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KHSAA charging coaches to attend semi state

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4 spectators per wrestler. 112 wrestlers per semi state. $20 per spectator(448) total gate $8960. Subtract officials pay $1200(approximate). Can’t think of any other expenses unless the host site is getting a portion of the gate, which they definitely should. The Saturday take will be about $7700 x 4 = $30,000.  

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These money hungry mfers. The joke gets bigger and bigger. 2 coaches for 30 teams makes them another $1200. Like $20 wasn’t a rip off enough. 

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Where does it say coaches are being charged? I see where the team party is limited to two coaches (which makes sense with attendance limits) unless the team has more than 6 wrestlers, in which case you get three.  I also see where coaches passes aren’t accepted, but that’s not unusual for postseason events. But I don’t see where it says coaches with the team party have to pay.  I hope I’m right, because charging coaches would just be flat wrong.

As far as cost of tickets, isn't this roughly what you'd pay for a one day admission to the state tourney in a normal year? No it's not cheap, but it's not out of line of what it's cost in the past. It's also in line with what you'd pay at other state tournaments. When my son's team made it to the state baseball tournament, and advanced to the final four, 3 games+3 days of parking for two people cost us over $100.

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Head coaches do not have to pay, nor 1 assistant coach on any team.  As CB said if you have over 5 competitors then you get another coach.  I don't think this is much different than in the past.  If you have 2 kids at the state tourney is there really a necessity to have 4 coaches there? 

if you have 3 kids there is a possibility for all three to be up at once.  However a match is not allowed to start without a coach in the corner.  Just remind your wrestlers of this rule and tell the official if there is no coach in the corner.  Many years ago I had 5 at the state tourney and I was the only coach.  I know of other coaches that have done the same thing. 

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9 hours ago, GentleBeard said:

Wonder how many coaches are going to get free passes at Rupp this year? 

None. Only the 16 coaching staffs of the participating teams will get in for free. Everyone other coach will have to pay.

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1 hour ago, rjs4470 said:

None. Only the 16 coaching staffs of the participating teams will get in for free. Everyone other coach will have to pay.

The entire coaching staff of each competing team will get in free? Wish we had that luxury.

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18 minutes ago, GentleBeard said:

The entire coaching staff of each competing team will get in free? Wish we had that luxury.

Don't know if it's the entire staff...I don't see where that info has been released. But if you think about it, even if 4 or 5 coaches get in for basketball, the ratio of coaches to players is roughly the same for basketball as it is for wrestling. If you qualify 10 for state (which most teams won't) you have a 1 coach for every three or so wrestlers ratio. If you have 5 wrestlers you get a 1 coach for every 2.5 wreslters. Basketball rosters are limited to 15, so by extension, keeping ratio's the same, basketball SHOULD get 4-5 coaches. If you look at comparing apples to apples, basketball isn't being treated any differently in the coaching numbers aspect.

 

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17 minutes ago, rjs4470 said:

Don't know if it's the entire staff...I don't see where that info has been released. But if you think about it, even if 4 or 5 coaches get in for basketball, the ratio of coaches to players is roughly the same for basketball as it is for wrestling. If you qualify 10 for state (which most teams won't) you have a 1 coach for every three or so wrestlers ratio. If you have 5 wrestlers you get a 1 coach for every 2.5 wreslters. Basketball rosters are limited to 15, so by extension, keeping ratio's the same, basketball SHOULD get 4-5 coaches. If you look at comparing apples to apples, basketball isn't being treated any differently in the coaching numbers aspect.

 

1) basketball teams aren’t divided into different gyms that require coaches to split up.

2) Union county and Johnson central, by example, qualified the equivalent of a basketball roster, but will have coaches pay to coach in the postseason. 

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1 minute ago, GentleBeard said:

1) basketball teams aren’t divided into different gyms that require coaches to split up.

