GL494

Not good KHSAA

Recommended Posts

38 minutes ago, The Deputy said:

Was it the same official that just decided the 150 pound state championship with a stalling call with 8 seconds to go in the third? That clown needs to be ran out of the gym and never needs to be invited back. 

Yes it was (157). Another absolutely terrible call by that ref. Such a shame.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, MLee said:

Yes it was (157). Another absolutely terrible call by that ref. Such a shame.

I have the match on film if you would like to watch it as well as a beautiful 2022 rule book. If you would like to watch the match together I'll put $50 they didn't call stalling fast enough with the ankle trapped. There is only one spot in the entire rule book that says "after 5 seconds with the knee trapped to the butt It is stalling" he gave him double that. I've never seen worse reffing in my 20 year career of wrestling but to say that match wasn't text book is laughable. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The reffing was very inconsistent. The refs didn’t call edge stalling all year then at the state tournament they just decide I’ll hit someone for stalling just because. Half the refs didn’t even call it correctly. Kids would be defending takedowns on the edge and get hit for stalling. It was the worst officiating I’ve seen all year. Things need to change big time. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, The Deputy said:

Was it the same official that just decided the 150 pound state championship with a stalling call with 8 seconds to go in the third? That clown needs to be ran out of the gym and never needs to be invited back. 

I think the stall out was an older guy.  It was hard to see from the stream if the ankle was trapped up by North Hardin in the 157 match.  If it was trapped for more than 5 seconds then that’s the right call according to how it’s normally been called.  Tough call.  
 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Elite Training Center KY said:

I have the match on film if you would like to watch it as well as a beautiful 2022 rule book. If you would like to watch the match together I'll put $50 they didn't call stalling fast enough with the ankle trapped. There is only one spot in the entire rule book that says "after 5 seconds with the knee trapped to the butt It is stalling" he gave him double that. I've never seen worse reffing in my 20 year career of wrestling but to say that match wasn't text book is laughable. 

I watched it on Flo. I couldn’t see the ankle trapped from the view they were broadcasting. After watching it again, I see what you’re saying.
 

I still don’t like the call, but it is in the rules. My main issue is bottom man was bellied out not attempting a move either. Isn’t that stalling too, according to the rulebook? 


No dog in the fight, but that match should have been settled in OT.

 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, bestmistake33 said:

I think the stall out was an older guy.  It was hard to see from the stream if the ankle was trapped up by North Hardin in the 157 match.  If it was trapped for more than 5 seconds then that’s the right call according to how it’s normally been called.  Tough call.  
 

 

Correct. I was wrong about it being the same ref.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, MLee said:

Did I just watch a kid score 15 points and get stalled out of a match while up by 4 w/ :08 seconds left??

Only in KY

Which match was that? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, bestmistake33 said:

I think the stall out was an older guy.  It was hard to see from the stream if the ankle was trapped up by North Hardin in the 157 match.  If it was trapped for more than 5 seconds then that’s the right call according to how it’s normally been called.  Tough call.  
 

 

That's the thing, It isn't a tough call. It is literally the only time in the rule book that has a clear cut amount of time to call stalling.

 

 

@MLee As far as guy on bottom being bellied out that is literally the reason It is stalling on top. They can't do anything with their ankle to the butt on bottom. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Elite Training Center KY said:

That's the thing, It isn't a tough call. It is literally the only time in the rule book that has a clear cut amount of time to call stalling.

 

 

@MLee As far as guy on bottom being bellied out that is literally the reason It is stalling on top. They can't do anything with their ankle to the butt on bottom. 

I’m guessing your emotionally tied to this match, which I’m certainly not. I’m trying to be respectful to the winner. He wrestled a great match.

Generally speaking, though. Big matches shouldn’t be won by questionable stalling calls. It’s bad for the sport. I don’t care what’s in the rule book. Nobody should win a state championship bellied out while not moving a muscle while top wrestler is doing all the work. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, MLee said:

I’m guessing your emotionally tied to this match, which I’m certainly not. I’m trying to be respectful to the winner. He wrestled a great match.

