Coach Matt

Regional realignment

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Just curious, who has to look into Region realignments? Do us coaches need to vote on this? The last map was updated it looks like 5 years ago. I know Region 4 has 27 teams compared to Region 3 with 11 teams.  And I know Region 4 is adding a few more next year. 

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On 1/21/2023 at 10:00 PM, Coach Matt said:

Just curious, who has to look into Region realignments? Do us coaches need to vote on this? The last map was updated it looks like 5 years ago. I know Region 4 has 27 teams compared to Region 3 with 11 teams.  And I know Region 4 is adding a few more next year. 

Hi there…I chair a Regional Realignment Committee (RRC). We began looking into the changes this past fall and we will reconvene once the season is over. We are taking into account several variables, such as teams per region, in order to present a well balanced suggestion to the KFWC this coming spring.

The RRC is made up of 1 coach from each of the 5 regions in our Commonwealth.

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On 1/21/2023 at 10:00 PM, Coach Matt said:

Just curious, who has to look into Region realignments? Do us coaches need to vote on this? The last map was updated it looks like 5 years ago. I know Region 4 has 27 teams compared to Region 3 with 11 teams.  And I know Region 4 is adding a few more next year. 

Id say they are looking at the same alignment as the HS teams have.  That would make it easier on a lot of programs and coaches.  

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Just an idea to think about at the next coaches meeting, Ohio has 8 state qualifying tournaments for middle school. 4 on one weekend and 4 on a different weekend, taking top 4 each tournament for a full 32 man bracket. That helps with the situation of having 5 or 6 possible state placers coming from 1 region and leaving 1 or 2 of them not making the state tournament. No realignment needed, you would just need to decide who gets to host the 8 tournaments. 

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17 hours ago, Jegators22 said:

Just an idea to think about at the next coaches meeting, Ohio has 8 state qualifying tournaments for middle school. 4 on one weekend and 4 on a different weekend, taking top 4 each tournament for a full 32 man bracket. That helps with the situation of having 5 or 6 possible state placers coming from 1 region and leaving 1 or 2 of them not making the state tournament. No realignment needed, you would just need to decide who gets to host the 8 tournaments. 

A couple of snags here.

1.  Ohio does not allow middle school to wrestle High school, Ky does.  Adding another week to the post season will run into the high school post season, or state duals.  

2.  The middle school 32 person tourney would then be a 2 day event.  Friday and Saturday, adding either another overnight stay to some or causing an overnight stay for others.  

one more would be finding a venue big enough for the even, heck the high school can't even find one suitable for them to have a 32 person event. 

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As far as the snags go, you could always add the extra weekend before the ones you have now, so you do not run into the high school season. 

The Venue is another thing that wouldn't be that hard to work around.  I know it is a long way to travel, but I believe the arena in Pikeville is available and is big enough. That doesn't need to be the permanent venue, but it could be used until a better option is found. 

A 32 man bracket is already being used at the middle school tournament. It is just not full with only having 20 kids in it. I'm not sure what the exact rules are, but I don't think there are any restrictions as far as number of matches and time between matches since the middle school goes by USA wrestling. (I'm not 100% sure about that as I'm no longer involved with a middle school)

These are just ideas to think about and work toward trying to grow numbers in Kentucky. As another thread stated, it's easier to get more kids involved when they see their friends or classmates having success. So having more State Qualifiers now will, in the long run, be better for the sport by getting more kids involved. 

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With the addition of Girls next year and the added cost for that, I think that schools would really balk at having a 2 day tournament with an additional overnight stay.  That is the HUGE problem.

I am not sure why there are only 5 regions in middle school.  I would guess it was made due to participation or the tournament running long.  There use to be 8 regions not so many years ago.  

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The biggest issue with adding more regions and Wrestling them all on a Saturday is the amount of officials to cover this event. High school boys/girls will take a big chunk of the pool of officials that weekend. They will be covered first before middle school events will be covered. This season the regions were BARELY covered with officials. A few of them going 12 hour days with only enough officials to cover the mats laid down and no officials to break them. Until we get more officials in this state, middle school regions may need to move to that Sunday to ensure that there are enough qualified officials on those tournaments. Then host the youth the following Sunday and still keep the same 3 weeks of post season that we had this season.

