Sign in to follow this  
coachteater

Semi state

Recommended Posts

Starting this season, 2021-22 , we will have 2 semi states. 

Regions 1-4

Region 5-8

Top 4 from region make 16 man semi state.

Top 8 from semi state form 16 man state final

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok now to open a can of worms. 

Please tell me they are not going to seed this tournament like last year. 

Please tell me they are only going to seed the #1s from each region and then follow a 1v4 2v3 from region format. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, grappler-of-old said:

Ok now to open a can of worms. 

Please tell me they are not going to seed this tournament like last year. 

Please tell me they are only going to seed the #1s from each region and then follow a 1v4 2v3 from region format. 

My understanding it will be 1-4, 2-3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Will the semi state still be an extension of the state tourney or will it be it's own entity?

Will the team points roll over to the next weekend as last year or will there be team and individual awards at semi-state like they did back in 1986 and 1987? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, grappler-of-old said:

Will the semi state still be an extension of the state tourney or will it be it's own entity?

Will the team points roll over to the next weekend as last year or will there be team and individual awards at semi-state like they did back in 1986 and 1987? 

Khsaa should have new competition rules out by season start on the website, but its my understanding it will be like last year. The khsaa wanted to make sure that 32 kids still reached "state"  which semi state is part of. So points roll over and no semi state medals. Once again, thats my understanding,  I been wrong before. (Like twice , lol)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So if it's going to be an extension like last year, will they actually abide by the rules as stated? For example they should have taken all of the points a certain Paducah Tilghman wrestler earned at semi-state, when he got kicked out of the State tournament but they didn't. So will they continue to make up the rules as they go or actually enforce the rules as stated?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They are completely different tourneys. They will all be reseeded afterwards. Those points shouldn’t carry over. Other sports hang banners about 2nd place district 7. Why not give teams a chance to hang a semi state championship banner? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, DrBaker said:

They are completely different tourneys. They will all be reseeded afterwards. Those points shouldn’t carry over. Other sports hang banners about 2nd place district 7. Why not give teams a chance to hang a semi state championship banner? 

There is no reason for seeding at the final round of the state tourney.  Since there is only 2 semi-states with top 8 advancing.  The 2 number 1's will be separated and then 1v8, 2v7, 3v6, 4v5. 

It is absurd to seed all the wrestlers anyway only the Champions should be seeded at best. 

Wow do some wrestling teams actually get to hang a banner if they are wrestling region runner up?  Where I came from they wouldn't even hang a state runner up title for wrestling, and took an act of god to get the state championship banner up in the basketball gym. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, grappler-of-old said:

There is no reason for seeding at the final round of the state tourney.  Since there is only 2 semi-states with top 8 advancing.  The 2 number 1's will be separated and then 1v8, 2v7, 3v6, 4v5. 

It is absurd to seed all the wrestlers anyway only the Champions should be seeded at best. 

Wow do some wrestling teams actually get to hang a banner if they are wrestling region runner up?  Where I came from they wouldn't even hang a state runner up title for wrestling, and took an act of god to get the state championship banner up in the basketball gym. 

Putting 1vs8 is still reseeding. I don’t know what other wrestling teams put up, but I know basketball teams put up banners for far less than semi state. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My hope is that this is still just temporary. (I know it's a slim hope). If this is temporary then we will again return to the 32 man bracket NOT AT A HIGH SCHOOL GYM.

At the very least it is allowing teams to claim wrestling qualifying for the state tourney.  This is much more important than the top school once again getting another banner/trophy/award. 

I was not a believer at first but this technique has caused wrestling to grow in both competitors and teams.  Smaller teams can have a little success to spark more interest in the sport at their school.  The only other way to possibly reach this is to have a separate small school and large school state tourney. (Which I believe no one wants.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, grappler-of-old said:

 The only other way to possibly reach this is to have a separate small school and large school state tourney. (Which I believe no one wants.)

Tons of people want a split, including myself.  I talk to coaches all the time wanting it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, coachteater said:

Tons of people want a split, including myself.  I talk to coaches all the time wanting it. 

