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DrBaker

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I don't mind using track as a baseline for seeding.  But ultimately you need someone to sort through the criteria's.  Someone who has no skin in the game and is more worried about getting it correct and not what team/individual is going to win or place. 

It is one of the reason's I admire Ranger's rankings.  He is more worried about getting it correct all year than giving someone props because they upset an individual.  

Wrestling is one of the few sports where as a group we try and get the best wrestlers to the final competition.  We don't worry if the two schools are across the street from each other or on opposite sides of the state.  We try to get the best kids where they belong.  

Someone smarter than me needs to come up with a cybermetric system for wrestling with a WAR state like baseball.  

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10 minutes ago, rjs4470 said:

True. The order of criteria will make a big difference. And I know many don’t hold region placement in high regard due to the sometimes big variance in overall strength and depth from region to region.

That is why you take the regional champs and come up with who is 1st seed.  Then look at the other champ and see if he should be seeded above the other runner up.   If not he drops to 3rd seed. Ect Ect. 

In theory region 1 could have the 1, 2, 3, and 4 seed while region 2 has the 5, 6, 7, and 8th seed. 

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Trackwrestling is a database.  Bad data in produces bad data out.  If team A lies about results, and Team B is honest, but team B kid has a head to head or common opponent win over Team A, are you going to adjust to correct or just say oh well it is too dangerous to get this right due to COVID?  

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49 minutes ago, J.W. said:

Trackwrestling is a database.  Bad data in produces bad data out.  If team A lies about results, and Team B is honest, but team B kid has a head to head or common opponent win over Team A, are you going to adjust to correct or just say oh well it is too dangerous to get this right due to COVID?  

If team b puts his results in, then the head to head will show on team A regardless of if they put it in. Team A cant hide that. The big thing is at that if the 99% of coaches put their results in, the others cant hide theirs. 

I know in my region many of the coaches keep tabs and watch results of kids. If there is something missing, most of the time its caught and called out in our region meeting. And yes, at least in 2 regions i know there will still be a seed meeting 

Is it perfect? Of course not. But look how far we have come from getting results from newspapers , coaches just having their scorebook and tournament sheets. Having to find coaches numbers and call to try to find out information.  We are far ahead of were we were just 10-15 years ago, and it will continue to improve 

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7 hours ago, coachteater said:

 

Is it perfect? Of course not. But look how far we have come from getting results from newspapers , coaches just having their scorebook and tournament sheets. Having to find coaches numbers and call to try to find out information.  We are far ahead of were we were just 10-15 years ago, and it will continue to improve 

This is exactly one of my points in my previous post. We are well ahead of the game in wrestling now vs 10-15 years ago. (Not big enough, not there yet, not enough schools). My argument is that the coaches can run this event. We shouldn't have a Semi-State than a State. One event, seed it, give all the kids the best opportunity/position, let them wrestle, and make the State Tournament what it should be! It's about the kids! We know how to run this event guys. I'd put Dave Johnson from Ryle up against anyone on the KHSAA board to run any State Tournament. I'm happy that we do have a season, but we are past that. This is the State tournament, where kids are being recruited, college coaches will be in attendance and KHSAA puts this type of an event out there. Amazing!

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15 hours ago, grappler-of-old said:

I don't mind using track as a baseline for seeding.  But ultimately you need someone to sort through the criteria's.  Someone who has no skin in the game and is more worried about getting it correct and not what team/individual is going to win or place. 

It is one of the reason's I admire Ranger's rankings.  He is more worried about getting it correct all year than giving someone props because they upset an individual.  

Wrestling is one of the few sports where as a group we try and get the best wrestlers to the final competition.  We don't worry if the two schools are across the street from each other or on opposite sides of the state.  We try to get the best kids where they belong.  

Someone smarter than me needs to come up with a cybermetric system for wrestling with a WAR state like baseball.  

Have you seen rankwrestlers.com ? It takes all the data from track and uses an algorithm that ranks each weight class in each state based on winning percentage, head to head, and how the wrestlers who the individual competed against performed against other opponents plus how their opponents performed. I think the subscription for one year is 10$. It's similar to WAR in baseball. It's only downfall with this season is it takes the last weight a kid wrestled at, which in a season of duals means kids bumping up. 

