Semi state seeding

[DrBaker 497]

4 minutes ago, Ranger123 said:

Not buying the rank wrestlers path.  Just as many flaws there.  Maybe for the top guys, but not for full seeding.  I've only checked it out a few times over the years and seen girls with 4-0 records ranked above good guys.

RankWrestlers has flaws for sure. It is track. I was just showing that that Ohio and Indiana do put results in. You put in the 16 wrestlers for state and it will seed them pretty damn close. They might have to wrestle a regional opponent again in the 1st round, but that’s just how it works. I just hate seeing Deck vs Adams and Johnson vs Sheffer at 9am when they deserved to be on the big stage. 

[chad.greenwell 21]

I just like the data and true percentages you can see on RankWrestlers. Track seems to blindly look at records and factor that too high in seeding. We've all been in a seeding meeting where it goes like this:

Why do you have the 2 seed? What's your record?

12-0

How many are forfeits?

9...

Lol.

[Ranger123 43]

18 minutes ago, chad.greenwell said:

I just like the data and true percentages you can see on RankWrestlers. Track seems to blindly look at records and factor that too high in seeding. We've all been in a seeding meeting where it goes like this:

Why do you have the 2 seed? What's your record?

12-0

How many are forfeits?

9...

Lol.

Agree with that.  But as long as the criteria is appropriately set (record is last resort) then it will work out pretty well.

[grappler-of-old 44]

38 minutes ago, Ranger123 said:

I don't believe the "track" seeding from last year was jacked up.  I thought it was pretty good.  Once you understand the criteria and the process it made sense.  Now there may be debates about the exact criteria and order applied, but overall I thought last year was very good.  But unfortunately we have too many whiners who complained and now we are back to random draws.

Just because there are upsets doesn't make seeding wrong or inaccurate.  Seeding is based on the actual results and objectively sets the bracket based on what has happened prior to the event.  The Bengals were not even close to the best team in the AFC all year and had to run the gauntlet to make the Super Bowl.  In the end they proved they were the best team in the AFC when it counted.  Doesn't make the seeding wrong or suggest there shouldn't have been seeding.

     Here is where I have the problem.  Last year Savage got the #1 seed at Semi state after getting 3rd at Region, losing to Brooksbank. This is why I only want the regional champs seeded. Otherwise why wrestle the placement round. All you have to do is wrestle until you qualify, no medals are given. 

have not gone through the other brackets but I am sure this type of thing happened someplace else.  The coaches absolutely hatted having to wrestle kids from their own region the 1st round of state, that is why it was changed 20 years ago. 

     I am not saying my opinion can't be changed, it has already, (Ranger was implemental in this) I was against any seeding at state.  I have been convinced that seeding the champions will solve most if not all the problems. I believe seeding more than that will muddle up the rest of the bracket. 

[Ranger123 43]

AH.  I would exactly equate the Savage-Brooksbank saga to the Bengals.  Cincinnati beat the Chiefs late in the season.  But seeding is based on the entire body of work which favored KC and Savage last year.  In the end, Brooksbank and Cincy showed they were better when it mattered.  Nothing wrong with that.  Just the way it goes sometimes.

I'm not totally opposed to just seeding the champs.  I was the MS president when we implemented that process for MS.  It works well.  But MS has much much less head to head results or even common opponents along with just less reliable result tracking.  While I'm sure a lot of folks don't like wrestling regional opponents early at state, I am more concerned with a state champ carrying a weak region to advantaged matchups rather than what a kid has earned by their own results.

[grappler-of-old 44]

The only difference it that it was a post season event unlike the Bengals. 

Plus your talking to one of those weird people who does not watch NFL so I don't know the criteria for seeding in NFL

[naplesme 58]

16 hours ago, DrBaker said:

That’s the thing, we can use technology we already have and give analytic data on wins and losses in and out of state. Does beating a champ from Indiana affect it more than the #5 kid in Ky? Absolutely. Matches are required to be put in track. This data is right there in front of us. Track can do it in the blink of an eye. It’s not perfect, but it’s easily adjustable. We can seat the top 100 if we wanted to. 

But there-in lies the problem. Coaches are required to put the information into track, yet no one enforces this rule and teams don't always put in their results. Some wait until the end of the season, others never bother to put in anything. Until the powers that be back up their threat of sanctions for those who do not update their track records, track will not be as effective as it could be.

Edited February 16, 2022 by naplesme
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[Ranger123 43]

12 minutes ago, grappler-of-old said:

The only difference it that it was a post season event unlike the Bengals. 

Plus your talking to one of those weird people who does not watch NFL so I don't know the criteria for seeding in NFL

True.  But that win at region just made the head to head a wash.  Other criteria put Savage as the 1.  

 

I actually don't have time to watch much football either.  But they have their criteria and it is what it is.  Once everyone knows that you live by it.

