Not looking forward to state.

[DrBaker 497]

If you think Ky State is great, do not watch Indiana or Iowa. I love this sport and love following it, but I’m not that excited for state. Being packed in a high school gym for 2 days with all the breaks for no reason and people standing in your way at the rail. I really can’t understand why it can’t be changed to somewhere more accommodating. I’m afraid it’s going to be much bigger this year. I was at Atherton and saw standing room only at Ryle. It’s gonna be a mess. Anyone else feel this way? 

[Jimbobert 15]

It's embarrassing. You wouldn't have to go far to see how a good state tournament is done. Tennessee, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, and Missouri put us to shame. I don't know but I think it is part of the reason KY wrestling is so far behind everyone else. 

[plantmanky1 58]

The key issue is where, where is big enough.

[BE BRAVE 38]

2 hours ago, El cucuy said:

It's embarrassing. You wouldn't have to go far to see how a good state tournament is done. Tennessee, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, and Missouri put us to shame. I don't know but I think it is part of the reason KY wrestling is so far behind everyone else. 

You don’t even have to go out of this State to see a better ran State tournament. KY middle School State in an arena, 32 man brackets, face-offs, single Matt finals, podium for placers, proper awards, bracket boards, and done in one day. The problem is the over management of The KHSAA. They need to set the guidelines and rules then get out of the way and the the coaches run the HS State Tournament.  

[Lowsingle 9]

This whole post season has not been enjoyable for fans, coaches or mostly importantly wrestlers. I was at Ryle this past weekend and I can honestly say that I have never been in a gym so long to only wrestle 16 man brackets. No hospitality room, one concession stand so the line was very long most of the day, no seating, restrooms were not big enough and floor space around the mats was not sufficient. Not to mention that the competition area was not legally set up according to rules that are in place for the safety of the athletes. The out of bounds lines were not far enough apart. There were a couple of places on the mats where you could stand with one foot in the wrestling area of two different mats. Most of these things are not the fault of Ryle coaches or admins, its just an issue with putting that many teams and fans in a high school gym. I am most certainly not looking forward to being packed into GRC this weekend. First of all the fact that we are making this a two day event is being ridiculous. 16 man brackets on 5 mats if done right should take about 6-8 hours max not two days. We are forcing parents of competitors to miss work on Friday if they want to watch their sons compete when the whole tournament can be wrestled on Saturday. Isn't that why we put in the 6th match rule for post season? So we all show up bright and early on Friday, while GRC is in school session, to watch 3 total rounds of wrestling. Those 3 rounds should be finished by about 5pm unless we take a bunch of useless breaks just to string out the days which only causes the fans and competitors to become more disgruntled. Now the teams that have to travel from the far ends of the state will go back to their hotel rooms, that they had to book for 2 nights instead of 1 night costing the team money that they probably didn't have, and find out how to kill time the rest of the evening. Then we will get up early and finish the tournament the next day but not without buying another $16 ticket and if you are lucky you can get one of those $75 KHSAA hoodies for your kid before you go home.

Total cost for a family of 4 traveling to watch their kids compete:

Hotel Room 2 nights $275

Tickets for 4 both days: $128

Fuel, Food, Merchandise: $300

Total cost about $700ish for a tournament that could be done start to finish in 1 day. Not mention the fact that those same fans spent half that amount to go to the first round of state last weekend. We are doing our people and injustice. We are killing our sport by letting this happen. We will lose wrestlers next season because of our postseason. The wrestlers and their parents will leave this season with a sour taste in their mouths and they will remember what a circus it was this season,. 

[DrBaker 497]

46 minutes ago, plantmanky1 said:

The key issue is where, where is big enough.

There are lots of college arenas. I bet someone could throw together a list of 50 places. 

[Lowsingle 9]

1 minute ago, DrBaker said:

There are lots of college arenas. I bet someone could throw together a list of 50 places. 