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3 hours ago, Tbagnky said:

Have you seen rankwrestlers.com ? It takes all the data from track and uses an algorithm that ranks each weight class in each state based on winning percentage, head to head, and how the wrestlers who the individual competed against performed against other opponents plus how their opponents performed. I think the subscription for one year is 10$. It's similar to WAR in baseball. It's only downfall with this season is it takes the last weight a kid wrestled at, which in a season of duals means kids bumping up. 

I say this every once in a while. It was very close last year. It’s $25 a year. It does have some problems, but it’s very cool. 

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8 hours ago, Tbagnky said:

Have you seen rankwrestlers.com ? It takes all the data from track and uses an algorithm that ranks each weight class in each state based on winning percentage, head to head, and how the wrestlers who the individual competed against performed against other opponents plus how their opponents performed. I think the subscription for one year is 10$. It's similar to WAR in baseball. It's only downfall with this season is it takes the last weight a kid wrestled at, which in a season of duals means kids bumping up. 

How does it rank non track states? I know up here I can't see all events in track for Ohio teams. 

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3 minutes ago, grappler-of-old said:

How does it rank non track states? I know up here I can't see all events in track for Ohio teams. 

It just uses track results. Not very good for Indiana or Ohio, but gives you some idea of where kids are and who they’ve won and lost too. 

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I have been saying for years that the Kentucky just needs to partner with trackwrestling. Missouri does it and it works great. All of our weigh in forms come from track, all matches are recorded in track, and you can purchase the tourney package from them and run your whole tournament for about $125. You have 48 hours to enter info on track regarding weigh ins or you get locked out and cannot print off you next weigh in sheet. Keeps everyone on level playing field as far as weight assessment. All results have to be entered on your kids for them to be able to participate in districts. Track seeds the district and has criteria set by the state. There is no more arguing at a meeting unless you can prove that a false record was put in. Coaches have to bring all weigh in sheets that are signed by the head official of the tournament or dual to the district meeting. I have been running the tournament here in my town for years with track. We can also hook laptops up and point them at the mat and broadcast each mat. It's really a pretty simple thing, but everyone needs to get on board and push for it to happen.

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14 minutes ago, 119Rider said:

I have been saying for years that the Kentucky just needs to partner with trackwrestling. Missouri does it and it works great. All of our weigh in forms come from track, all matches are recorded in track, and you can purchase the tourney package from them and run your whole tournament for about $125. You have 48 hours to enter info on track regarding weigh ins or you get locked out and cannot print off you next weigh in sheet. Keeps everyone on level playing field as far as weight assessment. All results have to be entered on your kids for them to be able to participate in districts. Track seeds the district and has criteria set by the state. There is no more arguing at a meeting unless you can prove that a false record was put in. Coaches have to bring all weigh in sheets that are signed by the head official of the tournament or dual to the district meeting. I have been running the tournament here in my town for years with track. We can also hook laptops up and point them at the mat and broadcast each mat. It's really a pretty simple thing, but everyone needs to get on board and push for it to happen.

Track for the most part does run our season. All weigh in sheets come from track, and all weigh ins must be recorded...Track handles KY's weight management program. Most tourney's are run through track during the season (although not required), and all post season tourney's are run on Track. We pretty much use Track for everything you mention.

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So the hold up is just making it mandated by the state. If they would just come out and make it mandatory for coaches to input information in a timely fashion, which allows for newspapers and radio publications, and even fans have easy access to the information, you can bolster awareness. I do not have to talk to our news reporter after every meet because he knows he can get on track and access all the information he wants within 2 days of the meet. Sounds like there is a lack of consistency with things. Some coaches want it the old school way and some want to be out in front with technology. 

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4 hours ago, 119Rider said:

So the hold up is just making it mandated by the state. If they would just come out and make it mandatory for coaches to input information in a timely fashion, which allows for newspapers and radio publications, and even fans have easy access to the information, you can bolster awareness. I do not have to talk to our news reporter after every meet because he knows he can get on track and access all the information he wants within 2 days of the meet. Sounds like there is a lack of consistency with things. Some coaches want it the old school way and some want to be out in front with technology. 

It is mandated. All results do have to be entered into track. It’s just that not all coached do it in a timely manner. 

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So if it is like you say, track runs both your tourneys and weight management program, then all results should be posted by the coach by simply validating results from the tourney that Track ran. Sounds like this is more of a coach issue then state issue then. If it is what you say, track has a seeding criteria that is built in to it's program. There really is no more seeding meetings because the criteria is as listed by the tourney director, which should be in line with the states criteria for seeding. You might have some schools who have no head to heads but by the time you get to district or semi state surely there will be commons. 

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