Regionals are this weekend!!!

[grappler-of-old 44]

This is what I find appalling. 

Participants per region.

1.  112 (No Ft. Camp)

2.  144 (No Ft. Knox)

3.  80

4.  76

5. 105

6. 146

7.  145

8. ????

Semi-state per region

1/2.   256

3/4   156

5/6  251

7/8  ????

Regions 2, 6 and 7 have almost as many participants in their region as the semi-state 3/4 (Yet they still take top 2 from each region)

I know that KHSAA does not care about comparing competition in regions but they should look at participation in regions when they re-district. 

 

 

[DrBaker 497]

24 minutes ago, grappler-of-old said:

Doing it late gives no advantage.  Since the semi-state will be seeded, and the ability to change weight classes prior to the beginning of the regional tourney. 

Not true. They can still switch around weight classes. They can look at the competing region and move around kids accordingly. 

[DrBaker 497]

40 minutes ago, coachteater said:

Even though region 7 does ours on Sunday before,  we still have the opportunity to move kids during supplemental meeting after weigh in on Friday.  And if say a 152 moves up to 160, we vote as a region on if the wrestler is seedable or not. If yes, we seed them in, if not they go to the last spot. 

These brackets aren’t set in stone? A kid can show up Sat morning and still move up a weight? 

[coachteater 70]

3 minutes ago, DrBaker said:

These brackets aren’t set in stone? A kid can show up Sat morning and still move up a weight? 

 

[FalconWrestling 147]

I’ve been asking for a realignment in regards to regions 3 and 4 for a couple years now. Region 4 has 9 programs in it and only four of those programs have over 10 kids in them. 
 

Region 4 has been bleeding programs for a couple years now- Eastern and Jtown dropped with several other programs on life support

[grappler-of-old 44]

10 minutes ago, DrBaker said:

These brackets aren’t set in stone? A kid can show up Sat morning and still move up a weight? 

This is not new.  As long as I have been in wrestling.  (80s) This has been the case.

I personally don't see a problem.  This mostly helps the small struggling programs, to allow a kid to move up b/c of missing weight.

Who cares if a kid moves up because of the competition?  He still has to beat the kid in front of him. 

Isn't the goal to get the best kids to move on?  If it is someone from a lower wt. class that can move up and still win then let it be so. 

[119Rider 61]

18 minutes ago, grappler-of-old said:

This is not new.  As long as I have been in wrestling.  (80s) This has been the case.

I personally don't see a problem.  This mostly helps the small struggling programs, to allow a kid to move up b/c of missing weight.

Who cares if a kid moves up because of the competition?  He still has to beat the kid in front of him. 

Isn't the goal to get the best kids to move on?  If it is someone from a lower wt. class that can move up and still win then let it be so. 

That is a competitive disadvantage to those schools who set their lineups and hold their kids accountable to that weight. If I am the third best wrestler at 120, and see every bracket come out before me and think I should wrestle at 126 because it gives me an advantage, then that is not good for the sport. Or my coach moves kids around because he thinks they can win a championship if some guys go to a different weight. The other schools did not have the same opportunity because their bracket did not show up until the day of competitions before a decision could be made. 

[rjs4470 103]

11 minutes ago, 119Rider said:

That is a competitive disadvantage to those schools who set their lineups and hold their kids accountable to that weight. If I am the third best wrestler at 120, and see every bracket come out before me and think I should wrestle at 126 because it gives me an advantage, then that is not good for the sport. Or my coach moves kids around because he thinks they can win a championship if some guys go to a different weight. The other schools did not have the same opportunity because their bracket did not show up until the day of competitions before a decision could be made. 

I get the theory, but taking this route a coach would be screwing over at least one kid, and possibly more. Sitting a kid out of region last minute isn't going to win many friends on the team you coach, or of parents. Not only that, these moves wouldn't happen in a vacuum...unless you'd somehow become stronger in all the weight classes affected, why do it? And if that's the case, you probably made that decision to do the move well in advance of region brackets being made.

[coachteater 70]

6 minutes ago, rjs4470 said:

I get the theory, but taking this route a coach would be screwing over at least one kid, and possibly more. Sitting a kid out of region last minute isn't going to win many friends on the team you coach, or of parents. Not only that, these moves wouldn't happen in a vacuum...unless you'd somehow become stronger in all the weight classes affected, why do it? And if that's the case, you probably made that decision to do the move well in advance of region brackets being made.

