memorial are about to be remodeled and are out for the the the next few years, but even though you would have basketball issues there.  

 

The rest I cant answer for but someone call the AD's office and ask what it cost to rent the place.  Id say its minimum $10k to 15K a day. 

 

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Seems to me that a college could donate their arena and keep concessions or? 
Moorehead, Lindsay Wilson, Wesleyan, Bellarmine, Midway, Northern, Murray? Couldn’t those others free up one weekend? 
Didn’t Pikeville say they’d donate? It’s a long drive for West Ky, but it’s very nice. 

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8 minutes ago, DrBaker said:

Seems to me that a college could donate their arena and keep concessions or? 
Moorehead, Lindsay Wilson, Wesleyan, Bellarmine, Midway, Northern, Murray? Couldn’t those others free up one weekend? 
Didn’t Pikeville say they’d donate? It’s a long drive for West Ky, but it’s very nice. 

Concessions are contracted out and ran by an outside source for just about every arena. Thus the arenas aren't making a ton off of concessions...just whatever the negotiated split with the service provider is, so "keeping concessions" as a payment isn't really a moneymaking proposition. It's also why it's unfair to hold the KHSAA accountable for food prices....they (and the arenas) literally have no say in the matter.

The smaller schools you mention like Lindsey and Bellarmine don't have big enough arena's to host the state tourney. Morehead, Northern and Murray are locked into their own basketball seasons. I have no idea about Wesleyan or Midway, but I suspect size is a problem in those two places as well. 

I think to entertain holding state in a larger arena, if you can get costs into an acceptable range, the season would have to change to hold state at a later date. Which then starts conflicting with the KhSAA basketball tournament, which is their cash cow.

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14 minutes ago, DrBaker said:

Seems to me that a college could donate their arena and keep concessions or? 
Moorehead, Lindsay Wilson, Wesleyan, Bellarmine, Midway, Northern, Murray? Couldn’t those others free up one weekend? 
Didn’t Pikeville say they’d donate? It’s a long drive for West Ky, but it’s very nice. 

Pikeville is very nice. Can walk from the hotels to the arena. Lots of restaurants. Far from the western end of the state, but If you’re coming to GRC what is another 2 hours for a better experience. I was at Ryle, the tournament was a mess. Weights were out of order, kids were confused on when to warm up. Stands were packed,  you had to literally climb over gear and each other to get to your seats.  I have been to  many a tournament at Ryle and they always run a quick top notch tournament, so I assumed the KHSAA was involved in running.

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1 hour ago, Alf said:

Pikeville is very nice. Can walk from the hotels to the arena. Lots of restaurants. Far from the western end of the state, but If you’re coming to GRC what is another 2 hours for a better experience. I was at Ryle, the tournament was a mess. Weights were out of order, kids were confused on when to warm up. Stands were packed,  you had to literally climb over gear and each other to get to your seats.  I have been to  many a tournament at Ryle and they always run a quick top notch tournament, so I assumed the KHSAA was involved in running.

The KHSAA ran it remotely from Lexington. Which was a bad decision. 

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1 hour ago, plantmanky1 said:

Yum Center  $35K a day to rent

Rupp Arena $30K a day to rent

Diddle $20K a day to rent

 

All three have basketball conflicts as well so It would be a juggling act. but trust me, cant happen at these three, cost way to much. 

Do you think the KHSAA pays 4 days x $30,000 for Rupp Arena? 

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38 minutes ago, BigBossMan said:

Do you think the KHSAA pays 4 days x $30,000 for Rupp Arena? 

I believe you can find the P&L’s for the sweet 16 somewhere out there. The last financial statement I could find (2018)’showed total expenses of $465k for the boys Sweet 16. So it looks like they might have. Not to mention they do over $1M in ticket sales, and who know how much in sponsorship so they can certainly afford to pay that much for that event.

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I’m not sure what Corbin Arena charges, but middle school and youth were held over a weekend. There were over 1,300 youth wrestlers competing and they were done by 7pm the same day (Strayer, Carr and crew did a phenomenal job). I realize there are different rule sets for high school and middle school regarding competition. My point is, Corbin Arena was big enough to accommodate 1,300 wrestlers + parents and 10 mats. If KYUSA has it in their budget to run a tournament like that, while sparing no expense for medals, I’m pretty sure KHSAA has the budget for it as well. Makes you wonder how much they’ve pocketed since COVID. Guaranteed, the profit margins have been gigantic over the last couple of years. If they plan to run it remotely (can’t imagine how efficient that is), then venue location is immaterial.