I agree 100%. There are plenty of places to host that are centrally located. At this point I would drive from Pike County to Paducah for a nice venue for the kids. Martin County drove to Union for state duals a few years ago, If you build it they will come. WV hosts a great state tournament in the Big Sandy Superstore Arena in Huntington which is probably less that 10 miles from the KY border. I'm sure the teams that border Pennsylvania and Maryland don't mind since the venue is nice. 

[riccib14 1]

8 minutes ago, Lowsingle said:

This whole post season has not been enjoyable for fans, coaches or mostly importantly wrestlers. I was at Ryle this past weekend and I can honestly say that I have never been in a gym so long to only wrestle 16 man brackets. No hospitality room, one concession stand so the line was very long most of the day, no seating, restrooms were not big enough and floor space around the mats was not sufficient. Not to mention that the competition area was not legally set up according to rules that are in place for the safety of the athletes. The out of bounds lines were not far enough apart. There were a couple of places on the mats where you could stand with one foot in the wrestling area of two different mats. Most of these things are not the fault of Ryle coaches or admins, its just an issue with putting that many teams and fans in a high school gym. I am most certainly not looking forward to being packed into GRC this weekend. First of all the fact that we are making this a two day event is being ridiculous. 16 man brackets on 5 mats if done right should take about 6-8 hours max not two days. We are forcing parents of competitors to miss work on Friday if they want to watch their sons compete when the whole tournament can be wrestled on Saturday. Isn't that why we put in the 6th match rule for post season? So we all show up bright and early on Friday, while GRC is in school session, to watch 3 total rounds of wrestling. Those 3 rounds should be finished by about 5pm unless we take a bunch of useless breaks just to string out the days which only causes the fans and competitors to become more disgruntled. Now the teams that have to travel from the far ends of the state will go back to their hotel rooms, that they had to book for 2 nights instead of 1 night costing the team money that they probably didn't have, and find out how to kill time the rest of the evening. Then we will get up early and finish the tournament the next day but not without buying another $16 ticket and if you are lucky you can get one of those $75 KHSAA hoodies for your kid before you go home.

Total cost for a family of 4 traveling to watch their kids compete:

Hotel Room 2 nights $275

Tickets for 4 both days: $128

Fuel, Food, Merchandise: $300

Total cost about $700ish for a tournament that could be done start to finish in 1 day. Not mention the fact that those same fans spent half that amount to go to the first round of state last weekend. We are doing our people and injustice. We are killing our sport by letting this happen. We will lose wrestlers next season because of our postseason. The wrestlers and their parents will leave this season with a sour taste in their mouths and they will remember what a circus it was this season,. 

Absolutely, all of this!!

[wrestling fan 3]

KHSAA is a joke.. that sums it up.

[DrBaker 497]

13 minutes ago, Lowsingle said:

This whole post season has not been enjoyable for fans, coaches or mostly importantly wrestlers. I was at Ryle this past weekend and I can honestly say that I have never been in a gym so long to only wrestle 16 man brackets. No hospitality room, one concession stand so the line was very long most of the day, no seating, restrooms were not big enough and floor space around the mats was not sufficient. Not to mention that the competition area was not legally set up according to rules that are in place for the safety of the athletes. The out of bounds lines were not far enough apart. There were a couple of places on the mats where you could stand with one foot in the wrestling area of two different mats. Most of these things are not the fault of Ryle coaches or admins, its just an issue with putting that many teams and fans in a high school gym. I am most certainly not looking forward to being packed into GRC this weekend. First of all the fact that we are making this a two day event is being ridiculous. 16 man brackets on 5 mats if done right should take about 6-8 hours max not two days. We are forcing parents of competitors to miss work on Friday if they want to watch their sons compete when the whole tournament can be wrestled on Saturday. Isn't that why we put in the 6th match rule for post season? So we all show up bright and early on Friday, while GRC is in school session, to watch 3 total rounds of wrestling. Those 3 rounds should be finished by about 5pm unless we take a bunch of useless breaks just to string out the days which only causes the fans and competitors to become more disgruntled. Now the teams that have to travel from the far ends of the state will go back to their hotel rooms, that they had to book for 2 nights instead of 1 night costing the team money that they probably didn't have, and find out how to kill time the rest of the evening. Then we will get up early and finish the tournament the next day but not without buying another $16 ticket and if you are lucky you can get one of those $75 KHSAA hoodies for your kid before you go home.