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On 2/3/2023 at 1:20 PM, Jegators22 said:

As far as the snags go, you could always add the extra weekend before the ones you have now, so you do not run into the high school season. 

The Venue is another thing that wouldn't be that hard to work around.  I know it is a long way to travel, but I believe the arena in Pikeville is available and is big enough. That doesn't need to be the permanent venue, but it could be used until a better option is found. 

A 32 man bracket is already being used at the middle school tournament. It is just not full with only having 20 kids in it. I'm not sure what the exact rules are, but I don't think there are any restrictions as far as number of matches and time between matches since the middle school goes by USA wrestling. (I'm not 100% sure about that as I'm no longer involved with a middle school)

These are just ideas to think about and work toward trying to grow numbers in Kentucky. As another thread stated, it's easier to get more kids involved when they see their friends or classmates having success. So having more State Qualifiers now will, in the long run, be better for the sport by getting more kids involved. 

Corbin is big enough to hold a 32 man bracket in 1 day like this year. Finals were over before 6. This is the type of venue that needs to hold these events. Big enough for the crowd, can lay 10 mats down (maybe more of you move the head table) and not on a dirt floor (Horse park) 

Would be perfect for a 2 day boys and girls high school state championship 

 

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Corbin has the perfect arena for Kentucky wrestling. The infrastructure is a bit lacking, but somehow had nearly 1,400 wrestlers yesterday and was done by 7pm. Wish the KHSAA would gain some input on how the middle school runs post season. High school state duals = held in high school gyms. High school semi state/state = held in high school gyms. Middle School state duals = held at Knights Hall at Bellarmine. Middle school state = held in an arena with 10 mats. 

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First let me say I think the people who ran Middle School State did a great job. In saying that Corbin is a good Arena but it is far from perfect. If the internet issues could be fixed and food was better then maybe it would be. But with everything running on Track wrestling which is totally on-line and the place having no signal for coaches or others to view what is coming up or brackets ever is a huge problem.  There is only one way to the floor so when a kid finishes his match and in wrestle backs by the time he gets to his sit sometimes within minutes he was called back to the floor for his next match. The updates on the screen are great but with it only in 3 spots and not big enough to see unless you just have someone standing there all day to watch it was hard to keep up sometimes. Maybe if it was announced like the old high school anytime someone is on a mat assignment it would help. Again I think the people running it did a fantastic job using the means they had at there disposal but access to everyone to internet would fix these types of issues. 

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1 hour ago, panthers said:

First let me say I think the people who ran Middle School State did a great job. In saying that Corbin is a good Arena but it is far from perfect. If the internet issues could be fixed and food was better then maybe it would be. But with everything running on Track wrestling which is totally on-line and the place having no signal for coaches or others to view what is coming up or brackets ever is a huge problem.  There is only one way to the floor so when a kid finishes his match and in wrestle backs by the time he gets to his sit sometimes within minutes he was called back to the floor for his next match. The updates on the screen are great but with it only in 3 spots and not big enough to see unless you just have someone standing there all day to watch it was hard to keep up sometimes. Maybe if it was announced like the old high school anytime someone is on a mat assignment it would help. Again I think the people running it did a fantastic job using the means they had at there disposal but access to everyone to internet would fix these types of issues. 

The one entrance to the floor is great. Keeps people from trying to get down there that shouldn't be.

Seems like the internet was AT&T phones. Everyone I seen that was able to pull up Track had Verizon or another carrier.

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Oh I agree the one entrance was the way to go for the the tourney to be smooth it was not a slam in anyway. I had my doubts but it was great. Yes I have AT&T but my other coach and a dad with didnt and they couldnt get and keep signals either. Internet there is horrible for track or we need a huge screen or announcer. 

