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DrBaker

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5 minutes ago, rjs4470 said:

The return to play guidelines issued by the KHSAA in September specifically say 10 feet between mats is required. It's under Event Setup on page 17. This is the biggest issue we've been facing in trying to run wrestling events. This literally cuts the space we have available for mats in half.

 

https://khsaa.org/resources/Covid19/CovidResumptionofSports/ApprovedVersion/Winter/wrestlingcombined.pdf

 

EVENT SETUP

➢ Put a hand sanitizer station mat side. (RECOMMENDED)

➢ Provide sanitizing wipes at the scorer's table. (RECOMMENDED)

➢ Table workers must wear gloves. (RECOMMENDED)

➢ Mats must be cleaned between matches. (REQUIRED)

➢ Spacing between mats must be 10 feet (REQUIRED)

10ft between circles. Coaches had that clarification at beginning of the season 

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7 minutes ago, rjs4470 said:

Unless I'm reading it or interpreting it wrong (which is possible) the return to play guidelines issued by the KHSAA in September specifically say 10 feet between mats is required. It's under Event Setup on page 17. This is the biggest issue we've been facing in trying to run wrestling events. This literally cuts the space we have available for mats in half.

 

https://khsaa.org/resources/Covid19/CovidResumptionofSports/ApprovedVersion/Winter/wrestlingcombined.pdf

 

EVENT SETUP

➢ Put a hand sanitizer station mat side. (RECOMMENDED)

➢ Provide sanitizing wipes at the scorer's table. (RECOMMENDED)

➢ Table workers must wear gloves. (RECOMMENDED)

➢ Mats must be cleaned between matches. (REQUIRED)

➢ Spacing between mats must be 10 feet (REQUIRED)

It’s still doable. The 10ft rule isn’t a deal breaker. 

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1 minute ago, coachteater said:

10ft between circles. Coaches had that clarification at beginning of the season 

Got it. That does change things some.

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1 minute ago, coachteater said:

10ft between circles. Coaches had that clarification at beginning of the season 

I must have missed this, I haven't noticed this at the events I have been too so far this season. I still believe there are facilities that could accommodate this format with multiple gymnasiums or rooms. Yes, it's an additional complication but nothing that can't be overcome.

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As an old timer with kids far past their wrestling days, i have been casually monitoring how wrestling plays out for KY.

Taking the top 2 from semi state to make an 8 man state final is a wild idea.  Wont most regionals be 16 man 2 day events?  Seems like the safety and overnight stuff gets passed over for Regionals.  
 

Next up, if you’ve been involved in wrestling in KY at all now or in the past, one thing should be abundantly clear.  The KHSAA has absolutely no interest in wrestling.  Bare minimum to keep the lights on.  It’s clear with their post season treatment year in and year out.   Whether it be no spotlight, not moving mats, the dime size medals, not allowing a live stream, etc etc.  The state championship is something they have to do and want it done as fast as possible so they can check the box and move on.  Prove me wrong. 
 

Finally, isn’t there a coaches association for KY wrestling coaches?  Did the Coaches association meet, discuss the options they wanted to present, and then present them?  If so, and the KHSAA ignored, why is the coaches association sitting on their hands?  If the above did not happen with the coaches association, then what’s the point of the association?

Is there enough membership in the coaches association to tell the KHSAA to buzz off with their proposal and say “our teams won’t be there, good luck with everything”?  Then host their own tournament?  You may have a handful of schools that still go to regular state, but I bet you the rest would go to a true state representative of the best.  Easier said than done, but why not flex the muscle and see if they call bluff?

Just sharing ideas.  Either way this year has been wild and I’m glad that KY got to wrestle at all.  Seeing as attendance will be minimal, I’m sad to say it will probably be only the 5th state tournament I’ve missed since ‘73.  Hopefully they can get it up on the web for people to watch.  I’d pay. 
 

Good luck to all the rest of the year!

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1 hour ago, bestmistake33 said:

As an old timer with kids far past their wrestling days, i have been casually monitoring how wrestling plays out for KY.

