State first round?

[DrBaker 497]

This really makes zero sense. Some of these kids will see the same guys 3 weeks in a row. It’s just dumb. How many times does Thornton have to wrestle Thomas, Brown wrestle Raney. We need a bigger arena and a 32 man state. 

[385 109]

Agreed.

[GentleBeard 145]

But, it’s state lol you could conceivably go 4-6 and place in the top 6 with back to back semi slides. Or, one could finish 8th at semi state and still have the opportunity to be a state champ. Pretty wild definition of what constitutes a state tournament.

[BroOfCoach 23]

It should be a separate tournament with no points carried over to the State "Final Round." 

[WVhighlander 27]

4 minutes ago, BroOfCoach said:

It should be a separate tournament with no points carried over to the State "Final Round." 

Agreed. Coach teeter said they call it semis state and consider it state due to khsaa wanting to increase numbers at the state tournament. Which makes no sense to me. No one considers semi state the same as state. I’m wonder if it changes where the money goes. If the khsaa considers semi state the same tournament state does it mean they get the gate money?  Does it change the profit?  

[halfhalfhalf 121]

20 minutes ago, WVhighlander said:

Agreed. Coach teeter said they call it semis state and consider it state due to khsaa wanting to increase numbers at the state tournament. Which makes no sense to me. No one considers semi state the same as state. I’m wonder if it changes where the money goes. If the khsaa considers semi state the same tournament state does it mean they get the gate money?  Does it change the profit?  

It does not increase the numbers.... It increases the profits for KHSAA and also doesn't require teams to stay in Lexington for 3-4 days. It really does not save money on transportation as woodford and anderson are traveling to union. I can understand they are trying to mitigate risks of covid but this yr it makes no sense as UK and everyone else has been wide open with full attendance. Id like to see it change back to a 32 man bracket after next yr and the new venue in lexington be the host to the tourney.

 

[DrBaker 497]

19 minutes ago, WVhighlander said:

Agreed. Coach teeter said they call it semis state and consider it state due to khsaa wanting to increase numbers at the state tournament. Which makes no sense to me. No one considers semi state the same as state. I’m wonder if it changes where the money goes. If the khsaa considers semi state the same tournament state does it mean they get the gate money?  Does it change the profit?  

Yes, they get the money. 

[GentleBeard 145]

Wonder why they don’t just spread the 16 man bracket over the course of 3 days, then? It’s inconvenient, doesn’t make sense, but at least they’re honest. It would mitigate the error of calling “semi state” as part of the actual state tournament. I could be wrong but I’m not sure of another sport where you can lose up to 3 times in the post season and still call yourself a state champ.

[VisionQuest 64]

24 minutes ago, GentleBeard said:

Wonder why they don’t just spread the 16 man bracket over the course of 3 days, then? It’s inconvenient, doesn’t make sense, but at least they’re honest. It would mitigate the error of calling “semi state” as part of the actual state tournament. I could be wrong but I’m not sure of another sport where you can lose up to 3 times in the post season and still call yourself a state champ.

Could lose 5 times,  lose twice in region and finish 4th, advance to semi, lose 3 more and finish 8th and qualify.  

[neverbreak 10]

This is a modified remake of the district, region, state format that ran from the mid 90's through to the early 2000's.

Back then you could be 4th in District, 4th in Region, and be state champ.  You could also be 4th, 4th, and 6th and have a 6-7 record and be top 6 at state (only placed six with the 16 man bracket).

My point being, until it is the final tournament losses don't really matter, they never did in the past and they don't now.

 

They are calling it the state tournament because of the "everyone deserves a trophy" mentality. 

 

If it was really the first round then:

1) scores would carry over (and they are not this year...thank god)

2) champs from this weekend would be finalists next weekend

3) runner ups would be placed into consolation semis to wrestle the 3rd place finisher from the opposite semi-state

4) wrestlers with two losses would be eliminated from the second weekend of competition.

5) state tournament would pace top 6

[Coach Burton 15]

They aren't trying to go back to a 16 man state.  They don't have a "everybody deserves a trophy mentality."  They are broke.  If they had money, the state tournament would be in an arena somewhere with 32 man brackets like it was.  That's what everyone wants, even the KHSAA.  They can't can't just split the normal tournament in half because the way the match ups are made and the way brackets cross.  Teams would have wrestlers at both semi states.  So yeah, it's a little different, but they're trying to do right by the kids and keep 32 wrestlers in the post season after region.  It's not ideal, but it's not permanent either.