Generally speaking, though. Big matches shouldn’t be won by questionable stalling calls. It’s bad for the sport. I don’t care what’s in the rule book. Nobody should win a state championship bellied out while not moving a muscle while top wrestler is doing all the work. 

I am emotionally tied to the match as I am with a ton of kids in the state. It is also odd to use "questionable" and "in the rule book" in the same sentence the way you did. I get the match didn't end how you would like scoring wise but the rule book was followed to a T and I wish the rest of the matches this tournament had the same treatment. 
 

Since you don't know who I am behind the screen name I don't want you to think I'm hiding behind one.

Nathan Boston

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Elite Training Center KY said:

I am emotionally tied to the match as I am with a ton of kids in the state. It is also odd to use "questionable" and "in the rule book" in the same sentence the way you did. I get the match didn't end how you would like scoring wise but the rule book was followed to a T and I wish the rest of the matches this tournament had the same treatment. 
 

Since you don't know who I am behind the screen name I don't want you to think I'm hiding behind one.

Nathan Boston

I’ve watched the match multiple times on Flo. Bottom’s leg does come untrapped at some point while he’s on his belly, apparently waiting for OT.

I’d like to see from the rear view, but will take your word for it that it was trapped for 5 seconds or longer. Like I mentioned, he wrestled a great match. Congrats to him and all of his coaches.

I think most spectators would prefer OT to settle it. I also don’t think most state champs would prefer to win that way either. Bad all around, in my opinion. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, MLee said:

I’ve watched the match multiple times on Flo. Bottom’s leg does come untrapped at some point while he’s on his belly, apparently waiting for OT.

I’d like to see from the rear view, but will take your word for it that it was trapped for 5 seconds or longer. Like I mentioned, he wrestled a great match. Congrats to him and all of his coaches.

I think most spectators would prefer OT to settle it. I also don’t think most state champs would prefer to win that way either. Bad all around, in my opinion. 

I wasn't going to reply, but I decided to watch It from Flos angle as well to better understand your view. You can CLEARLY see the ankle trapped on camera from 18 seconds left until 8 seconds on the clock. Enough time for not 1 stall call by the book but 2. Kentucky complains about bad refs and when we have one make the right call people are upset we didn't let a ref control a outcome and send It to OT. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Elite Training Center KY said:

I wasn't going to reply, but I decided to watch It from Flos angle as well for better understand of your view. You can CLEARLY see the ankle trapped on camera from 18 seconds left until 8 seconds on the clock. Enough time for not 1 stall call by the book but 2. Kentucky complains about bad refs and when we have one make the right call people are upset we didn't let a ref control a outcome and send It to OT. 

KY complains about bad refs because we have some bad refs. You stated that yourself. Have you ever seen a wrestler get disqualified for stalling after scoring 15 points in a 5 minute match w/ 6 seconds left? We did this weekend. Ridiculous 

Again, I don’t question whether it was technically stalling. The rule speaks for itself. I just know there are situations where a no-call is warranted and in my opinion, this was clearly one of those situations.

Congrats to your guy. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, MLee said:

KY complains about bad refs because we have some bad refs. You stated that yourself. Have you ever seen a wrestler get disqualified for stalling after scoring 15 points in a 5 minute match w/ 6 seconds left? We did this weekend. Ridiculous 

Again, I don’t question whether it was technically stalling. The rule speaks for itself. I just know there are situations where a no-call is warranted and in my opinion, this was clearly one of those situations.

Congrats to your guy. 

That DQ was absolutely insane. I told a couple guys last week at semi-state that you better be atleast 6 points better to guarantee a win with how bad refs are and clearly I was still wrong lol

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, DrBaker said:

Found it. Sproles vs Armento. Just watched. Pretty bad. 

This was a travesty. How do you do that to a kid. Just horrible. 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, 385 said:

 

1 hour ago, 385 said:

This was a travesty. How do you do that to a kid. Just horrible. 