Taking the top 2 from semi state to make an 8 man state final is a wild idea.  Wont most regionals be 16 man 2 day events?  Seems like the safety and overnight stuff gets passed over for Regionals.  
 

Next up, if you’ve been involved in wrestling in KY at all now or in the past, one thing should be abundantly clear.  The KHSAA has absolutely no interest in wrestling.  Bare minimum to keep the lights on.  It’s clear with their post season treatment year in and year out.   Whether it be no spotlight, not moving mats, the dime size medals, not allowing a live stream, etc etc.  The state championship is something they have to do and want it done as fast as possible so they can check the box and move on.  Prove me wrong. 
 

Finally, isn’t there a coaches association for KY wrestling coaches?  Did the Coaches association meet, discuss the options they wanted to present, and then present them?  If so, and the KHSAA ignored, why is the coaches association sitting on their hands?  If the above did not happen with the coaches association, then what’s the point of the association?

Is there enough membership in the coaches association to tell the KHSAA to buzz off with their proposal and say “our teams won’t be there, good luck with everything”?  Then host their own tournament?  You may have a handful of schools that still go to regular state, but I bet you the rest would go to a true state representative of the best.  Easier said than done, but why not flex the muscle and see if they call bluff?

Just sharing ideas.  Either way this year has been wild and I’m glad that KY got to wrestle at all.  Seeing as attendance will be minimal, I’m sad to say it will probably be only the 5th state tournament I’ve missed since ‘73.  Hopefully they can get it up on the web for people to watch.  I’d pay. 
 

Good luck to all the rest of the year!

Yes, there us an association and we had several meetings between our board members and representatives.  Khsaa also reached out to several of us, including myself to get opinions and as what we thought. 

No, we cant simple take our ball and go home, it doesnt work that way. Most people seem to think the KYWCA has tons of power we simply dont have. Do we fight for wrestling and the kids, yes, but in the end its khsaa making decisions.  

There is a lot of rumors and assumptions made. A lot of statements put out with no research and one sided in thinking. We (kywca) were contacted. We did make proposals,  offered suggestions,  offered help...but this is what we got. 

Anyone that knows myself of any of the coaches on the board knows we are deeply passionate about wrestling and fight for our kids and wrestling as a whole. 

While this situation is not perfect,  none every seems to be for some people, there will always be complaints.  I urge you to try to look past the negative and find bright spots and pass that positive energy towards these kids. They are having a terrible year and struggling,  and we are adding more negativity on top. 

I wish everyone the best and anyone is welcome to discuss it more. I love wrestling and will always do my best for the greatest good of wrestling in Kentucky 

Scotty Teater 

President KYWCA

COACHTEATER@YAHOO.COM 

859-797-2105

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36 minutes ago, coachteater said:

Yes, there us an association and we had several meetings between our board members and representatives.  Khsaa also reached out to several of us, including myself to get opinions and as what we thought. 

No, we cant simple take our ball and go home, it doesnt work that way. Most people seem to think the KYWCA has tons of power we simply dont have. Do we fight for wrestling and the kids, yes, but in the end its khsaa making decisions.  

There is a lot of rumors and assumptions made. A lot of statements put out with no research and one sided in thinking. We (kywca) were contacted. We did make proposals,  offered suggestions,  offered help...but this is what we got. 

Anyone that knows myself of any of the coaches on the board knows we are deeply passionate about wrestling and fight for our kids and wrestling as a whole. 

While this situation is not perfect,  none every seems to be for some people, there will always be complaints.  I urge you to try to look past the negative and find bright spots and pass that positive energy towards these kids. They are having a terrible year and struggling,  and we are adding more negativity on top. 

I wish everyone the best and anyone is welcome to discuss it more. I love wrestling and will always do my best for the greatest good of wrestling in Kentucky 

Scotty Teater 

President KYWCA

COACHTEATER@YAHOO.COM 

859-797-2105

Scotty, your efforts are appreciated. Please don't think for a minute that the weight of this decision falls on you, although the decision makers will say that over and over again. An "option" was presented by the KHSAA. The same people who have planned tournaments for years. The same people who had Rupp arena booked and plans made for basketball since 1/19/2021 before most schools were even back to in person instruction or for that matter before some schools were even playing. The lack of care does not come from the coaches or the association. The lack of preparation does not come from the coaches or the association. That lack of preparation and care was shown first hand in the YouTube working session. When there is more time spent discussing the future football playoffs and a survey being sent to each coach and superintendent across the state, then the 8 minutes spent on wrestling, you can see where wrestling stands. There is time for changes to made. Changes that should be made. Changes that the majority are in favor of.