2) Union county and Johnson central, by example, qualified the equivalent of a basketball roster, but will have coaches pay to coach in the postseason. 

Agreed if this were a normal state tourney with 8-10 mats. However, will the tourney be split across two gyms with only 8 man brackets? Will there be more than 3 mats? If one gym, and 3 or even 4 mats, 2-3 coaches should be able to cover things for most of the teams. Even the bigger teams aren't likely to have 3 wrestlers wrestling at once. 

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10 minutes ago, rjs4470 said:

Agreed if this were a normal state tourney with 8-10 mats. However, will the tourney be split across two gyms with only 8 man brackets? Will there be more than 3 mats? If one gym, and 3 or even 4 mats, 2-3 coaches should be able to cover things for most of the teams. Even the bigger teams aren't likely to have 3 wrestlers wrestling at once. 

I agree. Since the basketball team competes together at the same time on the same court, there’s no need for more than 2 coaches on the bench. At the end of the day, it’s about respect and wrestling receives very little.

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2 minutes ago, GentleBeard said:

I agree. Since the basketball team competes together at the same time on the same court, there’s no need for more than 2 coaches on the bench. At the end of the day, it’s about respect and wrestling receives very little.

I know the general perception is the wrestling receives  little respect. Personally, I have experience either as a coach or parent in 6 different KHSAA sports. While wrestling doesn't have a perfect situation, there are sports that get less than wrestling.

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55 minutes ago, rjs4470 said:

I know the general perception is the wrestling receives  little respect. Personally, I have experience either as a coach or parent in 6 different KHSAA sports. While wrestling doesn't have a perfect situation, there are sports that get less than wrestling.

You keep saying this about we should just be thankful because others have worse. That’s not the point that the majority on this Wrestling Forum is saying. Both my girls played HS Basketball. My daughter coaches HS basketball and I can attest that they take 5 coaches and a scorekeeper with them and they sit on the bench and score table for 1 team on the floor with 5 players. The bench is either 7 to 10 players for 1 basket ball floor. Even if you have 1 gym with 3 mats and you happen to have 2 guys up at the same time, that’s 4 coaches that are allowed to be on the floor. I noticed teams that had 8 entries and had 5 coaches on the floor this weekend. Obviously they thought they needed that amount of coaches for their team and chose to be there. If they worked all year with these kids and maybe they work best with certain wrestlers, why shouldn’t they be allowed to coach those kids. Use Union as an example. They have 6/7 amazing coaches. Some work great with lightweights and middle weights. While some work great with upper weights. Which one of those coaches do you think should stay home or sit in the stands for the biggest matches of the kids year? It’s not about the money for these guys but to say “take what your given because other have worse” is a poor argument to stand on the side of the KHSAA side when you’ve been a coach for years and have coached your son and hundreds more. Your not sitting in the stands, and you shouldn’t. You’ve earned your spot my friend!!!!

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4 hours ago, rjs4470 said:

Where does it say coaches are being charged? I see where the team party is limited to two coaches (which makes sense with attendance limits) unless the team has more than 6 wrestlers, in which case you get three.  I also see where coaches passes aren’t accepted, but that’s not unusual for postseason events. But I don’t see where it says coaches with the team party have to pay.  I hope I’m right, because charging coaches would just be flat wrong.

As far as cost of tickets, isn't this roughly what you'd pay for a one day admission to the state tourney in a normal year? No it's not cheap, but it's not out of line of what it's cost in the past. It's also in line with what you'd pay at other state tournaments. When my son's team made it to the state baseball tournament, and advanced to the final four, 3 games+3 days of parking for two people cost us over $100.