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14 minutes ago, GentleBeard said:

I’m not sure what Corbin Arena charges, but middle school and youth were held over a weekend. There were over 1,300 youth wrestlers competing and they were done by 7pm the same day (Strayer, Carr and crew did a phenomenal job). I realize there are different rule sets for high school and middle school regarding competition. My point is, Corbin Arena was big enough to accommodate 1,300 wrestlers + parents and 10 mats. If KYUSA has it in their budget to run a tournament like that, while sparing no expense for medals, I’m pretty sure KHSAA has the budget for it as well. Makes you wonder how much they’ve pocketed since COVID. Guaranteed, the profit margins have been gigantic over the last couple of years. If they plan to run it remotely (can’t imagine how efficient that is), then venue location is immaterial.

I would say most of that rental fee comes from the $30 they charge per wrestler. That would be almost $50k in entry fees between MS and Youth.

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1 hour ago, BigBossMan said:

Do you think the KHSAA pays 4 days x $30,000 for Rupp Arena? 

I know exactly what they pay, but they also have a sponsor that offsets those cost of the arena. 

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4 hours ago, DrBaker said:

Seems to me that a college could donate their arena and keep concessions or? 
Moorehead, Lindsay Wilson, Wesleyan, Bellarmine, Midway, Northern, Murray? Couldn’t those others free up one weekend? 
Didn’t Pikeville say they’d donate? It’s a long drive for West Ky, but it’s very nice. 

For paid attendance events most do not / can not due to risk management policies.  Now can they discount yes they can charge whatever they want, but most have a minimum. 

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3 hours ago, gator1 said:

$80 for a 2-day pass is a lot cheaper than travel, hotels, gate, and concession eating for 2 weekends in a row with semi-state.

If you were to host at YUM or Rupp 80 to 100 a day would be probably what the pass would have to be.    Remember 15K plus wont be there to pack the place that can help keep the cost down.    Reminder the horse park at max capacity was under 6000 people. 

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34 minutes ago, GentleBeard said:

I’m not sure what Corbin Arena charges, but middle school and youth were held over a weekend. There were over 1,300 youth wrestlers competing and they were done by 7pm the same day (Strayer, Carr and crew did a phenomenal job). I realize there are different rule sets for high school and middle school regarding competition. My point is, Corbin Arena was big enough to accommodate 1,300 wrestlers + parents and 10 mats. If KYUSA has it in their budget to run a tournament like that, while sparing no expense for medals, I’m pretty sure KHSAA has the budget for it as well. Makes you wonder how much they’ve pocketed since COVID. Guaranteed, the profit margins have been gigantic over the last couple of years. If they plan to run it remotely (can’t imagine how efficient that is), then venue location is immaterial.

Just one thing to keep in mine is that they did youth in 3 sessions I believe.  Everyone wasn't there all at the same time.    Comparing 448 HS Wrestlers to 1300 youth isnt the same comparison.    Now operations wise the way things were done maybe there is some comparison.  

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18 minutes ago, rjs4470 said:

I would say most of that rental fee comes from the $30 they charge per wrestler. That would be almost $50k in entry fees between MS and Youth.

 

I would bet for the weekend rental was $20K ish, maybe a tad less with it being back to back days. 

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1 hour ago, rjs4470 said:

I believe you can find the P&L’s for the sweet 16 somewhere out there. The last financial statement I could find (2018)’showed total expenses of $465k for the boys Sweet 16. So it looks like they might have. Not to mention they do over $1M in ticket sales, and who know how much in sponsorship so they can certainly afford to pay that much for that event.

Sometimes I know what I am talking about, sometimes. 

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I have been to the state tournament every year since 1982.  Last year was the worst venue of all those years . This year will be the same as last year. I’m seriously contemplating not going this year because the venue is that awful for a spectator.