 

 

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I really wish I could have been a fly on the wall at some of these meetings we weren't all privy to.  There has either been a miscommunication or a straight up lack of communication.  Of all the options one could come up with for a post season, this is possibly the weakest.  I wonder if anyone fought for something else and what that "something else" was.  I know a lot of people on the BOC don't spend their times in gyms during the winter watching wrestling, and they definitely don't spend time in the off season in gyms watching the sport, either.  That's why I believe it's no crime to be ignorant of the sport of wrestling, which is, after all, a specialized discipline and one that most people consider to be a uncomfortable, undesireable, and difficult. But, it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion regarding the sport while remaining in this state of ignorance. 

And, comparing an individual sport in the winter in 2021 is not the same as comparing a team sport in the spring in 2020.  COVID has made it difficult, but I  wonder what the data is regarding wrestling this year.

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21 hours ago, ukpridewrestler11 said:

Should let 12 kids into state. The 4 semistate winners get first round bye, and that gives 3rd place kids at semi state the chance to wrestle their way back into discussion. But, it won't happen. I know for a fact Mike "Baron" was proposed an option for state over the phone that allowed 32 man brackets, followed protocol by utilizing 4 different gyms (coaching may or may not have been an issue) and allowed spectators. Second day, the top 8 would have been brought back to finish all in the same gym. Coach Dennis Walls, formerly of Union County, was the one who proposed this idea to Julian Tackett and Mike Barren. They said it was a great idea that could definitely work and in Lexington. What they did was take those four sites and made it into a semi-state and brought on only the top 2 from semi-states. 

We have a BOC that only utilizes athletic directors and pushed out all of the acting wrestling coaches, making it easier for the KHSAA to say screw off, we don't care about wrestling and do it their own way. Have athletic directors that don't have a backbone to stick up for their regions wrestling teams. Every other state tournament has ran normally. Football used Kroger Field. We all know dang well that the Sweet Sixteen will use Rupp Arena, and not be forced to semi-states and only bring in  teams (same ratio they dropped wrestling by) to the actual state tournament. They should be ashamed of themselves.

Dennis laid the plan out to me and I think it would’ve worked!! 
 

the problem is you have a lot of BOC members who’ve said it publicly they simply don’t have knowledge of wrestling. 
 

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for those who do not know or live under a rock, our team is NOT competing. Nothing, nada, nothing but conditioning. 

so with that being said, i see what y’all are all complaining about kids missing opportunities and etc, guess what.... I looked at how tn played out for regions as we usually compete against a lot of teams down here. Guess what, numerous kids who in normal years would be in the top 6 didn’t qualify, 

I don’t agree with only top 2 going at all past semi-state But guess what... that’s what was decided on. Complaining is fine but it will not change anything. That’s what they came up with.

@ukpridewrestler11 spoke of a plan that was given to Khsaa. I knew of that and I also have heard of other plans that were given to them.

Teater and the association has had conversations with the powers that be on occasions. I can confirm this. The association and coaches have all had fought for our sport.
 

BOC has been open with their goals of limiting mitigation and transmission Opportunities of Covid. Take politics out of it, but the facts Khsaa has always been on the side of caution or doing things differently than other states. Look across other sports. Football (kick off rule), wrestling (hydration testing before almost anyone) to name 2 things.

 

to make a difference in the future, talk with your AD about getting your superintendent or AD involved with the BOC. I don’t know how that occurs but having more presence in the future is what is needed. 
 

as much as I hate our program is out for the year, I am happy everyone else is getting an opportunity. Remember, you could be in the situation I am in. 
 

relax and enjoy the season you have because you could very well be in our situation while trying to make sense of everything. 
 