Ive done it before, but its because their was a hole at upper class. Did it last year. Had 1st year senior at 182 lb . Bumped him to 195 and he made state.

[rjs4470 103]

5 minutes ago, coachteater said:

Ive done it before, but its because their was a hole at upper class. Did it last year. Had 1st year senior at 182 lb . Bumped him to 195 and he made state.

Yep. Had a kid who won a region championship like that a couple years ago. But again, there was a hole in the spot in the lineup. And it allowed another kid a shot to wrestle at region. But we made the bump weeks before region. Most teams with championship aspirations, aren't going to have many holes, and likely wouldn't wait around until the night before region to make this type of decision.

[ukpridewrestler11 276]

1 minute ago, rjs4470 said:

Yep. Had a kid who won a region championship like that a couple years ago. But again, there was a hole in the spot in the lineup. And it allowed another kid a shot to wrestle at region. But we made the bump weeks before region. Most teams with championship aspirations, aren't going to have many holes, and likely wouldn't wait around until the night before region to make this type of decision.

You might be underestimating some teams out there. 

[grappler-of-old 44]

56 minutes ago, 119Rider said:

That is a competitive disadvantage to those schools who set their lineups and hold their kids accountable to that weight. If I am the third best wrestler at 120, and see every bracket come out before me and think I should wrestle at 126 because it gives me an advantage, then that is not good for the sport. Or my coach moves kids around because he thinks they can win a championship if some guys go to a different weight. The other schools did not have the same opportunity because their bracket did not show up until the day of competitions before a decision could be made. 

I think we are talking about 2 different things.  I am only talking about looking at the region and deciding what wt. to change to.  I really don't think that a wrestler/coach would look at the brackets of other regions to see where to go for the state tourney.  Most of those decisions were already made prior to the regional tourney.  With all the data and rankings out there those type of decisions are already made prior to the seed meeting. 

The highlighted part happens all the time in every sport. No different than a baseball coach changing starting pitchers last minute because he sees a bad matchup. 

Happens at state duals all the time. 

[119Rider 61]

I don't think you necessarily need a hole in a lineup this year to do it.  I am the fourth best wrestler at my weight but I have wrestled down and up several times during the year because we wrestled duals. In the other region, two kids came down that beat me to make me the four seed. My coach comes to me and says, I have looked at brackets and our 52, who is a stud, is going 45 and you will go 52 where I will be the 2 seed. We are going to do this the weekend of regionals. Only way I could know who was in that bracket at the other regional is because it came out before my region. If the brackets came out at the same time, every coach would have that decision to make and not just the coach who is building the team for a championship run. I just think that if everyone else can build their brackets and have them open to the public 3 days in advance, then why cant this region follow suit. Every other state has a protocol that is followed, when I coached here in Missouri it was seeding meeting on Thursday prior to district. Brackets were built that day, state did not allow us to share that information with the public until Friday when wrestling started. Its just like the draws for state, no one knows until all districts are finished, then the state comes out or you would have guys forfeiting all over the place to avoid tough wrestlers until the finals.

[coachteater 70]

Each region does different based on what works for them. Region 7 does sunday because we have 18 teams and teams that are up to 2 hours away. Also at times it has took us over 3 hrs to do it. Getting all of us together on a weekend is a mess. But a region like 3 who is smaller and all very close, they can knock it out quick on a week day, then they have their Sunday to rest,  which coaches get little of in season. 

[grappler-of-old 44]

In the years past many many people have complained about brackets not coming out until the day of the tourney.  Now most have put them out and the opposite is happening.  This is the 1st time region 6 has put the brackets out before the region started.  

I personally agree that the brackets should not be put out until the tourney starts.  There are always changes made so why post them.  

[119Rider 61]

1 minute ago, grappler-of-old said:

I think we are talking about 2 different things.  I am only talking about looking at the region and deciding what wt. to change to.  I really don't think that a wrestler/coach would look at the brackets of other regions to see where to go for the state tourney.  Most of those decisions were already made prior to the regional tourney.  With all the data and rankings out there those type of decisions are already made prior to the seed meeting. 