Total cost for a family of 4 traveling to watch their kids compete:

Hotel Room 2 nights $275

Tickets for 4 both days: $128

Fuel, Food, Merchandise: $300

Total cost about $700ish for a tournament that could be done start to finish in 1 day. Not mention the fact that those same fans spent half that amount to go to the first round of state last weekend. We are doing our people and injustice. We are killing our sport by letting this happen. We will lose wrestlers next season because of our postseason. The wrestlers and their parents will leave this season with a sour taste in their mouths and they will remember what a circus it was this season,. 

It was pretty well the same at Atherton. Small concessions, packed bathrooms, etc. It had the feeling of a regular high school tourney. 

[grappler-of-old 44]

13 minutes ago, Lowsingle said:

This whole post season has not been enjoyable for fans, coaches or mostly importantly wrestlers. I was at Ryle this past weekend and I can honestly say that I have never been in a gym so long to only wrestle 16 man brackets. No hospitality room, one concession stand so the line was very long most of the day, no seating, restrooms were not big enough and floor space around the mats was not sufficient. Not to mention that the competition area was not legally set up according to rules that are in place for the safety of the athletes. The out of bounds lines were not far enough apart. There were a couple of places on the mats where you could stand with one foot in the wrestling area of two different mats. Most of these things are not the fault of Ryle coaches or admins, its just an issue with putting that many teams and fans in a high school gym. I am most certainly not looking forward to being packed into GRC this weekend. First of all the fact that we are making this a two day event is being ridiculous. 16 man brackets on 5 mats if done right should take about 6-8 hours max not two days. We are forcing parents of competitors to miss work on Friday if they want to watch their sons compete when the whole tournament can be wrestled on Saturday. Isn't that why we put in the 6th match rule for post season? So we all show up bright and early on Friday, while GRC is in school session, to watch 3 total rounds of wrestling. Those 3 rounds should be finished by about 5pm unless we take a bunch of useless breaks just to string out the days which only causes the fans and competitors to become more disgruntled. Now the teams that have to travel from the far ends of the state will go back to their hotel rooms, that they had to book for 2 nights instead of 1 night costing the team money that they probably didn't have, and find out how to kill time the rest of the evening. Then we will get up early and finish the tournament the next day but not without buying another $16 ticket and if you are lucky you can get one of those $75 KHSAA hoodies for your kid before you go home.

Total cost for a family of 4 traveling to watch their kids compete:

Hotel Room 2 nights $275

Tickets for 4 both days: $128

Fuel, Food, Merchandise: $300

Total cost about $700ish for a tournament that could be done start to finish in 1 day. Not mention the fact that those same fans spent half that amount to go to the first round of state last weekend. We are doing our people and injustice. We are killing our sport by letting this happen. We will lose wrestlers next season because of our postseason. The wrestlers and their parents will leave this season with a sour taste in their mouths and they will remember what a circus it was this season,. 

Not sure about the problem with a 2 day state.  If you want the parade of champions a face off and an awards ceremony, you would need 2 days. 

Even back in ancient times when I wrestled and the state tourney was at Atherton with a 16 man bracket it was 2 days.  No one complained.  

I don't like the 16 man state tourney at a high school.  All this changed with COVID and the expiration of the contract with the Horse Park. 

Semi-State is the real joke.  We either need to return to District, Region, State (16 man bracket) or Region and state (32 man bracket).  

I'm not sure how long you have been around, but the state tourney use to be at the Horse Park with a 32 man bracket.  The real complaint then was the Horse Park itself.  Finding a venue seems to be the biggest problem.  