Best of luck to you all! 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, halfhalfhalf said:

BOC has been open with their goals of limiting mitigation and transmission Opportunities of Covid. Take politics out of it, but the facts Khsaa has always been on the side of caution or doing things differently than other states.

Goal: Mitigate risk of COVID

Solution: Host 3 multi team (16 or more) individual tournaments in back to back weeks with no contingency plan, or quarantine time, in case a region or semi-state catches the virus.

Result: Potential for 6 man bracket at state in some weight classes?

This is hardly erring on the side of caution.

If I wasn't able to compete via KHSAA, I'm sure there are other competitions out there.  Or, can you not compete via DoD orders?

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8 minutes ago, GentleBeard said:

Goal: Mitigate risk of COVID

Solution: Host 3 multi team (16 or more) individual tournaments in back to back weeks with no contingency plan, or quarantine time, in case a region or semi-state catches the virus.

Result: Potential for 6 man bracket at state in some weight classes?

This is hardly erring on the side of caution.

If I wasn't able to compete via KHSAA, I'm sure there are other competitions out there.  Or, can you not compete via DoD orders?

Goal of Khsaa was to compete. You watched the BOC meetings. JT stated early on, teams will quarantine and miss. Look at other sports. It happened. Happened in golf for state tourney I believe. The goal was provide a season that will not look like 2019, 2020 and 2022 will not look like 2021. 

 

again, like I stated above... they’ve made it no secret they don’t have the knowledge of wrestling. Not their faults they made the best decision for everyone involved. Which I know a lot don’t agree with but is what it is.

nothing going to change. 


as for not competing there are some things in the works for us to get kids on the mat. 

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16 minutes ago, GentleBeard said:

Goal: Mitigate risk of COVID

Solution: Host 3 multi team (16 or more) individual tournaments in back to back weeks with no contingency plan, or quarantine time, in case a region or semi-state catches the virus.

Result: Potential for 6 man bracket at state in some weight classes?

This is hardly erring on the side of caution.

If I wasn't able to compete via KHSAA, I'm sure there are other competitions out there.  Or, can you not compete via DoD orders?

The contingency plan is no different for wrestling than it is for any other sport. Playoff games were forfeited in other sports. Because of issues with securing venues, moving the tournaments beyond the times scheduled has never really been an option. I thinks that's why it took so long to announce a plan. I'm certain, they weren't sitting on their hands, procrastinating time away. Putting events together that require a lot of competitors and support to hold, in a time where every venue is limiting numbers, is not an easy undertaking. Unless you are on the board, you have no idea the logistical and likely political challenges they are facing to make this happen.

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5 minutes ago, halfhalfhalf said:

again, like I stated above... they’ve made it no secret they don’t have the knowledge of wrestling. Not their faults they made the best decision for everyone involved. Which I know a lot don’t agree with but is what it is.

It's not their fault they are ignorant regarding wrestling, yet possess the knowledge to make the best decision for everyone in the process? How can you make the best decision for everyone involved while maintaining a state of ignorance/lack of knowledge (admittedly so)?  

 

It would have been nice to utilize common sense and not put kids in a position where more exposure to COVID could potentially take place right before the culminating event. 

 

Nevertheless, we will compete in one month in a place yet to be determined to qualify for a state tournament who's place is yet to be determined.  

 

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10 minutes ago, rjs4470 said:

The contingency plan is no different for wrestling than it is for any other sport. Playoff games were forfeited in other sports. Because of issues with securing venues, moving the tournaments beyond the times scheduled has never really been an option. I thinks that's why it took so long to announce a plan. I'm certain, they weren't sitting on their hands, procrastinating time away. Putting events together that require a lot of competitors and support to hold, in a time where every venue is limiting numbers, is not an easy undertaking. Unless you are on the board, you have no idea the logistical and likely political challenges they are facing to make this happen.

I'm sure they face political challenges.  That's probably a major issue.  I'm just not one who really cares what the challenges are.  I believe there's a solution for every problem, and the solution doesn't need to be worse than the problem itself.  I've been to middle school tournaments in this state that have over 300 competitors.  I know what's possible.  I've seen what's been accomplished. That's my frustration with their most recent proposal.  