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For the officials, you could run the 8 state qualifiers over 2 weekends. 4 on one weekend and 4 on another. And you could do it like Ohio does their junior high and not be set on which tournament you go to based on your region. You can go to any qualifying tournament the first weekend and if you don't qualify,  you can go to one the second weekend. That leaves you with 4 tournaments to cover in 1 weekend, not 5 or 8

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Does any of the money from region tournaments go to kfwc?  If not it should.  That way there wouldn't be a need for so many kids at youth state as far as money goes.  I know in football khsaa gets alot of the gate money from playoff games.  

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The middle school state tournament started on time and was completed faster than most tournaments we went to with smaller brackets this year (I know 10 mats helps). I thought the youth state tournament went well, too, considering there was a record number of participants. I like the Corbin Arena. It's perfect for a state wrestling tournament. Sure, it's not in the middle of the state, but it's worth the drive to have a tournament run efficiently and at a location that's conducive to the sport of wrestling. The only issue that one could potentially have is with the head ref stating that coaches are the reason there's not that many of them (referees).  I didn't see many conflicts between the refs and coaches this weekend or much at all this year, if I'm honest.  I thought starting the day off with manufactured conflict/blame game between coaches and refs probably wasn't the smartest move.  

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1 hour ago, GentleBeard said:

 The only issue that one could potentially have is with the head ref stating that coaches are the reason there's not that many of them (referees). 

I know I may be opening a can of worms here but::::::.   I would like to hear from some older officials that have been around for a long long time.  

My question is this. are the coaches questioning/complaining/arguing more, less, or about the same as in the past.  I have been around for a long long time and I'm not sure I see a huge difference in the coaches now compared to yesteryear.  I actually believe that the coaches are arguing less.  You don't have the Joe Carr Sr. (Woo), Dave Madding (Scott) who would question or complain all the time.  I think that many officials have gotten rabbit ears.  Coaches in the corner will complain to each other about a call and the officials hear it and it gets to them.  

It's the one problem our whole society is facing, a little criticism or disagreement does not have to end the world, especially if it is not directly said to you. 

Then again I am probably wrong. My wife tells me I am all the time. :ph34r:

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16 minutes ago, grappler-of-old said:

I know I may be opening a can of worms here but::::::.   I would like to hear from some older officials that have been around for a long long time.  

My question is this. are the coaches questioning/complaining/arguing more, less, or about the same as in the past.  I have been around for a long long time and I'm not sure I see a huge difference in the coaches now compared to yesteryear.  I actually believe that the coaches are arguing less.  You don't have the Joe Carr Sr. (Woo), Dave Madding (Scott) who would question or complain all the time.  I think that many officials have gotten rabbit ears.  Coaches in the corner will complain to each other about a call and the officials hear it and it gets to them.  

It's the one problem our whole society is facing, a little criticism or disagreement does not have to end the world, especially if it is not directly said to you. 

Then again I am probably wrong. My wife tells me I am all the time. :ph34r:

I've found that across many sports (at least the ones I've been or my kids have been involved in, Baseball, Football, Basketball and wrestling) that the age of the kids is inversely related to the grief that officials get. The younger the participant, the worse the officials get treated. Which might explain why it's harder to get officials at non high school events.

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That makes sense.  The younger the participants normally the younger and less experienced the coach.  

One advise I would give young coaches is to talk to the officials after the event or at a break.  Ask how the call was made, don't argue about it (The call can't be changed now) just find out why the official made the call.  I have learned a great deal by doing this and I hope that the official I talked to know I am just trying to understand and learn myself.  We NEVER know all the answers. 

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8 minutes ago, rjs4470 said:

I've found that across many sports (at least the ones I've been or my kids have been involved in, Baseball, Football, Basketball and wrestling) that the age of the kids is inversely related to the grief that officials get. The younger the participant, the worse the officials get treated. Which might explain why it's harder to get officials at non high school events.

Maybe it’s just where we are located, but I didn’t see many confrontations that got out of hand to the point coaches were getting booted. In fact, I could name drop a few refs who have gone above and beyond to show respect to coaches, improve relationships, listen to concerns, but also remain mentally tough when coaches get amped up over perceived calls that don’t go their way.  The fact we can have a discussion about a call with an open mind and low probability of getting offended or giving misconducts has been a nice change. I know I appreciate the hell out of that. Unfortunately, I doubt those refs will get the spotlight at state. That’s how it usually works.