[grappler-of-old 44]

22 minutes ago, Lowsingle said:

I agree 100%. There are plenty of places to host that are centrally located. At this point I would drive from Pike County to Paducah for a nice venue for the kids. Martin County drove to Union for state duals a few years ago, If you build it they will come. WV hosts a great state tournament in the Big Sandy Superstore Arena in Huntington which is probably less that 10 miles from the KY border. I'm sure the teams that border Pennsylvania and Maryland don't mind since the venue is nice. 

You have a lot of faith in school support for wrestling.  I know of several schools that could not go to the state duals when it was at Union because of the travel and cost. 

[Ucbcoach 8]

Just a few places across the state that could hold a 32 man bracket. I understand only 1 of those most would consider "centrally located" but wouldn't we sacrifice location for quality? Some would also depend on basketball not being in town that weekend. 

Freedom Hall--Louisville

SportsCenter-Owensboro

Corbin Arena-Corbin

Diddle Arena-Bowling Green

Appalachian Wireless Arena-Pikeville

McBrayer Arena-Richmond

CFSB Center-Murray

 

[Lowsingle 9]

2 minutes ago, grappler-of-old said:

Not sure about the problem with a 2 day state.  If you want the parade of champions a face off and an awards ceremony, you would need 2 days. 

Even back in ancient times when I wrestled and the state tourney was at Atherton with a 16 man bracket it was 2 days.  No one complained.  

I don't like the 16 man state tourney at a high school.  All this changed with COVID and the expiration of the contract with the Horse Park. 

Semi-State is the real joke.  We either need to return to District, Region, State (16 man bracket) or Region and state (32 man bracket).  

I'm not sure how long you have been around, but the state tourney use to be at the Horse Park with a 32 man bracket.  The real complaint then was the Horse Park itself.  Finding a venue seems to be the biggest problem.  

I would have no issue with spending two days in Winchester if we hadn't just spent last weekend in NKY for a "State Tournament Round 1". 

I've been around KY wrestling as a competitor and coach since 1998 so I remember the past two venues. Never went to a state tournament when it was at Atherton. I remember the 3 day tournament in Frankfort when they used to wrestle a round and half of championship matches on thursday. 

My problem with the two day state tournament is the financial burden we are putting on parents and programs forcing them to travel and get hotel rooms two consecutive weekends at different high school gyms and paying ticket prices you would expect at a large venue to sit in a high school gym. 

A two day state tournament would be great in the right venue. 

[BroOfCoach 23]

25 minutes ago, grappler-of-old said:

Not sure about the problem with a 2 day state.  If you want the parade of champions a face off and an awards ceremony, you would need 2 days. 

Even back in ancient times when I wrestled and the state tourney was at Atherton with a 16 man bracket it was 2 days.  No one complained.  

I don't like the 16 man state tourney at a high school.  All this changed with COVID and the expiration of the contract with the Horse Park. 

Semi-State is the real joke.  We either need to return to District, Region, State (16 man bracket) or Region and state (32 man bracket).  

I'm not sure how long you have been around, but the state tourney use to be at the Horse Park with a 32 man bracket.  The real complaint then was the Horse Park itself.  Finding a venue seems to be the biggest problem.  

I agree. It needs to go back to District, Region, State (16 man bracket) or Region and State (32 man bracket).  

The issues we have with the post season setup are simply due to the KHSAA's lack of care and/or effort.

[BE BRAVE 38]

22 minutes ago, grappler-of-old said:

Not sure about the problem with a 2 day state.  If you want the parade of champions a face off and an awards ceremony, you would need 2 days. 

Even back in ancient times when I wrestled and the state tourney was at Atherton with a 16 man bracket it was 2 days.  No one complained.  

I don't like the 16 man state tourney at a high school.  All this changed with COVID and the expiration of the contract with the Horse Park. 

Semi-State is the real joke.  We either need to return to District, Region, State (16 man bracket) or Region and state (32 man bracket).  