I think one of the few things Kentucky does right by the sport is having a single class. It leaves no doubt who the best in the state is. Splitting it and having 16 total placers in a state with 120 teams, some of which have extremely low numbers, seems unnecessary. I don’t think state champs want to see someone else also claim that title without a match to decide it. I like the undisputed title. 

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, coachteater said:

Tons of people want a split, including myself.  I talk to coaches all the time wanting it. 

I don't want the split. A small school has been winning overall anyways, others can compete too. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I dont think many realize is why we want the split. Its not about the competition, its about the growth. Its proven to promote growth in many states, and that is a positive.  In my opinion (which isnt always right) the positive affect and growth is worth the affects a split has on competition.  Will it water it down so, yes, at first. But competition level will continue to get tougher.  Because people cant stand the thought of multiple state champs, they want to hold the overall growth back. Honestly what do it hurt having 2 classes and 2 champions at each weight? Is it just egos that drive the need for 1 champion, just to say your the best? Thats worth hurting the growth of the sport as a whole? Maybe im missing something,  but that pretty much seems to be the only argument I get for staying 1 class. But in the end, doesnt much matter, khsaa wont split. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 I think ultimately most would be OK with a split.  But at this point there would only be about 50-60 schools in each division.  I don't think that is enough schools to need a second division.  if we could reach 150 schools participating then we could look at the possibility.  

Heck we already had a region in the last couple of years that could not fill an 8 bracket at region. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, grappler-of-old said:

 I think ultimately most would be OK with a split.  But at this point there would only be about 50-60 schools in each division.  I don't think that is enough schools to need a second division.  if we could reach 150 schools participating then we could look at the possibility.  

Heck we already had a region in the last couple of years that could not fill an 8 bracket at region. 

Teater and I talk regularly about it. I said the magic # is also 150. I think over 140 would be better. My issue isn't the split, but some of the regions distance. I know out east you have some hauls. 

Before a split occurs girls need to be sanctioned first. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At first glance, I think it waters it down too much, but I don’t really think so anymore. Idaho and Tenn have lots of divisions and champs and it only helps participation. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe some regions have more but I know region 2 small school (NKY) would only have 7 schools and the participants (using 2020 numbers) would have been 66 in the whole touney. Averaging a little over 5 a bracket. 

* That is using state dual alignment which only have 6 regions. 

I believe you need at least 10 schools with an average participation of 90 to legitimatize a split.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I pulled some numbers from a few states.  There are dozens more examples of states in our participant range with multiple divisions, but I don't have time at the moment to go through it all. 

OK: 133 Schools - 4 Divisions, ID: 101 Schools - 4 Divisions, SC: 119 Schools - 4 Divisions, NM: 101 Schools - 3 Divisions, WY: 51 Schools - 3 Divisions.  On and on...

When I was younger I was all about less divisions, but my opinion is changing.  The state tournament will be watered down, but it WILL create more excitement for smaller schools and probably more excitement overall as well.  At the end of the day our kids aren't getting recruited from the state tournament so wrestling in the offseason is and will continue to be the key for kids wanting to compete at the next level.  

 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, grappler-of-old said:

Maybe some regions have more but I know region 2 small school (NKY) would only have 7 schools and the participants (using 2020 numbers) would have been 66 in the whole touney. Averaging a little over 5 a bracket. 

* That is using state dual alignment which only have 6 regions. 

I believe you need at least 10 schools with an average participation of 90 to legitimatize a split.

I think you would see less regions, like west Virginia.  

They are kind of a hybrid. A/aa has around 65 teams total, they wrestle together and there's 4 regions. 

Aaa has around 32 teams, 4 regions. They wrestle seperate from a/aa.

Interested about wv, they have around 90 teams, but only 180 public schools almost half wrestle. Population 1.8 million 

Ky has 120 wrestling and 443 public schools. Population 4.5 million

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, grappler-of-old said:

I glanced at WY just out of curiosity.  They accomplish this by allowing 2 participant per school per weight class. 

I know Idaho does too. A buddy got 2nd in state behind his own teammate. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this