Question is… what does it take to get back to an arena type setting?    It can’t be all about cost because the Horse Park wasn’t free yet somehow they still made enough to keep it there for years.
 

ALSO, think about this, why should the KHSAA even need to profit from the state tournament.

It’s really a shame for the kids as much as anything else. It’s the wrong way to grow the sport.

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1 hour ago, plantmanky1 said:

Just one thing to keep in mine is that they did youth in 3 sessions I believe.  Everyone wasn't there all at the same time.    Comparing 448 HS Wrestlers to 1300 youth isnt the same comparison.    Now operations wise the way things were done maybe there is some comparison.  

They did do it in 3 sessions. 448 is pretty close to 1/3 of 1300.

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2 hours ago, rjs4470 said:

I believe you can find the P&L’s for the sweet 16 somewhere out there. The last financial statement I could find (2018)’showed total expenses of $465k for the boys Sweet 16. So it looks like they might have. Not to mention they do over $1M in ticket sales, and who know how much in sponsorship so they can certainly afford to pay that much for that event.

KHSAA also owns the trademark for "Sweet 16". Which is licensed to the NCAA. That is more income they receive for basketball.  

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4 hours ago, GentleBeard said:

I’m not sure what Corbin Arena charges, but middle school and youth were held over a weekend. There were over 1,300 youth wrestlers competing and they were done by 7pm the same day (Strayer, Carr and crew did a phenomenal job). I realize there are different rule sets for high school and middle school regarding competition. My point is, Corbin Arena was big enough to accommodate 1,300 wrestlers + parents and 10 mats. If KYUSA has it in their budget to run a tournament like that, while sparing no expense for medals, I’m pretty sure KHSAA has the budget for it as well. Makes you wonder how much they’ve pocketed since COVID. Guaranteed, the profit margins have been gigantic over the last couple of years. If they plan to run it remotely (can’t imagine how efficient that is), then venue location is immaterial.

Having wrestled in Corbin Arena before, the Patriot Open (college) has been held there for the past few years and it’s been pretty smooth with 10 mats, plenty of warm up space, and enough seating to handle state. Although the drive is a bit extensive, the only thing that I’m not sure about is hotels. Seems like the best option to go towards, but anything is better than GRC or Ryle or Atherton or any high school at this point.
 

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So Apparently I’m signed under my kids name, however he’s not as smart as me so don’t be mistaken :). I’m the level 10 crazy mom who started the petition and has been pretty vocal on social media in this matter so I felt I had to respond. I have also emailed and discussed matters with Mr Joe Angolia with KHSAA as well. Despite popular belief I generally do try to do my research and think thru other perspectives before I run my mouth (unless it’s in the heat of my kid wrestling). With that being said, I have looked at the expense reports from May 2022 and I’m interested in seeing what these numbers will be come May 2023 now that even more Covid restrictions are THANKFULLY not in our way. Below you will find the amount on the right is the profit obtained from wrestling; The amount on the left is the expenses. It seems KHSAA paid GRC just a pinch over $2500 for their facilities. In summary… it appears that KHSAA profited just shy of $35,000 from wrestling. Is that basketball and football numbers? No… of course not. We are not ignorant in that (even if we do all agree that wrestling is better than basketball). I also understand that they have to profit something. I don’t expect KHSAA to take a loss. And to answer someone’s statement above, I would absolutely spend more money on tickets in exchange for actual seats because 1 weekend is essentially cheaper than 2. On families personally and programs primarily. We must be realistic in what we ask for. And Rupp and Yum, is honestly not realistic. But I do think there could be a happy median away from GRC and Corbin doesn’t seem like too bad of a choice in that. Being it is right off the interstate, there are hotels within Corbin and neighboring London, along with ample food choices. Looking at the expense report for the price of awards, I find that to be a little disheartening myself. In past, our program didn’t spend much less then that in medals and awards for our own tournaments, and here this is the “Big Show”?? 

KHSAA has a board of control meeting on Wednesday night… and I would love to be there! But I’m assuming they don’t allow “outsiders” nor have an open forum. If I find out otherwise, I WILL be there. Until then… please keep sharing the petition until they feel they MUST make changes. Ask my husband, I’m obnoxiously tenacious and I’m not stopping. 

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