I'm not sure how long you have been around, but the state tourney use to be at the Horse Park with a 32 man bracket.  The real complaint then was the Horse Park itself.  Finding a venue seems to be the biggest problem.  

You can easily run a 32 man bracket with all the bells and whistles and be done in one day. Middle School has proven it for the last 3-4 years. Even in 2020-2021 at the height of Covid protocol. Look it up. 
 

here’s what you need. 10 mats, start at 8:00AM sharp. Run it on track open mat available. NO BREAKS IN COMPETITION UNTIL AND ONLY FOR BREAK DOWN OF MATS AND FACE OFF. 

This has been done for several years now at the middle school level. That’s a fact can not be disputed. 
 

I forgot to add in my first post 32 man brackets that are SEEDED  

 

[JKennedy 0]

1 hour ago, plantmanky1 said:

The key issue is where, where is big enough.

KFC Yum Center

Rupp Arena

E.A. Diddle Arena

All in the center of the state

[GentleBeard 145]

Corbin Arena is the perfect venue for Kentucky, in my opinion. Middle School doesn’t have a 5 match rule like High School does, and they only require 15 minute breaks between matches, so they are able to be done in one day - unlike high school. They had 20 man brackets, started at 9am and the finals were over by 6pm. The difference (besides match and time rules) is KYUSA/KFWC are willing to turn a penny loose for the kids, regardless of the convenience of those running the tournament. Priorities matter. We complain every year how bad the KHSAA tournament is, but unless they have an open mind to listen without getting offended, nothing will change. On a side note, my experience with refs in the western part of the state this year has been a LOT better than in years past. I’m interested to see if they get their shot to ref at state. But, that’s for another thread… 

[thegreatgatsby 23]

10 minutes ago, GentleBeard said:

Can’t wait for that

[rjs4470 103]

One of the problems with all the college arenas is timing. The state tournament would have to shift dates back so as not to conflict with the college basketball season. I doubt any college arena is willing to bounce their mens and women's basketball schedules around to host a high school wrestling tournament. That being said, I don't think most would have an issue with pushing the tournament back a couple of weeks, which would also mean pushing the season start back a little (which I also don't see as an issue). 

Clearly something needs to be done. I wasn't at semi state, but I've talked to a few who were, and at least at Ryle, it seems like it was not a well run event. I was told the tournament was being run remotely from Lexington, which seems like a silly decision and probably contributed to the amount of time it took to run the tournament. I've defended the KHSAA in the past, because I know several BOC members and understand the work they do and some of the issues they face. However, what's happening here is not defendable.

[grappler-of-old 44]

1 hour ago, BE BRAVE said:

You can easily run a 32 man bracket with all the bells and whistles and be done in one day. Middle School has proven it for the last 3-4 years. Even in 2020-2021 at the height of Covid protocol. Look it up. 
 

here’s what you need. 10 mats, start at 8:00AM sharp. Run it on track open mat available. NO BREAKS IN COMPETITION UNTIL AND ONLY FOR BREAK DOWN OF MATS AND FACE OFF. 

This has been done for several years now at the middle school level. That’s a fact can not be disputed. 
 

I forgot to add in my first post 32 man brackets that are SEEDED  

 

I was beat to the punch on some of this.

32 man bracket-- If you lose in the 1st round and come back to place 3rd you will wrestle 8 matches. Only allowed 6 in post season in one day. 

Middle school only has 20 participants in a 32 man bracket. 

Middle school wrestles shorter periods. 

45 minute break between matches in high school.

Not sure how middle school seeds, if you only seed the champions I would be OK with it. I do not like seeding all the wrestlers.  I don't like kids from the same region wrestling each other in the 1st or 2nd round in a 32 man bracket. 