First 2 coaches are free and 3 are if you have 6 kids but any other coach on any staff has to purchase a ticket and the message was not to let your coaches get parents tickets before the parents. Which that makes since but your coaches either have to buy what tickets aren’t used from your parents or wait till they go on sell for the public is my understanding. Either way if you have a total of 4 coaches and 3 or 4 kids with 3 mats all of those coaches could or Would be either coaching on a mat or getting a kid ready. Attendance isn’t a problem or there wouldn’t be any open to the public and they would just give them to the extra coaches after all was bought by parents and before they went on sell to the public. It’s a money thing ADs and Administration also have to purchase tickets.

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2 minutes ago, gameface said:

You keep saying this about we should just be thankful because others have worse. That’s not the point that the majority on this Wrestling Forum is saying. Both my girls played HS Basketball. My daughter coaches HS basketball and I can attest that they take 5 coaches and a scorekeeper with them and they sit on the bench and score table for 1 team on the floor with 5 players. The bench is either 7 to 10 players for 1 basket ball floor. Even if you have 1 gym with 3 mats and you happen to have 2 guys up at the same time, that’s 4 coaches that are allowed to be on the floor. I noticed teams that had 8 entries and had 5 coaches on the floor this weekend. Obviously they thought they needed that amount of coaches for their team and chose to be there. If they worked all year with these kids and maybe they work best with certain wrestlers, why shouldn’t they be allowed to coach those kids. Use Union as an example. They have 6/7 amazing coaches. Some work great with lightweights and middle weights. While some work great with upper weights. Which one of those coaches do you think should stay home or sit in the stands for the biggest matches of the kids year? It’s not about the money for these guys but to say “take what your given because other have worse” is a poor argument to stand on the side of the KHSAA side when you’ve been a coach for years and have coached your son and hundreds more. Your not sitting in the stands, and you shouldn’t. You’ve earned your spot my friend!!!!

I'm not saying we should be happy with what we've got. We should always strive to get better. I'm not thrilled that all the coaches that have worked with the kids all year might get excluded. I'm just saying that Covid has resulted in attendance and other restrictions that we haven't seen in the past. I'm also just pointing out that wrestling is not alone in wanting more. And that some of the issues we complain about are present in other sports. And I get the feeling that the wrestling community often takes things more personally, and more often goes into attack mode against the KHSAA. While I'm not completely defending the KHSAA, I also think they've got a tough and thankless job to do, especially in the midst of a pandemic. The decisions they make are not because they "dislike" a sport, and I don't think it's fair to make that characterization. I'm not happy with what we got. I hate the semi state setup. I've already been through a less than ideal football season. I just wrapped up wrestling season. And who knows what baseball season will look like. And my heart still aches for those who lost their seasons last year. There have been tough decisions that have been made over and over again over the last year. I do believe they are doing what they think is best, and I don't believe they are doing it with any ill intent toward any one sport. I'm just sharing what I know about the decision making process, to shed some light on how or why some of these decisions might have been made. I've found that no one is interested in hearing any of that though. I wish everyone luck at semi state and state, and look forward to a more normal 2021-22 season.

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rj.  I am in agreement with you.  Many in the wrestling community have an inferiority complex when it comes to our sport.  I don't believe everything we have is a bed of flowers, but we have earned respect in the sports community.  Ky wrestling has built itself up through the time I have been involved (starting in 1982).  We have moved from less than 70 teams (region 6 only had 7 teams at that time) in the state to now almost 110.  We have moved our state tourney out of a high school (with this years exception) to a larger venue.  You now see a whole crew of KHSAA people at the state tourney instead of a handful.  

Can things be/get better? Of course they can, but it has to be earned, not complained about.  We have to continue to keep our wrestlers involved after graduation.  Coaching, refereeing, running tournaments, promoting, attending.  All this is needed to earn the respect we deserve and need.  Generational wrestlers are the key, keeping families involved after their wrestler has graduated is a must. If you want something done it will come from the mama's and papa's of your wrestlers demanding what they want in unison.  Climb the ladder start with the schools principal, AD, then move up to the regional board of controls member.  Then if all else fails go to Barren and then Tackett. 