[bestmistake33 28]

4 minutes ago, Coach Burton said:

They aren't trying to go back to a 16 man state.  They don't have a "everybody deserves a trophy mentality."  They are broke.  If they had money, the state tournament would be in an arena somewhere with 32 man brackets like it was.  That's what everyone wants, even the KHSAA.  They can't can't just split the normal tournament in half because the way the match ups are made and the way brackets cross.  Teams would have wrestlers at both semi states.  So yeah, it's a little different, but they're trying to do right by the kids and keep 32 wrestlers in the post season after region.  It's not ideal, but it's not permanent either.

I really hope that you are right about this!  If they were planning on moving back to 32, wouldn't they already need a contract in place for a venue for 2023 season?

I have no idea how they are going to run the 2nd week of state at GRCHS this year.  It was packed last year with 8-man brackets and limiting who was allowed to have a ticket.

[thegreatgatsby 23]

22 minutes ago, bestmistake33 said:

I really hope that you are right about this!  If they were planning on moving back to 32, wouldn't they already need a contract in place for a venue for 2023 season?

2023 First Round sites have already been selected.  1-4 will be at Louisville Central and 5-8 will be at Ryle.

[bestmistake33 28]

4 minutes ago, thegreatgatsby said:

2023 First Round sites have already been selected.  1-4 will be at Louisville Central and 5-8 will be at Ryle.

Oh wow.  Didn’t know they figured that out already.  This doesn’t seem like a temporary thing then.  Wonder how long this goes on. 

[grappler-of-old 44]

1 hour ago, neverbreak said:

This is a modified remake of the district, region, state format that ran from the mid 90's through to the early 2000's.

Back then you could be 4th in District, 4th in Region, and be state champ.  You could also be 4th, 4th, and 6th and have a 6-7 record and be top 6 at state (only placed six with the 16 man bracket).

My point being, until it is the final tournament losses don't really matter, they never did in the past and they don't now.

 

They are calling it the state tournament because of the "everyone deserves a trophy" mentality. 

 

If it was really the first round then:

1) scores would carry over (and they are not this year...thank god)

2) champs from this weekend would be finalists next weekend

3) runner ups would be placed into consolation semis to wrestle the 3rd place finisher from the opposite semi-state

4) wrestlers with two losses would be eliminated from the second weekend of competition.

5) state tournament would pace top 6

Actually District, Region, State, was from 1980 thru 2001 Top 4 in District went to Region top 4 in region went to state, placed top 6

Had a teammate that placed 5th in district got in region as alternate (Someone did not make weight), was 5th in region got in state (someone got hurt in region finals) as alternate, placed 6th in state. 

Do you really want to have the setup you stated above for state?  I agree they are all separate tourneys.  Even in the NCAA's a second in conference can win the title. 

Someone winning the title over someone they lost to the weekend before is no different than someone from region 1 defeating someone from region 8 after losing to him once or twice in the season. 

Now calling Semi-state wrestlers state qualifiers is a stretch, but hopefully this is just a temporary thing (yeah right) and we get back to a 32 man bracket at state. 

 

[Tbagnky 33]

1 hour ago, bestmistake33 said:

I really hope that you are right about this!  If they were planning on moving back to 32, wouldn't they already need a contract in place for a venue for 2023 season?

I have no idea how they are going to run the 2nd week of state at GRCHS this year.  It was packed last year with 8-man brackets and limiting who was allowed to have a ticket.

Are they limiting tickets again this year? This could put a damper on some extended family's plans.

[DrBaker 497]

51 minutes ago, Tbagnky said:

Are they limiting tickets again this year? This could put a damper on some extended family's plans.

I think they have to. 

[DrBaker 497]

3 hours ago, neverbreak said:

This is a modified remake of the district, region, state format that ran from the mid 90's through to the early 2000's.

Back then you could be 4th in District, 4th in Region, and be state champ.  You could also be 4th, 4th, and 6th and have a 6-7 record and be top 6 at state (only placed six with the 16 man bracket).