 

Comparing wrestling to other sports is tough.  There are no wrestling "games".  And, in the qualification process, you may have some of your team qualify, and others do not.  Could you imagine seeing a football team without a secondary or maybe a defensive line...or quarterback?  Or maybe basketball team with only 2 players? Or maybe a baseball team with 6 players?  That's the equivalent and why you shouldn't compare a team sport with an individual sport.  That's also why you look to the future, evaluate risk, and make plans accordingly to mitigate those risks, while preserving the integrity of the culminating event.  

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OK more GOO thoughts.

1.  We are not going to boycott.  Coaches don't have that power, they would need their Principal, AD, and Superintendent on their side.

2.  Getting "your" superintendent on the BOC probably still wont help. (How many Superintendents actually know wrestling?)

3.  The 10 ft. between mats was a rule made by KHSAA.  Surely they change the rule or make an exception. (I know, I know don't call me Shirly)

Just a side note. I find it funny how for years people have wanted to seed the state tourney, now it sounds like they may be seeding and people are now back peddling. (I have always been against seeding the state tourney) And for years I have been told that wrestling is a TEAM sport and NOT and individual sport (which I have always claimed it to be individual). Now the argument is that you can't compare wrestling an individual sport to other team sports.  

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GOO, just to be clear, I’m in no way back peddling on the seeding component of this mess. Just very concerned with the statement of “let track seed it” approach as that can mean a LOT of different things. And given that way too many coaches around the state refuse to keep track up to date I am very curious what the seeding process will be. 

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1 hour ago, Ranger123 said:

GOO, just to be clear, I’m in no way back peddling on the seeding component of this mess. Just very concerned with the statement of “let track seed it” approach as that can mean a LOT of different things. And given that way too many coaches around the state refuse to keep track up to date I am very curious what the seeding process will be. 

I think its a little sketchy as well to let track seed it. BUT this could be the provision that pushes coaches to update everything. 

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https://khsaa.org/02-19-21-board-of-control-updates-status-of-winter-championships/

Edited!!!!

There was miscommunication in email with Mr Barren. He is not 100% on if 1v4 or 2v3 and is going to contact Tackett and have him clarify because of the wording. I will update as soon as i know.

I apologize for miscommunication 

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33 minutes ago, coachteater said:

https://khsaa.org/02-19-21-board-of-control-updates-status-of-winter-championships/

 

After reading, I got clarification from Mike Barren. Semi state will be seeded based off trackwrestling after region (not 1v4  2v3). Then again at final 8, trackwrestling will be used to seed. 

 

Hmmmm, seeded state tournament.  So now will everyone thats wanted this for years be happy? 

That’s not much clarification. “Track seeding” can mean a lot of things. And yes I’m all for it if it is done reasonably. 
 

And as for keeping track up to date KHSAA needs to (cue broken record) treat us like most of the major sports and force coaches hands. Most sports have result reporting requirements with penalties. Wrestling should be no different. But maybe that’s part of our problem. We haven’t shown that we are grown up enough to do the simple things. 

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5 minutes ago, Ranger123 said:

That’s not much clarification. “Track seeding” can mean a lot of things. And yes I’m all for it if it is done reasonably. 
 

And as for keeping track up to date KHSAA needs to (cue broken record) treat us like most of the major sports and force coaches hands. Most sports have result reporting requirements with penalties. Wrestling should be no different. But maybe that’s part of our problem. We haven’t shown that we are grown up enough to do the simple things. 

Amen!!!

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Just now, rdc517 said:

Has there been any info about regional, semi state, or state sites?  Maybe through wrestling coach back channels?

Region sites remain the same. They are finalizing semi state and state sites.  Should be out very soon. 

 

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1 hour ago, CUTiger184 said:

I think its a little sketchy as well to let track seed it. BUT this could be the provision that pushes coaches to update everything. 

Everything is updated by the end of the year.  Coaches must turn in all individual season record for each wrestler from track at region.  

My guess is that some don't update so the public can see it, till the end of the year when they have to turn it in. 

Some coaches believe this is helpful for their team.  I don't think it makes a difference one way or another, and don't mind if they don't update for the public.

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