[BigBossMan 21]

The biggest complaint is venue. Every year, without fail, the problem is the venue. Problems have solutions. As a BOC comprised of educators and administrators, THEY should be really good at it. Granted THEY have been able to complete the season by hosting a state tournament, which is all that is required. But THEY have fallen woefully short of putting together a low level event, not even close to a top notch event. They have taken money(gate/concessions/vendor) and given very little or poor quality in return. Even when given help reserving suitable venues, by those who are willing to help, THEY refuse or seem unwilling or bothered. 

George Rogers Clark has a beautiful gym. Their coaches and staff should be applauded for their efforts. Which in my opinion every school would if put in the same situation. The people that care the most about wrestling are those that have wrestled, have been a coach, have been a ref, and are parents or grandparents.

Why not host the Sweet 16 (Boys or Girls) at George Rogers Clark? Those games are only 2 teams playing at a time. It seems a quite a bit more logical compared to 65 teams wrestling at the same time. Rhetorical question: Would there be any backlash if the Sweet 16 was moved from Rupp Arena to Lexington Sayre? 

My point is let's work together to solve the problem. Coaches, ADs, BOC and administrators get together and provide a suitable solution, a desirable location for the State Wrestling Tournament.  

[BigBossMan 21]

28 minutes ago, grappler-of-old said:

I was beat to the punch on some of this.

32 man bracket-- If you lose in the 1st round and come back to place 3rd you will wrestle 8 matches. Only allowed 6 in post season in one day. 

Middle school only has 20 participants in a 32 man bracket. 

Middle school wrestles shorter periods. 

45 minute break between matches in high school.

Not sure how middle school seeds, if you only seed the champions I would be OK with it. I do not like seeding all the wrestlers.  I don't like kids from the same region wrestling each other in the 1st or 2nd round in a 32 man bracket. 

GOO you are correct. No way to wrestle a 32 man bracket in 1 day. 

Middle school only seeds the region champions. 

The format high school used at the horse park is the best way, as far as rounds and timelines go. 2 days of wrestling, not 3. I do think the region champions(only) should be seeded in the high school state tournament. 

[bestmistake33 28]

34 minutes ago, BigBossMan said:

The biggest complaint is venue. Every year, without fail, the problem is the venue. Problems have solutions. As a BOC comprised of educators and administrators, THEY should be really good at it. Granted THEY have been able to complete the season by hosting a state tournament, which is all that is required. But THEY have fallen woefully short of putting together a low level event, not even close to a top notch event. They have taken money(gate/concessions/vendor) and given very little or poor quality in return. Even when given help reserving suitable venues, by those who are willing to help, THEY refuse or seem unwilling or bothered. 

George Rogers Clark has a beautiful gym. Their coaches and staff should be applauded for their efforts. Which in my opinion every school would if put in the same situation. The people that care the most about wrestling are those that have wrestled, have been a coach, have been a ref, and are parents or grandparents.

Why not host the Sweet 16 (Boys or Girls) at George Rogers Clark? Those games are only 2 teams playing at a time. It seems a quite a bit more logical compared to 65 teams wrestling at the same time. Rhetorical question: Would there be any backlash if the Sweet 16 was moved from Rupp Arena to Lexington Sayre? 

My point is let's work together to solve the problem. Coaches, ADs, BOC and administrators get together and provide a suitable solution, a desirable location for the State Wrestling Tournament.  

Feels like you nailed it.  They are focused on holding a "final" event and or state championship.  What they are doing checks the box.

While I don't think that overall revenue collected from the event is anywhere near Basketball or other sports, the margins on it have to be thru the roof.  I imagine that they are paying GRCHS little to no money and raking in a lot.

Vice Versa, I bet they are paying Rupp Arena a mint and actually pocketing very little.  That's where wrestling and other sports help out!

[grappler-of-old 44]

So it seems that the only problem is venue.  The format at the Horse Park worked.

Now for the venue.  Will there be complaints when it coast $75-$80 for an all tournament pass?  Will there be parking costs? Food costs at the venue.  All major venues have a premium cost on food, and parking. 

There will always be some kind of complaint, the main concern is what is best for the wrestler. IMO.