My point being, until it is the final tournament losses don't really matter, they never did in the past and they don't now.

 

They are calling it the state tournament because of the "everyone deserves a trophy" mentality. 

 

If it was really the first round then:

1) scores would carry over (and they are not this year...thank god)

2) champs from this weekend would be finalists next weekend

3) runner ups would be placed into consolation semis to wrestle the 3rd place finisher from the opposite semi-state

4) wrestlers with two losses would be eliminated from the second weekend of competition.

5) state tournament would pace top 6

Not sure if anyone noticed that points aren’t carrying over. 

[neverbreak 10]

19 hours ago, grappler-of-old said:

Actually District, Region, State, was from 1980 thru 2001 Top 4 in District went to Region top 4 in region went to state, placed top 6

Had a teammate that placed 5th in district got in region as alternate (Someone did not make weight), was 5th in region got in state (someone got hurt in region finals) as alternate, placed 6th in state. 

Do you really want to have the setup you stated above for state?  I agree they are all separate tourneys.  Even in the NCAA's a second in conference can win the title. 

Someone winning the title over someone they lost to the weekend before is no different than someone from region 1 defeating someone from region 8 after losing to him once or twice in the season. 

Now calling Semi-state wrestlers state qualifiers is a stretch, but hopefully this is just a temporary thing (yeah right) and we get back to a 32 man bracket at state. 

 

No I do not want the setup to be as stated in my previous post.  I was pointing out that the only way KHSAA can consider this the first round of state is to eliminate anyone with a loss as a possible champ, carry points over to the next weekend, and let the placements from "1st round" fall in like I previously stated.

 

I personally think they should stop blowing smoke and just call it what it is a cheaper way for them to make money.  Tickets for Semi-Sate are $13 per person and for the "State Tournament" tickets are $25 per person with no option to only purchase Friday or Saturday tickets separately. 

[neverbreak 10]

17 hours ago, DrBaker said:

Not sure if anyone noticed that points aren’t carrying over. 

https://khsaa.org/wrestling/2022/firstroundinstructions.pdf

Click the link above and scroll to Page 10 and you will find what is posted below.

FORMAT/SCORING/BRACKETS/ORDER OF BOUTS

The State First Round Tournament will be conducted as a full-wrestleback format (consolation to 8th place) in each weight class.

The State First Round Tournament will be scored to the top 8 positions.

Weigh-ins and bouts will be conducted in bracket order, beginning with the lowest class.

A complete set of tournament brackets will only be available in advance of the state first round at KHSAA.org.

There will be no exclusion for wrestlers from the same region meeting in a specific round.

The State First Round event will be scored as its own event without points carrying to the State Final Round.

[grappler-of-old 44]

So does that mean medals and team trophies? 

[neverbreak 10]

11 minutes ago, grappler-of-old said:

So does that mean medals and team trophies? 

page 13 of the previously linked document answers your question.

COVID AWARDS PRESENTATION PROTOCOL

There are no KHSAA awards at the State Tournament First Round.

[CradleKY 132]

makes no sense to me. 

[Checkmate 22]

On 2/14/2022 at 3:25 PM, thegreatgatsby said:

2023 First Round sites have already been selected.  1-4 will be at Louisville Central and 5-8 will be at Ryle.

Please tell me that central is not hosting semi state next year!

Regionals alone was a catastrophe

(no offense)to central but there was no parking ,no track wrestling dashboard,,no mat assignments ,kids were running the tables and accidentally unplugging the score boards ,missing points because they were on their phone and the concession stand closed 4 hours before the tournament was over .

I’m not trying to be disrespectful,I just don’t think they can handle that kind of volume.

[Chris Duke 284]

1 minute ago, Checkmate said:

Please tell me that central is not hosting semi state next year!

Regionals alone was a catastrophe

(no offense)to central but there was no parking ,no track wrestling dashboard,,no mat assignments ,kids were running the tables and accidentally unplugging the score boards ,missing points because they were on their phone and the concession stand closed 4 hours before the tournament was over .

I’m not trying to be disrespectful,I just don’t think they can handle that kind of volume.

I feel the same way about Ryle’s ability to handle this tournament next year.  It will be a complete mess.