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2 hours ago, GentleBeard said:

Maybe it’s just where we are located, but I didn’t see many confrontations that got out of hand to the point coaches were getting booted. In fact, I could name drop a few refs who have gone above and beyond to show respect to coaches, improve relationships, listen to concerns, but also remain mentally tough when coaches get amped up over perceived calls that don’t go their way.  The fact we can have a discussion about a call with an open mind and low probability of getting offended or giving misconducts has been a nice change. I know I appreciate the hell out of that. Unfortunately, I doubt those refs will get the spotlight at state. That’s how it usually works.

I don't disagree, and I should add your experience mirrors what I've experienced.  I was referring to parents rather than coaches, and should have stated that more clearly.  I've seen very few coaches get booted over the last decade or so, and none that I can remember are wrestling coaches, and that's at any level....youth, MS, HS. Yes, I've seen a few wrestling coaches get hit with team point deductions, but even in those situations, the coaches have taken their medicine, and there have been no further issues. I'd even go so far as to say that wrestling coaches are generally better behaved than coaches of other sports.

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On 2/7/2023 at 12:20 PM, grappler-of-old said:

I know I may be opening a can of worms here but::::::.   I would like to hear from some older officials that have been around for a long long time.  

My question is this. are the coaches questioning/complaining/arguing more, less, or about the same as in the past.  I have been around for a long long time and I'm not sure I see a huge difference in the coaches now compared to yesteryear.  I actually believe that the coaches are arguing less.  You don't have the Joe Carr Sr. (Woo), Dave Madding (Scott) who would question or complain all the time.  I think that many officials have gotten rabbit ears.  Coaches in the corner will complain to each other about a call and the officials hear it and it gets to them.  

It's the one problem our whole society is facing, a little criticism or disagreement does not have to end the world, especially if it is not directly said to you. 

Then again I am probably wrong. My wife tells me I am all the time. :ph34r:

At the high school level it has been the same amount for at least 20 years. The issue is at middle and youth events. We have our younger officials there and you have coaches(parents) yelling at these kids. This drives away the younger officials.

When a kid sees their coach arguing a call with an official that leads them to think it is ok to disrespect an official as well. It has become a generational issue in all sports. EVERY sport is struggling to have officials at youth events because of the way they are treated. You rarely hear of issues at high school events between officials and coaches. This is because the KHSAA holds them accountable and will fine and suspended coaches. USA WRESTLING does the same when they are informed. But if it happens at an event that is not sanctioned (yes there are several middle school and youth events that are not in this state) there is no one to hold that coach accountable. 

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I would encourage coaches and parents to admonish their athletes when they argue with an official.  If your son/daughter argues with an official (even if they may be correct) it should never be supported.  Coaches, only have (ONE) coach ask about a call.  Not the athlete, the assistant coach and head coach teaming up on an official.  

As for coaches, if it is not the post season, does it really matter?  I know we all want to win, but allowing your athletes to see that sometimes things don't go your way is a huge lifelong lesson.  If we want the sport to grow then we need officials.  Give these young officials a break.  As I stated before, talk to them calmly after the fact.  It goes a long way to improving your relationship with the official and helps the official move forward.  Remember we all make mistakes.  I've made a lot in my advanced age. 

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On 2/7/2023 at 9:16 AM, BrandonBrooks28 said:

Does any of the money from region tournaments go to kfwc?  If not it should.  That way there wouldn't be a need for so many kids at youth state as far as money goes.  I know in football khsaa gets alot of the gate money from playoff games.  

Brandon we didn't do that this year an we footed the bill for all the awards, we let the Regional host's keep all the proceeds for their programs. This years youth was a record number (1320), that will definitely be capped next year, I never though we would've got that many kids participating

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9 hours ago, jnv858 said:

Brandon we didn't do that this year an we footed the bill for all the awards, we let the Regional host's keep all the proceeds for their programs. This years youth was a record number (1320), that will definitely be capped next year, I never though we would've got that many kids participating

Good problem to have.  The sport is growing here.  Thought it was well ran considering the number of kids.  

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