I wonder if it’s a coincidence that the official lives in Georgetown and the Great Crossing kid benefited from his poor decision? This guy for years has been pulling this junk and until recently only been invited back to officiate the state tournament. A few years back he was only a table worker at the state tournament because of poor officiating on the regional and state level in years prior. Are we in that bad of shape in Kentucky to bring him back to officiate the post season? What he did to this kid should be investigated and he shouldn’t be allowed to officiate the post season again. 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, The Deputy said:

 

I wonder if it’s a coincidence that the official lives in Georgetown and the Great Crossing kid benefited from his poor decision? This guy for years has been pulling this junk and until recently only been invited back to officiate the state tournament. A few years back he was only a table worker at the state tournament because of poor officiating on the regional and state level in years prior. Are we in that bad of shape in Kentucky to bring him back to officiate the post season? What he did to this kid should be investigated and he shouldn’t be allowed to officiate the post season again. 

He did call the GC kid on stalling earlier in the match, so it wasn't one sided completely. All the Cooper kid had to do at the end was not run away, he was up by enough points to get taken down, still it was a devastating way to lose.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hate to complain about refs because it’s so hard to keep them. And it’s a very hard job. Everyone misses things and makes mistakes. But it’s insane to me when they purposely dictate the match. Such as the stall dq and The 157 match with Herron. I know several of the refs did not like his behavior but to make the stall call with 6-8 seconds left is crazy. Both kids had conceded to take it to overtime and they hit one with stalling to prevent that. Right call or not I would rather see that decided by the wrestlers in ot. Ruined one of the best matches of the tournament. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, WVhighlander said:

I hate to complain about refs because it’s so hard to keep them. And it’s a very hard job. Everyone misses things and makes mistakes. But it’s insane to me when they purposely dictate the match. Such as the stall dq and The 157 match with Herron. I know several of the refs did not like his behavior but to make the stall call with 6-8 seconds left is crazy. Both kids had conceded to take it to overtime and they hit one with stalling to prevent that. Right call or not I would rather see that decided by the wrestlers in ot. Ruined one of the best matches of the tournament. 

I wasn’t there and the stream and replay makes it hard to see the ankle trap.  To play devils advocate here - are you saying that the ref should have ignored the rule book just to give a good show to the crowd?

If I’m understanding Elite Training KY - he is saying that the only time in the book where stalling is automatic instead of subjective is the 5 second heel/foot pin up.  
 

Ignore the rule book for 10 seconds here but pay intricate attention the other 5:50?  I’m not paying for a 2022 rule book but Nathan Boston seems like he has a good handle on rules.  If it’s in the book As automatic call I don’t think there was a choice.

That being said whoa boy OT would have been wild!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The reffing was truly atrocious all weekend. Extremely inconsistent. A kid gets DQ’d for stalling after having scored 15 points in 4.5 minutes? Whether or not it was by the book, that 157 pound match should have been decided in OT. There are some things you let kids decide. Especially reading the body language of both kids. They were slow to call takedowns and missed an abundance of calls - not just human error misses which we all agree happens to everyone. There was an unsportsmanlike called for jamming an underhook “too hard”. They called “fleeing the mat” when a bottom guy (who was losing) stood up and was run out of bounds. I’m pretty sure the bottom kid wanted to get out and tie it up instead of running out of bounds. The logic didn’t make sense. These refs either 1) haven’t wrestled or 2) don’t practice their craft in the way it needs to be done in order to perform well in big matches. 
 

One thing my home state does is they rank refs based on surveys at the end of every dual and tournament. Coaches fill them out and data is stored at the Athletic Association. Only the highest rated refs consistently throughout the season are given the opportunity to ref at state - regardless of experience. It has worked out well and doesn’t seem like a big ask. Also, recruiting ex-wrestlers who haven’t been out of the sport for very long could be mutually beneficial. 
 