[Kylemckune 10]

Just seed the 4 region champions. That is simple. The goal is always to have 1 and 2 meet in the finals. It makes upsets much sweeter, and provides a much more accurate placement for the wrestlers. The one problem that happens is when 1 and 2 are from the same region like Cole and Isaac. Even in that scenario I think it should be fine to put them on opposite sides of the bracket, coaches should all agree on that. Problem is that they want the best scenario for their wrestler or team and then they argue against seeding. So everything is always relative to each persons personal scenario.

Love all the friendly banter though. 

Ranger when are new rankings coming out? lol

[Ranger123 43]

tonight

[DrBaker 497]

1 hour ago, naplesme said:

But there-in lies the problem. Coaches are required to put the information into track, yet no one enforces this rule and teams don't always put in their results. Some wait until the end of the season, others never bother to put in anything. Until the powers that be back up their threat of sanctions for those who do not update their track records, track will not be as effective as it could be.

They put them in when they want those regional seeds. Lol. There are enough matches posted to do a pretty good job seeding the tourneys. 

[panthers 62]

Track has its problems and not a big fan but it really doesn't matter if not for two things one when someone wins that shouldn't and two seeing a match up we want to be semis or finals. Truth we cant fix any of that because its truly out of our hands. What would help is if the other issues with track were to be fixed. I don't see any reason track cant make it so you can not print your next weight sheet till after you not only put in your weights as it is now but your matches and update records. It would be a easy fix for track to do this if they wanted or was asked by the state but its just not important enough to the ones who could maybe make that happen. And as stated before there is no plenty for not using track you see it all the time even at regionals kids seeded with a 0-0 or 3-1 when you know they wrestled more than that. 

[119Rider 61]

5 minutes ago, panthers said:

Track has its problems and not a big fan but it really doesn't matter if not for two things one when someone wins that shouldn't and two seeing a match up we want to be semis or finals. Truth we cant fix any of that because its truly out of our hands. What would help is if the other issues with track were to be fixed. I don't see any reason track cant make it so you can not print your next weight sheet till after you not only put in your weights as it is now but your matches and update records. It would be a easy fix for track to do this if they wanted or was asked by the state but its just not important enough to the ones who could maybe make that happen. And as stated before there is no plenty for not using track you see it all the time even at regionals kids seeded with a 0-0 or 3-1 when you know they wrestled more than that. 

This is not mandated by track, this is mandated by your local State Association. Missouri already does this and holds coaches accountable for not putting in results. But, MSHSAA is the one who tells Trackwrestling their procedures. You can have 2 weigh in sheets open, if results or weights are not entered then you are locked out. Track will only do what it is told by the associations, therefore it is not a Trackwrestling problem but a KHSAA problem. All results and weigh ins sheets are verified at district seeding meeting. 

[Checkmate 22]

2 hours ago, Ranger123 said:

tonight

Good luck my friend !!

Thanks for giving us something to talk about and keeping the wrestlers motivated 

[naplesme 58]

3 hours ago, 119Rider said:

This is not mandated by track, this is mandated by your local State Association. Missouri already does this and holds coaches accountable for not putting in results. But, MSHSAA is the one who tells Trackwrestling their procedures. You can have 2 weigh in sheets open, if results or weights are not entered then you are locked out. Track will only do what it is told by the associations, therefore it is not a Trackwrestling problem but a KHSAA problem. All results and weigh ins sheets are verified at district seeding meeting. 

Thanks I was going to mention that Missouri does this. So the KHSAA could actually do it's job and hold schools resposible for inputing their results, as they threaten to do, but never backed up.

[bestmistake33 28]

3 minutes ago, naplesme said:

Thanks I was going to mention that Missouri does this. So why can't the KHSAA actually hold schools resposible for inputing their results, as they threaten to do, but never backed up?

Same reason the KHSAA isn’t doing an awards ceremony at State or listening to feedback.   They don’t care about wrestling.  

[panthers 62]

17 hours ago, 119Rider said:

This is not mandated by track, this is mandated by your local State Association. Missouri already does this and holds coaches accountable for not putting in results. But, MSHSAA is the one who tells Trackwrestling their procedures. You can have 2 weigh in sheets open, if results or weights are not entered then you are locked out. Track will only do what it is told by the associations, therefore it is not a Trackwrestling problem but a KHSAA problem. All results and weigh ins sheets are verified at district seeding meeting. 

Yes I agree thats why I said if the state would ask them to do so. I knew other states did this just wasnt sure which ones so thanks for the input as well. Who knows maybe someone high enough will see it and help with this problem. 

[119Rider 61]

I wish the same thing Panthers. Sad thing is that I don't live in Kentucky anymore but still hate the way the wrestling community is treated by the state. They wanted to grow wrestling and did so with the 32 man bracket but seem to have just stopped there with that momentum. Putting together more efficient tourneys and the best representation of what wrestling truly is would have brought lots of money to the state. Once wrestling families are in and hooked, they probably spend more than any other family. Travel to tourneys, food, hours upon hours of dedication. If the state would have jumped on that then they could have been reaping the rewards now.