So a coach has to pay $20 to get in.  If you have a 4th coach then the other three chip in $5 to get the 4th in.  Not a problem, small potatoes.  Heck maybe your AD will pick up the tab. 

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KHSAA cannot be defended at all for anything, in any sport. We are continually outpaced by IN and OH in all sports. They do nothing to advance any sport and attempt to increase participation. Each sport has its own nuances, that KHSAA is unfamiliar with. At the bare minimum, they could create a group of respected individuals/coaches in wrestling and let them take the lead in planning for the season and postseason. KHSAA is actually a prohibitive factor in the growth of wrestling. KHSAA should not be expected to have all the ideas but they should listen to our stakeholders and then support them. 

It is quite obvious that our wrestling community is very knowledgable about our sport and how it should be ran. However, they get turned away, when they present ideas that are very basic as it relates to organizing our wrestling season. 

Look at the post season this year, where the top 8 will not be reflective of true state placers.

Not allowing a wrestle back at the sectional is also a very basic mistake that could have easily been avoided.

Charging coaches to enter no matter how many they have is ludicrous. 

You can argue a good point that the top team will not be reflective of the best overall team.

Look at last years state tournament, where our community was able to get all mats put up so we could have one mat for the finals but they could not simply move it to the center.

Look at the distribution of teams which can easily be realligned.

Most recently in my conversation with Michael Barren, when asking why we cannot simply move the regional tournament (4) to Sunday so that Moore can participate (All coaches agreed...he lied and said that was not the case) he would not provide an answer and ultimately hung up with me. So we are left with an entire sectional tournament where the brackets are not even full. Most Moore wrestlers could have qualified for sectionals even by defaulting out at the regionals and taking the worst seed for the sectionals. 

What Michael Barren offered as a concession to Moore for not participating in post season...."We told them we will not penalize them for next year for not participating this year." Thanks Mr. Barren. At least the NCAA is letting athletes compete in the NCAA tournament this year even if they did not particpate in their Conference tournament due to COVID issues. 

In my opinion, KHSAA is simply attempting the get thru post seasons by doing the bare minimum. They are not continually striving to improve the quality of their post season over time as the should. We have the knowledge and man power to do so. Look at the Ryle tournament. I think the KY wrestling community would like the opportunity to host a tournament that would be on par with OH and IN but KHSAA prevents that from occuring. That in itself prevents KY from advancing wrestling as a whole. KHSAA does not have to do anything except let our leaders lead.

I hope everyone can continue this momentum into the off season. That is what we can control to advance our sport. 

 

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52 minutes ago, Kylemckune said:

KHSAA cannot be defended at all for anything, in any sport. We are continually outpaced by IN and OH in all sports. They do nothing to advance any sport and attempt to increase participation. Each sport has its own nuances, that KHSAA is unfamiliar with. At the bare minimum, they could create a group of respected individuals/coaches in wrestling and let them take the lead in planning for the season and postseason. KHSAA is actually a prohibitive factor in the growth of wrestling. KHSAA should not be expected to have all the ideas but they should listen to our stakeholders and then support them. 

It is quite obvious that our wrestling community is very knowledgable about our sport and how it should be ran. However, they get turned away, when they present ideas that are very basic as it relates to organizing our wrestling season. 

Look at the post season this year, where the top 8 will not be reflective of true state placers.(Covid season everything is different) 

Not allowing a wrestle back at the sectional is also a very basic mistake that could have easily been avoided.(Covid Season everything is different)(Agree 100% true second should have happened)

Charging coaches to enter no matter how many they have is ludicrous. (You know people take advantage of this especially when limited number of people) I would rather see more spectators than coaches.

You can argue a good point that the top team will not be reflective of the best overall team.(Covid season everything is different)

Look at last years state tournament, where our community was able to get all mats put up so we could have one mat for the finals but they could not simply move it to the center.