Not sure what the best answer is, but the last 4 years have been some of the worst state tournaments I’ve ever competed or coached.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, GentleBeard said:

The reffing was truly atrocious all weekend. Extremely inconsistent. A kid gets DQ’d for stalling after having scored 15 points in 4.5 minutes? Whether or not it was by the book, that 157 pound match should have been decided in OT. There are some things you let kids decide. Especially reading the body language of both kids. They were slow to call takedowns and missed an abundance of calls - not just human error misses which we all agree happens to everyone. There was an unsportsmanlike called for jamming an underhook “too hard”. They called “fleeing the mat” when a bottom guy (who was losing) stood up and was run out of bounds. I’m pretty sure the bottom kid wanted to get out and tie it up instead of running out of bounds. The logic didn’t make sense. These refs either 1) haven’t wrestled or 2) don’t practice their craft in the way it needs to be done in order to perform well in big matches. 
 

One thing my home state does is they rank refs based on surveys at the end of every dual and tournament. Coaches fill them out and data is stored at the Athletic Association. Only the highest rated refs consistently throughout the season are given the opportunity to ref at state - regardless of experience. It has worked out well and doesn’t seem like a big ask. Also, recruiting ex-wrestlers who haven’t been out of the sport for very long could be mutually beneficial. 
 

Not sure what the best answer is, but the last 4 years have been some of the worst state tournaments I’ve ever competed or coached.

Do you think the Trinity kid who has his ankle trapped for 8 seconds with 22 seconds to go would agree to settling in OT?

I did fail to see the stalling warning before the point at the end.  When was the warning?

I like the rank refs idea a whole lot.  I think Tennessee does that too.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, bestmistake33 said:

I wasn’t there and the stream and replay makes it hard to see the ankle trap.  To play devils advocate here - are you saying that the ref should have ignored the rule book just to give a good show to the crowd?

If I’m understanding Elite Training KY - he is saying that the only time in the book where stalling is automatic instead of subjective is the 5 second heel/foot pin up.  
 

Ignore the rule book for 10 seconds here but pay intricate attention the other 5:50?  I’m not paying for a 2022 rule book but Nathan Boston seems like he has a good handle on rules.  If it’s in the book As automatic call I don’t think there was a choice.

That being said whoa boy OT would have been wild!!

You would be correct. It's hilarious seeing people complain about refs deciding a match then say "well there was only 8 seconds left so maybe let them look past It here." The ankle was trapped with 20 seconds left and let him ride if for 10 which is double the time they had to. In the video you can see the side ref who was standing directly in front of Herrons coaches say watch the trapped ankle and point. Exact time on the clock at this point was :13 seconds.

 

 

 

edit: to answer your question referring to what George was most likely thinking.

I wonder if Trinity is going to make me pay for this fat state ring I'm getting. If It wasn't that It was probably somewhere along the line of which flavor Blizzard he was going to get on the way home.

 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, bestmistake33 said:

I wasn’t there and the stream and replay makes it hard to see the ankle trap.  To play devils advocate here - are you saying that the ref should have ignored the rule book just to give a good show to the crowd?

If I’m understanding Elite Training KY - he is saying that the only time in the book where stalling is automatic instead of subjective is the 5 second heel/foot pin up.  
 

Ignore the rule book for 10 seconds here but pay intricate attention the other 5:50?  I’m not paying for a 2022 rule book but Nathan Boston seems like he has a good handle on rules.  If it’s in the book As automatic call I don’t think there was a choice.

That being said whoa boy OT would have been wild!!

I admit, I didn’t read the rules until after Nathan B. addressed it. After reading it, I’m still unclear. The rule book uses a specific situation where the top wrestler “grasps the far ankle and brings to the buttocks in attempting to break down the opponent.”  I assume in a tight waste/far ankle breakdown then hold the ankle to the butt after bottom wresler is broken down.

I think we all agree, that didn’t happen. At no time did I see top grasp the ankle and bring to bottom’s butt. The ankle got trapped as the top wrestler worked up the body for wrist control. It wouldn’t surprise me if top wrestler didn’t even know it was trapped. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now