The highlighted part happens all the time in every sport. No different than a baseball coach changing starting pitchers last minute because he sees a bad matchup. 

The baseball analogy doesn't work here. He didn't have to weigh in prior to the game. LOL, also once he wrestles that weight at regionals, the second round he can't change weights because of a bad match up.

[grappler-of-old 44]

I understand what you are saying, just don't agree. I think it is up to the coach.  I personally have not don't think I ever would do this. Actually told Goo Jr. years ago to stay at a weight that was more difficult. 

[DrBaker 497]

None of this jockeying by looking at brackets really matters when they can just move around Sat morning. 

[rjs4470 103]

47 minutes ago, DrBaker said:

None of this jockeying by looking at brackets really matters when they can just move around Sat morning. 

And in most cases, the move can only be up. A move down will usually require more than one weeks planning because of weight management. The other piece to the puzzle, is the most important tournament in all of this is the Region. If you can't find your way out of region, or get a poor seed coming out of region, that's not going to be of much help down the road. You have be able to at least challenge for a region title, in order for any move to make sense. In almost every sport, looking ahead will usually get you in trouble.

[ukpridewrestler11 276]

4 minutes ago, rjs4470 said:

And in most cases, the move can only be up. A move down will usually require more than one weeks planning because of weight management. The other piece to the puzzle, is the most important tournament in all of this is the Region. If you can't find your way out of region, or get a poor seed coming out of region, that's not going to be of much help down the road. You have be able to at least challenge for a region title, in order for any move to make sense. In almost every sport, looking ahead will usually get you in trouble.

Region 3 and 4 can look ahead. Win no matches or even 1 match and you're in the finals of regionals. 

[rjs4470 103]

1 hour ago, 119Rider said:

I don't think you necessarily need a hole in a lineup this year to do it.  I am the fourth best wrestler at my weight but I have wrestled down and up several times during the year because we wrestled duals. In the other region, two kids came down that beat me to make me the four seed. My coach comes to me and says, I have looked at brackets and our 52, who is a stud, is going 45 and you will go 52 where I will be the 2 seed. We are going to do this the weekend of regionals. Only way I could know who was in that bracket at the other regional is because it came out before my region. If the brackets came out at the same time, every coach would have that decision to make and not just the coach who is building the team for a championship run. I just think that if everyone else can build their brackets and have them open to the public 3 days in advance, then why cant this region follow suit. Every other state has a protocol that is followed, when I coached here in Missouri it was seeding meeting on Thursday prior to district. Brackets were built that day, state did not allow us to share that information with the public until Friday when wrestling started. Its just like the draws for state, no one knows until all districts are finished, then the state comes out or you would have guys forfeiting all over the place to avoid tough wrestlers until the finals.

In the case you mention, would the brackets from the other regions really make a difference? And with weight management, a move down likely won't even be possible unless the stud 152 weighed in within a couple of lbs of the 145 limit last week. Most of these moves are going to be moves up, which in many cases will put your wrestler at a disadvantage in size.

[rjs4470 103]

Just now, ukpridewrestler11 said:

Region 3 and 4 can look ahead. Win no matches or even 1 match and you're in the finals of regionals. 

That's a whole other issue, one that i would say is a much bigger problem in the post season than last minute weight changes because of bracket release timing.

[CUTiger184 59]

4 hours ago, grappler-of-old said:

This is what I find appalling. 

Participants per region.

1.  112 (No Ft. Camp)

2.  144 (No Ft. Knox)

3.  80

4.  76

5. 105

6. 146

7.  145

8. ????

Semi-state per region

1/2.   256

3/4   156

5/6  251

7/8  ????

Regions 2, 6 and 7 have almost as many participants in their region as the semi-state 3/4 (Yet they still take top 2 from each region)

I know that KHSAA does not care about comparing competition in regions but they should look at participation in regions when they re-district. 

 

 

Looking like Region 8 will have anywhere from 140-150

[Ranger123 43]

Is Moore HS out for region?  Don’t see them in the brackets. 

[coachteater 70]

4 hours ago, Ranger123 said:

Is Moore HS out for region?  Don’t see them in the brackets. 

Their girls were out of girls state as well