(I agree 100%)

Look at the distribution of teams which can easily be realligned.(have you tried to do it I have and it is not easy, you can't look at how good teams are just number of teams and location)

Most recently in my conversation with Michael Barren, when asking why we cannot simply move the regional tournament (4) to Sunday so that Moore can participate (All coaches agreed...he lied and said that was not the case) he would not provide an answer and ultimately hung up with me. So we are left with an entire sectional tournament where the brackets are not even full. Most Moore wrestlers could have qualified for sectionals even by defaulting out at the regionals and taking the worst seed for the sectionals. (I would bet that all coaches agreed but not all AD's or principals, or superintendents) Competing on a Sunday is a no go for many schools)

What Michael Barren offered as a concession to Moore for not participating in post season...."We told them we will not penalize them for next year for not participating this year." Thanks Mr. Barren. At least the NCAA is letting athletes compete in the NCAA tournament this year even if they did not particpate in their Conference tournament due to COVID issues. 

In my opinion, KHSAA is simply attempting the get thru post seasons by doing the bare minimum. They are not continually striving to improve the quality of their post season over time as the should. We have the knowledge and man power to do so. Look at the Ryle tournament. I think the KY wrestling community would like the opportunity to host a tournament that would be on par with OH and IN but KHSAA prevents that from occuring. That in itself prevents KY from advancing wrestling as a whole. KHSAA does not have to do anything except let our leaders lead.(We will never be on par with OH, not enough schools, teams or spectators to warrant such an event), Maybe if we can fill Altech then it will happen. Ohio has 1,360 high schools compared to 538 in KY. Even Indiana has 150 more schools than KY. 

(Ohio has 638 wrestling schools, Indiana has 308 wrestling schools, Ky has 110) Increase the number of teams increases the tournament. 

I hope everyone can continue this momentum into the off season. That is what we can control to advance our sport. 

 

I answered some of the post in Bold.

I truly believe it was unfair for Moore not to participate.  I for one believe that it should have been postponed till Sunday and would have voted to do so. However I and the coaches of teams don't get to make that decision.  I would bet that a principal or AD or superintendent was against it happening. 

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3 minutes ago, grappler-of-old said:

I answered some of the post in Bold.

I truly believe it was unfair for Moore not to participate.  I for one believe that it should have been postponed till Sunday and would have voted to do so. However I and the coaches of teams don't get to make that decision.  I would bet that a principal or AD or superintendent was against it happening. 

I agree with everything you said. I do not expect us to be on par with IN and OH, I just thing they have a good model for KY to strive for. I think the growth in numbers must come from the community. Clearly its fine in certain areas of the state. But Louisville is limited by lack of coaches and Athletic Directors who have zero interest. It has been said already that Louisville coaches who have succeeded did it all by themselves and when those coaches leave, the programs fall flat on their face. Kudos to the coaches who work hard and field full rosters in Louisville. Its a grind and this year it was very challeging since JCPS has not even been in school.

I always enjoy reading your posts. 

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I will say that in my personal experience I find it hard to just chalk all of the “issues” with this post season up to “COVID year”. All of the lack of communication and lack of coordination with the wrestling community/leadership is quite simply exactly what I have witnessed in all of my interactions with the KHSAA over the last decade. As has been stated before, our progress and growth has been in spite of (not because of) the state organization. 

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Charging coaches beyond three seems to have a mixed bag of reactions. I don't like the idea that any coach who volunteers their time to work with our kids would be expected to pay admission to an event they are coaching. Yes, I said volunteers. Regardless if they are paid a small stipend or not, that stipend is not nearly a representation of the hours they put in. We (our school) are paying for our coaches beyond three, but I'm sure they still feel disrespected that their position would require admission. I do understand the position COVID has placed us in, and I know there has to be a cutoff somewhere. I just personally don't like charging coaches (who have met all requirements--Rules Clinic, Sports Safety, CPR, NFHS Learn Course) admission to events to do their job. 

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